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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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Before you ask, What kite Should I buy?
First WELCOME to the wonderful world of powerkiting. If your question is
"What kite should I buy?"
The answer is "it depends." What you will be asked by most of us is,
Where are you?
Where do you fly? (or want to)
What kiting experience do you already have?
What aspect of powerkiting are you interested in? (Buggying, Landboarding, Snow Kiting Kite Surfing, Jumping, etc..)
What are your local winds like? (Averages, gustiness etc.)
How much do you weigh? (Not trying to be personal, Bigger people are less likely to be overpowered by marginally bigger kites and most of us want to
start you on a kite that will teach you without hurting you.)
What kind of budget are you looking at? (just to narrow choices)
On average, the most popular answer if you are looking to START in the sports of power kiting is a 2-3M Fixed Bridle Kite. It can be flown in low
winds as a static kite to learn on and will most likely be a kite you keep as your moderate to high wind kite as you progress in the sport..
If you are a stunt flyer, let us know up front because you might not be happy with a 3M kite if you want to do spins and dive stops. That's where
kites like the Spiderkite Smithi most often enter into the conversation.
If you want to jump, STOP, wait a sec and listen to the wisdom of the advanced kiters here. To safely jump you'll want a kite at least 5M square with
some float so you can land safely. DO NOT be tempted to just start with a 5M kite and think you can jump.. You will get yourself hurt or worse. The
advice here is still a 3M or so kite and once you know EVERY characteristic of how the wind affects you holding the handles, then move up and seek the
advice/counsel of our experience Kite jumpers. (Skydiving reasoning seems applicable here. It doesn't take a parachute to sky dive.. It takes a
parachute to sky dive twice.)
(Disclaimer: These lists are not by any means comprehensive. They are merely first-hand examples or kites I've seen highly recommended by a few
more experienced fellow PKF members.
Sport Kite
Most often these are 2 line foils and are sized by span (2.2 being 2.2 meters wide) This is the kite you find in stores very often and is a great
first exposure to foils and a great place to start if you've not flown a multiline kite before.
Examples of Sport Foils are:
*HQ Symphony (Multiple sizes)
*Prism Snapshot (Multiple Sizes) ** the 2.5 size is already bridled for four lines
Trainers
These are often Sports kites geared towards learning to fly on a bar. Sometimes they are sized like sport kites others are sized in Square meters like
Power Kites.
Examples of Trainers are:
*HQ Hydra
*HQ Kites Rush Pro
*Ozone Imp Trainer
*Peter Lynn Impulse TR
Fixed Bridle Power Foils
These are 4 line kites measured in Square Meters and are geared towards pulling and/or lifting. These are powerful kites and the dangers here are
complicated by new fliers assuming the sizing is consistent with the Sport variety. It is not!! A small power foil can really do a
lot of damage to you if you aren't ready for the big difference in pull. These kites are most often used for buggying but are not limited to that
aspect of the sport.
Examples of Fixed Bridle Foils are:
*HQ Beamer
*HQ Toxic
*Peter Lynn Hornet
*Peter Lynn Reactor
*Peter Lynn Voltage
*Skydog Powerfoil
*Buster Soulfly
*Ozone Flow
*Ozone Octane
*Flexifoil Bullet
*Flexifoil Rage
Depower Kites
These are multiline kites most often used for Board Sports, WaterSports and Buggying. They are able to be depowered (or sheeted) and are flown with a
control bar. A fixed Bridle kite on a bar does not make it a Depower kite) Depowers are generally larger than Fixed bridles for the same conditions
and tend to be able to ride out gusts more gracefully. Depowers also tend to be more expensive due to materials and control mechanisms. They also tend
to have a wider wind range for a given size than their FB counterparts so a single DP kite may cover wind ranges you'd need multiple FB kites to
navigate comfortably.
Examples of Depower kites are:
*HQ Apex
*HQ Montana
*HQ Matrixx
*Ozone Access
*Ozone summit
*Ozone Frenzy
a few other notes
Another aspect of kite design is open or closed cell and LEI (leading edge inflatable) Open cell kites are typically limited to land activites and are
inflated by the wind. Land them in water and they stay in the water until you rescue them..
Closed cell kites are either inflated via pump or inflated by the wind while flying but have valves or baffles to prevent them from deflating. If
landed on the water, they simply float until relaunched.
LEIs have the similar water launch capabilities as closed cell foils but are inflated with a pump and are generally single skin designs for
simplicity. Thanks goes out to Feyd for pointing out some items I overlooked. edited 5-22-15
As for the bottom line, On average, the most popular answer if you are looking to START in the sports of power kiting is a 2-3M Fixed Bridle Kite. It
can be flown in low winds as a static kite to learn on and will most likely be a kite you keep as your moderate to high wind kite as you progress in
the sport.. The suggested starting size can go up or down based upon your weight , experience and local flying conditions..
Wear a helmet and above all BE SAFE!!..
The NPW Addendum courtesy of ssayre4-15-16
NPW or Nasa ParaWing Kites
The Nasa ParaWing was invented by Francis Rogallo in 1961 as part of research as a means of space capsule recovery. Since then it has been modified
into several variations of steerable kites. They are a fixed bridle kite that are flown using 2 lines or 4 lines. The exception being the Nasa Star
which is flown as a 2 line kite but utilizes a 3rd line that will partially or totally collapse the nose to reduce or kill power when used with an
adapted 3 line bar.
This style of kite has some distinct advantages and disadvantages over traditional foil power kites.
The advantages: They are single skin which allows them to fly in light wind and maintain their shape during lulls in the wind. They sit deep in the
window providing tractor like pulling power to keep you moving. They fly very well on any length of line allowing them to be used for "streetkiting"
in confined areas. They are very quick turning when flown in either 2 line or 4 line configuration allowing you to place the kite where you need it in
the window quickly. They are comparatively inexpensive to their fixed bridle foil counter parts. They are a solid choice and provide reliable power
for inland fliers looking to get in motion.
The disadvantages: They have a smaller window which does a couple things. Their upwind ability is less than traditional fixed bridle foils and they
are not as fast flying through the window. This coupled with smaller window makes them a poor choice for someone looking for a kite that is exciting
and fun for static flying. They generate low lift which is either good or bad depending on what you want to do. If not kept moving in light wind they
can have a tendency to fly backwards. They are not readily available commercially and must be purchased from a kite maker or purchased from Born-Kite,
the only known manufacturer in Germany.
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888huskers
Posts: 33
Registered: 6-21-2014
Location: Nebraska
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying the winds 
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Thumbs up for a good post 
Two Line: .5 Mighty Bug (For me and my daughter) - intothewind.com
HQ: Beamer V 2M - (first 4 line before I knew about PKF and Big Mike's Kites) intothewind.com
PL: Twister III 5.5M - bigmikeskites.com
PL: Hornet III 3M bigmikeskites.com/dakitez.com
Wheels: None - Approved by "The Boss", discussing options with Big Mike
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WackyWindsurfer
Posts: 32
Registered: 5-6-2013
Location: Scheveningen Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: no wind... no fun!
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Second that!
I feel a sticky coming up...
PL: Vibe II 1.9m | Twister IIr 4.1m
PL Twinskin: Guerilla II 15m | Venom II 10m & 13m| Scorpion 10m | Synergy 10m, 12m & 15m
Ozone: Ignition 2.5m | Flow 2m & 3m
Born NASA Star 2: 1.5m | 2.5m | 4m | 5.5m | 7m
FlySurfer: Peak2 12m
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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Thanks. It wasn't too long ago that I was askng the same question. Just wanted to save someone who might be a lurker some time.
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RedSky
Posts: 1722
Registered: 9-7-2009
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Good post. It might be worth suggesting a new category. Maybe something
titled "The Most Frequently Asked Questions" to which your post should be placed.
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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Agreed. A FAQ would be great! I've spent hours digging through old threads trying to be educated. This would save a lot of time, and be more organized
with the common asked questions.
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
 
http://hint.fm/wind/
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soliver
Posts: 3913
Registered: 12-15-2011
Location: somewhere, far, far away
Member Is Offline
Mood: sleepy
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Let's also go so far as to say, typically, some of the best kites to start out with in the 2-4m range are:
Peter Lynn Hornet
Peter Lynn Twister
HQ Beamer
PKD Buster Soulfly
Ozone Octane
Flexifoil Sting
Flexifoil Rage
I'm sure there are others I just can't think of right now.
These makes and models all offer a strong pull, good response to input, and very good stability, all of which you will want when learning kite
control.
Remember that in the beginning, the point is to learn how to CONTROL the kite, not just to SURVIVE the kite.
I'm going to take a nap now
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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Know your limits and then expand on them..
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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gotta pheed the lurkers ...they're just days away from greatest ....see one , do one , PRO! ohyeah!
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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It's almost always the first question.. It was my first question here..
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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and still gets asked frequently..
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Feyd
Posts: 2956
Registered: 1-3-2009
Location: Norther New England
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This would make really needed sticky for sure.
I would add that depower kites have a broader wind range than their FB counterparts. A given depower will cover the wind range of 2-3 fixed bridles
depending on design and model.
I'm noticing a lack of kite skiing/snowkiting mentioned as an aspect. 
There may be a need to mention depower differences and common applications. Such as LEI/Closed cell/Open Cell.
Short list on depower options compared to FB. Ozone Summit, or Frenzy would be good additions. Flysurfer Peak, Speeds? Peter Lynn Arcs. Some flavor
of LEI as well?
Maybe in the trainer kites it would be worth mentioning Depower trainers like the Flysurfer Viron or HQ Rush V School 300.
Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, Flysurfer, HQ kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 603-986-2784
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  | This would make really needed sticky for sure.
I would add that depower kites have a broader wind range than their FB counterparts. A given depower will cover the wind range of 2-3 fixed bridles
depending on design and model.
I'm noticing a lack of kite skiing/snowkiting mentioned as an aspect.
There may be a need to mention depower differences and common applications. Such as LEI/Closed cell/Open Cell.
Short list on depower options compared to FB. Ozone Summit, or Frenzy would be good additions. Flysurfer Peak, Speeds? Peter Lynn Arcs. Some flavor
of LEI as well?
Maybe in the trainer kites it would be worth mentioning Depower trainers like the Flysurfer Viron or HQ Rush V School 300. |
Good points indeed.. I edited the original post accordingly.
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Feyd
Posts: 2956
Registered: 1-3-2009
Location: Norther New England
Member Is Offline
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Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, Flysurfer, HQ kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 603-986-2784
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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FiniteState
Posts: 16
Registered: 8-26-2015
Location: Redmond, WA
Member Is Offline
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This was a helpful post for a newbie like me. What exactly is it about the design or bridling of a fixed bridle or depower kite that makes it such?
When you attach a FB kite on a bar, how does it behave differently from a depower kite on a bar? Thanks.
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abkayak
Posts: 2271
Registered: 1-7-2012
Location: a.b. NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: loving life and becoming wise in simplicity
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Fb and Dp kites are two different designs so the bars are designed to do what each of the kites needs...1st most of us agree that a fb is better off
on handles, put it on a bar and it loses some of its performance...put it on a bar and the power lines are on the outside brake lines attach to the
center and all the bar will do is turn the kite...a Dp kite will have the power lines run thru the center of the bar and attach to the flyer, the in
and out motion of the bar will change how the kite catches the wind in the air, think the angle of attack of the kite...so you controll how much power
the kite is generating...than brake or steering lines attach on the outside or the bar to controll turning
Ok who's gonna add to that?
US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6
Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Get in my buggy!
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"Add" abkayak? Heck no. Just compliment you on a nice succinct explanation. I had all these same questions when I was a newbie; funny how we all
seem to go through a similar progression with similar questions.
@FiniteState - my humble suggestion to you is to fly FB off of handles. I liken a bar for FB is like giving the kite a lobotomy. If you have the
urge to get a bar in order to hook into a harness, I would suggest you get a DP kite to go along with it. I am a fan of single skin kites myself but
they are a somewhat special breed. There has been a lot of great write ups on PKF supportive of the Ozone Access DP kite. I've no personal
experience but it seems extremely forgiving and stable, likely good things for a first DP.
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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RedSky
Posts: 1722
Registered: 9-7-2009
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Its a hot summers day and your driving along in your car with your arm out the window. You feel resistance and lift as you tilt your hand away from
flat. Its the same thing with a depower kite, you can alter its angle of attack through the bar to produce more or less power/lift.
Now stick your hand out the window again but this time pretend you cannot move it, this is what we call a fixed bridle kite (FB).
The power of the kite or its angle of attack is set at the factory where its made.
Using a bar on a fixed bridle kite cannot depower it as mentioned above, the kite is set at the factory through the use of bridling.
You can use a bar on a fixed bridle kite where you have a pulley operating the brake lines that make turning much easier but not all FB kites like it.
There is a short incomplete list of suitable kite and bar combos on this site.
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FiniteState
Posts: 16
Registered: 8-26-2015
Location: Redmond, WA
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Thanks, RedSky, abkayak, and Windstruck. Is the pulley setup the same thing as what I've read as "UDS" - universal depower system?
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RedSky
Posts: 1722
Registered: 9-7-2009
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No not the same. The bar & lines I refer to are the { Flexifoil traction extreme bar } which allow the brake lines to run free through a pulley to aid in turning and it works very well with the
Flexifoil Blade series and I imagine many other brands too.
If memory serves, the UDS is something completely different. It requires that you send your fixed bridle kite off to an expert tuner who replaces the
bridle for one that can be adjusted on the fly. They will offer a UDS bar as part of the package.
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
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Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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OK, I give.. Who wants to write the NPW addendum?
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Dayhiker
Posts: 77
Registered: 3-2-2014
Location: Highlands of Virginia
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Mood: "I live back in the woods, you see... A woman & the kids, & the dogs & me" Bocephus
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This great post should be the welcome screen for new viewers somehow. Many forums have jargon that is difficult to sort through when you first start
reading them. As an example "LEI" is used frequently in posts but as only an experienced sport kite flyer I had "Know Eye Deer" of what it meant in
the Power Kite World. Overall this is a great forum IMHO. I am still trying to learn modern texting initialisms. I even made my own up for fun.
SHBKF
PS And now I finally understand the depower brake set up a little bit.
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super_squirrel
Posts: 3
Registered: 12-7-2015
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Thanks for this. I am worried as I bought my kites from ebay. found a great deal on a Venom II 13m on ebay and jumped on it. But there is no way I am
starting on that...
So i got a 4m Ozone access which i found for cheap but still it seems everyone is saying that might be to large to start with. I am 250lbs so maybe
its ok?
I do have a tiny (insignificant) experience when i had a few kite surfing lessons when i was 14/15. But never really carried it through.
Im looking to Landboard for now as I am based in London.
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Windstruck
Posts: 3338
Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: St George, UT, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Get in my buggy!
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Super squirrel - great to see you taking advantage of this thread. It helped me a great deal too at first. There are different styles of kites out
there as you've been reading about. The Access is a De-Power kite or DP. It has a control bar and a set of pulleys up at the kite. When you slide the
bar away from you you work the pulleys up at the kite and effectively decrease the pull or lift of the kite, "de powering" it. The 3m kite size you
see getting recommended the most is a so-called Fixed Bridle kite or FB. The bridle are the little lines coming right off the kite and they are
"fixed" without pulleys so you can't depower the kite in the same way as you can a DP kite. FB kites are typically flown off of handles.
While there will certainly be exceptions to what I'm about to say, in general, a give square meter size FB kite has a heck of a lot more pull than the
same size DP. At 250 lbs you are plenty big enough to handle a 4m FB, but you still might want to get a 3m FB for its flight characteristics. A 3m FB
is generally pretty zippy in the air while a 4m FB tends to lumber along a bit more. Again, generalities.
The 4m Access you own for your size is likely going to become your "high wind" kite after a while. It won't provide enough pull in winds much below 20
mph to motor you around too aggressively. I own a 6m Access and love it; don't worry that you have a dud kite.
What you will hear a lot of folks say here on PKF (and these are folks with years of experience) is that there is little substitution for developing
foundational skills on a small (i.e. 3m) FB. Like your Access, after a while a 3m FB will become another high wind kite.
Good luck !
| Quote: Originally posted by super_squirrel | Thanks for this. I am worried as I bought my kites from ebay. found a great deal on a Venom II 13m on ebay and jumped on it. But there is no way I am
starting on that...
So i got a 4m Ozone access which i found for cheap but still it seems everyone is saying that might be to large to start with. I am 250lbs so maybe
its ok?
I do have a tiny (insignificant) experience when i had a few kite surfing lessons when i was 14/15. But never really carried it through.
Im looking to Landboard for now as I am based in London. |
Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)
Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)
Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR
NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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abkayak
Posts: 2271
Registered: 1-7-2012
Location: a.b. NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: loving life and becoming wise in simplicity
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bump for our newest
you can thank Riff
US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6
Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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Thank you for the support
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3shot
Posts: 2631
Registered: 2-14-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: JIBE Talkin'
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This really needs a sticky!
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
http://hint.fm/wind/
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riffclown
Posts: 1095
Registered: 7-8-2013
Location: Virginia
Member Is Offline
Mood: rain rain go away...leave some wind so I can play.
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I appreciate the support..
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ssayre
Posts: 3584
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
Member Is Offline
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I'll work on the npw addendum if you don't mind. They are a versatile work horse and deserve mention IMO.
I'll u2u you my best description and I'll let you tidy it up and add it if you deem acceptable.
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