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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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sure measure it, that would be great... USING HOLE CENTER TO HOLE CENTER
from the first hole center(of the 3 in front) to the last hole center on the 2 holes of the rear wing, don't include pointed ends or actual ends of
metal. mine is about 615mm (roughly 24 1/4" original stock)
and while you are at it,
from the first hole center(of the 3 in front) to the first hole center of the MAST , stock should be around 215mm (roughly 8 1/2") , mine is about
203mm and i actually would like it shorter to control rate and reduce sensitivity of lever action
AND the distance between the mast bolt holes! just for curiosity, center to center i am at 58mm, (roughly 2 1/4")
thanks KK should be close, cool!
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
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<==o=o=o====o=o==========o=o=o==>
<......wing..........mast........................stab......>
<16|45|45|-120-|57|-------323-------|45|45|16>
From the start of the aluminum fuse to center of first wing hole: 16mm
45mm: wing and stab holes
120mm: last wing hole to mast hole
57mm: mast holes
323: last mast hole to first stab hole
All holes measured at centers.
Total fuselage length: 782mm incl tips, 715mm of aluminum fuselage.
I hope my ASCII art works up there cos it makes the most sense to me.
The stock one was about 20mm shorter than the new one in the shortest position...
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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thanks man!
hey you got three holes on the rear , i have only seen 2 holes, and the bolt pack only has 2 as well, maybe you got lost in your art work symmetry...
210mm first wing hole to first mast hole , i am at 203mm my stock meassure harvest was 215mm ...feel confident thats solid and as close as it needs
to be for the purpose.
mast holes at 57mm, i put mine at 58mm i had to go with easier symmetry!
first wing hole to last wing hole is 635mm (if there are only 2). i am at 615mm ...20mm shorter
i would say its pretty close , thanks for the details it confirms alot. the images i have of a stock fuselage only has 2 rear wing holes, the
fuselage sold seperately like the longer one you have, or on newer units maybe be different, anyway all good info
so you liked the shorter setting ? for ride comfort at speed, speed control, stability, sensivityfor rise control??
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
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That's the extended fuselage: it offers two settings for the stab. The "shorter" setting is about 20mm longer than the OEM. So sounds like you're
perfect for the OEM.
The original is orange anodized, the extended is black...
http://liquidforcekites.com/product/foils/longer-aluminium-f...
Comes in carbon too, for a whole lot more bucks.
I would like to try the foil with the mast moved closer to the TE of the wing...but can't be bothered making anything 
...
I'm still puttering around at comfortable speed, rather than chasing top end
I'm chicken! Longer setting *seems* more reactive to swells under the water, but is slower to react, so there's a lot more porpoising. At least,
that's what I remember. I'm going to try it on the longer setting again tomorrow to be sure.
Might have something to do with the wings, too!
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Yeah I think moving the mast is by far the most sensitive root of feel and sensitivity .
Thanks for the #'s ....I will do a fuse' in 3/4" and take a ride
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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making head way on shaping. got about hour on wings and an hour on the mast . so depiste decent couple sessions , things are moving along, at
phoil speed!
may polish, but feeling kinda done. pics tomorrow if wind is down.
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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supersession ATB/water... phoiled progress.
and looks to be the case for couple days if not into weekend, man i am so grateful for dropping the vaccum bag direction!
maybe friday morning knock out the 3/4 " fuselage , bolt and ---->RIDE! looks like a beach blast finish will have to do
heres the last off the shaping mast front/topplate and wings
mast and plate before shape
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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and kinda done now, 3/4" fuselage , everything squeezed ...soon as wind sets up. might as well let the elements finish it.
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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Close! I'd refine the wings a touch. You can thin out the tips. I'll try to take a picture tomarrow.
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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Close! I'd refine the wings a touch. You can thin out the tips. I'll try to take a picture tomarrow.
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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It's half thickness at tapered end over 2/3 of area, if its TOO draggy and slow . Today is the last day I'm gonna touch it. It's all ride now. I'm
ready to give a go! Thanks for the help man!
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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Not that sure on how thin to go on tips , just went and looked at old windsurf fins , definitely could take down a fraction more
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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I think your mast attach ment location might be better than mine. Mine might be too far forward.
But here's a few pics of mine.
  
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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thanks for the images. the rear is there . front wing i will reduce more esp. last 1/5 of chord and tip.
did water test in pool with wings and fuelage, man that joker darts out of my hand! effortless forward motion. reconfirmed fuselage balance point
for pitch and yaw. held in the right spot (where the bolt are)its effortless to control, anywhere else requires more control effort.
will add one more round of finish, ready to squeeze and ride. thanks again
wind is down , looks like deluxe finish may be within reach
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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I've been thinking about my set up. I think I need to move my mast back on the fuselage. It's super hard to control pitch at speed. Fully rideable but
super hard to adjust pitch corrections. I thought it was just part of the game. When I made my setup, I just thought forward was better. So I'm going
to remount the mast back to your location.
This now brings up a second question that I may have not done correctly:
When I remount the mast to the fuselage, where is the front wing in relation to your foot stance?
I mounted mine with the front wing directly under my stance (between my two feet). Now I'm not sure that is where yours is?
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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Now I'm not sure... I was just on the "other forum" and was watching a video on the slingshot foil. They have their mast mounted right next to the
front wing also. Now I'm back to being confused.
Does it matter that much?
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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you have to add lever action of board mount not just mast point on fuselage. esp. with hi AR front wing
your stance, weight, position and technique all add into YOUR position over the power generating position of the foil.
small wing in rear can push more balance forward(also the reverse as well) , and some +/_ pitch added to rear can compensate lift if needed.
staright, square and balanced, add drag to slow things down those are the basics. a ton tweaking to every element can change ride, speed and
handling.
the only avoidance is tail heavy, tail heavy bird won't fly.
a learning foil seems by my understanding to have centralized balance so a decent effort to foil is needed , and control is forgiving .
in the picture considerable effort to get that unit to foil at decent speed, the super short mast even reduces foil action even more . being so
close to power generation requires large lever control , hence its rearward mount on the board.
you have to choose one and go with a reasonablily matched proper set up or you are in for struggle, so it seems .
all squeezed and locked! wind is down so few rounds on finish
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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Thanks Phree,
I actually can foil my ride, but I'm still full rookie stage. I find that I can foil decent, but when my speed builds I don't seem to control the slow
steady increase in lift the foil keeps making, and I break the surface. I'm using one strap in front only for the start up. But once up, don't need
it. But I think my stance is just a tiny bit to far back. I'm going to leave my mast/fuselage alone, but I just this morning moved the mast back an
inch on the board.
I haven't foiled since the end of last season. Winter here is pure surf plus started a new job, no kite. But now you have me pumped to get out on the
foil again!
Here's my ride now after moving mast back an inch:
 
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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if your a lighter rider YOU definitely will need to be froward on that to keep it down , the tail of the board prolly not doing much but skyjacking
you at speed.
the rate of lift only increases as speed increases AND sensivity . a paper shim at front of rear wing may reduce high speed ramping .
looks to me the setup would be blistering fast IF you could keep it down! your back foot would be really close to mast point.
the fuselage/ mast is set for speed , the board/mast relationship is set to learn with more centralized balance.
good move on putting it back, it will give MORE leverage on keeping it down
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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somewhere in polishing
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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how it all connects...
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
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So.... I'm just impressed your wife lets you put it ontop of the piano! Looks great.
I rode mine today. Moving the mast rear was a very good thing. Much less touchy to the kangaroo thing. Haven't ridden it in 9 months so was re
learning abounch today. But having more authority over my front foot gave my back foot more ability to steer.
Decent day.
Good luck!
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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cool man glad you had a good go!...i may get out tomorrow.
...its my piano and is more than just a piano.
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
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Location: Shiga, JAPAN
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Quote: Originally posted by Flyfish  | Now I'm not sure... I was just on the "other forum" and was watching a video on the slingshot foil. They have their mast mounted right next to the
front wing also. Now I'm back to being confused.
Does it matter that much?
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Doesn't matter much, it's how it all balances out in the end. Mast closer to the wing TE is less torque on the fuselage, which can bend. I know, cos I
bent my old fuse...but still rode it for a dozen sessions.
I think you need more of a tear-drop shape on the mast, but I'll bet you'll ride it just fine. Just get out and try it!
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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missed the breeze today, got more coming. gonna get a ride this week .
KK its gonna roll as is. i just want to get out on it! it'll only tweaked if theres a problem, hopefully get out ASAP
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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after watching the houtson kiteboarding vid on grigirib's thread posted by rtz, i became more weight conscious of my build. put on the scale
12.2lbs!
definitely the battle ax!
i think the SS hover was 11.2 so not too far out of the herd but somehow it may help with the introduction rides , hopefully ....TODAY!
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grigorib
Posts: 459
Registered: 2-15-2012
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The trailing edge of the mast is the axe! I saw a foil flip in the air in front of a guy slicing the front line OFF and sending the kite down in a
"funny" way.
And that damn fuselage spear...another guy showing a mark on his ankle where it penetrated the skin right to the bone.
It takes building a mental block to not kick under water. And helmet, floatation west...armor pretty much
The setup weight feels a lot when you carry it all in and out the water. Once floating it feels extremely light. Bulky anyways though.
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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no doubt !, cautious on PPE.
recut the front wing tips and add taper th complete knife edge . blasting 9m TT session yesterday ! way to rough frontside for first a foil go .
today was zero, maybe tomorrow,
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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and forgot to add, its been in/out of my truck fun box ( w/bed cover)for a week....and the wing with board slide into place, is too tall for rigid
cover to close and lock!
so during tip and taper remediation, i clipped 1" of wing span from front wing. so now at 22 1/2" wing span. stock LF is at 21 1/2"
that was a REAL issue on the "session ready" situation it needs to be in to get used...but all phits tidy in fun box now. hopefully sets up tomorrow
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
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I disassemble mine every time, as I've no place to store it and can't really be bothered hauling it around set up. The bag that came with it is about
the size of a skinny TT, so no really hardship . . . with practice, it takes about 5 minutes to set up.
The added bonus is that--hopefully--I'll avoid it welding itself back together when I ride the ocean 
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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