http://www.peterlynnproducts.com/news/news.php?id=40

You posted this because it has your new record in it.

damn rights, and proud of it.

plus i have to rep for my teammates too. hehehe. :bigok:

Hey, I'd be posting too with a speed like that. Congrats and props to you for holding on that tight! :bigok:

The new Peter Lynn kites are pretty darn impressive!!!

Not sure if this will spark a whole other discussion but recently I've been having discussions with other buggy pilots about pros and cons of various kites. Until depowerables came along I had always flown race foils - love the speed and love the power but I've had some really hairy experiences out on the dry lake and a few in the winters when rocketing along and had a surge/collapse etc. One brilliant time a few years back with a 3.5 when I thought I was maxed power, got a gust shot up toward 60mp accelerating then got totally slammed by a wall of wind that shot the kite forward, collapsed it and opened behind me pointing the other way. Good thing the pvc handle snapped in half and 3 lines broke. Live to buggy another day.
Now kiting in Ontario Canada we rarely get steady winds. In the winter there are stronger winds which are extremely gusty. Then for buggying we don't have really wide beaches and wind is usually at an angle so one way running upwind and the other downwind.
I'm always surprised by the number of people that look for what's touted to be top of the line gear but they never use it to the limits of that gear and bail out out at their own personal comfort level - and in many cases are frustrated by higher performance and often quirky kites.
When the depowerables came along the Peter Lynn were a natural choice in that we could use them buggying, surfing and all winter. With the angled wind on the beach we could use a kite and adjust power to ride both high upwind and smoke downwind.
I've argued that with the right sized race foil for the right wind conditions with ideal room to run it - you'll get the maximum speed possible. But on the other side we've found that a well tuned twinskin will get us going pretty darn fast as well - over the last 3 years at NABX our group had been doing regular speeds of 50-58 mph on twin skins and just a few mph faster on the foils. The biggest difference was the confidence in the kite at the higher speeds for some riders and ability to depower and the ability to ride a lot longer without taking breaks.
This year's NABX was outstanding for wind conditions - we easily pushed the twinskins over 60mph. Many days we noticed a lot of guys doing fast runs on various kites but not as many guys riding a lot of miles. We'd see the same small handful of 5-6 people riding all day long. There was a small group of dedicated PL Arc riders and we were comparing daily speeds and mileage with others. Due to circumstances I was riding borrowed gear (Scorpions, Phantoms and, thanks again to Kent, a small Ozone foil). On most of the windy days I was averaging just over 90 miles per day of riding at high speeds. There were a lot more guys that would go out and run for a half hour or so, get a high speed run and then take a break for a while. Their daily averages were between 35-50 miles. I know I also put on a lot of miles riding solely on foil but for a some people I think a depowerable may extend their riding time.

I love my foils, I love my arcs. For the riders in my area that want a kite for a wide use I have to recommend the Peter Lynns as a great option - easy to learn, you can ride a long time without getting burned out fighting side pull and if you know what you're doing speed isn't an issue. That's just my point of view on some of the plus in riding a PL Arc.

Good to see more people inspired by others to share ideas and to get out there and do it. Things just keep getting better for all types of kites and buggies.
Mark

well put

you bar, me handles ... glad we can co-exist together.
i will say that the Arcs are great Gust Busters.

hopefully you can find us some land half way in canada so we can ride together more.

PS. my Vapor will beat your Charger. ROFL *JUST KIDDING* :bigok:
see you again this year, road trip to the east in the winter.

It's no problem switching back and forth. I think it took me quite a while to learn to fly off the bar in the buggy, but now, i can switch, not think about it at all, and also fly the bar kites very agro if needed.

The twin skin is for me the best way to go by far, as it covers the wind range so beautifully.

Now let's hope we get some wind for JIBE!

aoxomoxoa~!

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites well put you bar, me handles ... glad we can co-exist together. i will say that the Arcs are great Gust Busters.

I am like Deanoxo,
I can find the good in almost any kite that is in my hands. On a day like yesterday when I just needed raw power in a nice steady wind , the big old Blade and handles did a fine job again. Still I can go on and on about the value of depower.

We all have fun and do what we do ! I'm only glad that you don't give us on blades attitude ! :D

As long as everyone is having fun with what they like we can all share the wind ! :wee:

Mark,

Nice one, but the main reason for us foil pilots/handles, is that we do a lot of races in Europe, and they are realy technical ones, so not 2 or 3 markers, no, 5, somtime up to 8 or 10 markers in a circuit, in those cases you realy need to have a kite which can tack up , high up against the wind direction, and be very manouverable.

People tryed to do it with twinskins, but that was not a succes, for cruising, speeding, and comfort, I must say a twinskin can be very good, but the way we use foils here in europe, it is not.

So, it is good to see so many twinskins during a NABX, the guys from PL were very suprised, they never saw so many twinskins at the same time (from PL) in the air !!. was a good one !.

The thing when a foils in not tuned well, it can pop in, and open up behind you, good for the adrenaline !,..but also that can be solved by tuning the kite properly, and not all foils are that stable ofcourse. like the old RM foils, they were basterds,..but if you have the current foils,...like the Vapor,ReactorII,..spirit etc.. they are much more stable then all other foils were before.

My opinion about a foil, is that during a race, I must concentrate on my tactics, and not constantly looking with one eye to my foils, if it is holding one etc.. this is what you see now in all designs, very stable and fast foils.

oke, my 2 cents,....

regards,
Ozzy

Are twin skins legal to race with where you race?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

oxoa

Quote:

Originally posted by deanaoxo Are twin skins legal to race with where you race? Inquiring minds would like to know. oxoa

Yes Dean,

You can race with every kite you want, as long as you don't use Kevlar lines, and the lenght max. 45 mtrs.

If you know the German pilot Stephan knickmeier, he alsway uses the S-kite for example, a big Delta wing, and there were in 2006 some big Flysurfers at the World Championships in France. So if you want to take part of a race in europe with your twinsknins,...no problem at all, or a tubekite,...we had them also..

But like I said, in the end, the races that we do in europe, most pilots use foils,...excepts Stephan K. with his S-kites (he is Fast !!).

regards,
Ozzy

Twin skins are ideal for the kind of racing we seem to do around here.

We just end up standing around talking about racing so the auto zenith makes it easy to do that !

Even I would fly a race foil if I was trying to win a buggy race. The fine control / feedback + upwind performnce from the race kites is a big advantage I'm sure.

Hey Ozzy
I agree with everything everyone is saying. Yes in racing positioning that foil, tweaking the brake, tight turn rounding the mark - foils are great. I've also seen the twinskins do well on the most part of courses but generally loose a bit of ground rounding the marks - not to say you can't do it well and tight just most guys loosen up the kite a lot and it slows down and spills air and opens up - then a good chance of taking out a few kites in the move :-)
We had a lot more wind than usual at NABX and I think some people get caught with only a few sizes of foils or not quite experienced enough to know what to do in higher winds when the buggy doesn't slow down. There were so many times that guys could have gotten out and rode a bit longer with a more forgiving kite.
I like them both, love the precision and control of handles, love the ease and depower to power range when using a bar - different days I just go with what feels right.
Most days a beer feels right.

Have you guys finished celebrating and telling stories of your trip to NASBX yet?
Mark

IMO, arcs rock for racing, especially for downwind turns. Foils are much harder to keep from collapsing. With an arc, you can go as fast as you want downwind around a mark, as long as you don't run over your lines (ran over my lines right before the racing at NABX on Sunday). The kite doesn't collapse.

Foils do accelerate quicker. Found that out in the last race.

found this podcast:

http://mnadventure.com/index.php?option=com_content&view...

Holy Cow what a great interview!!! Thanks Richard!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites found this podcast: http://mnadventure.com/index.php?option=com_content&view...

indeed wind at JIBE would be supreme

"We just end up standing around talking about racing..."

Gotta say, this just sums up racing in the US quite well. Guess I could go into it a little more, but, why bother, just a lot of YELLING and then Bob has to ban someone. Repeat.

No yelling from our side, just intelligent questions that go unanswered.

Gonna answer them any time soon? Inquiring minds want to know!

bison,
this part of kiting i know nothing about ???

Quote:

Originally posted by geokite No yelling from our side, just intelligent questions that go unanswered. Gonna answer them any time soon? Inquiring minds want to know!

Trying to bait me there Steve? Your questions have been answered time and again, yet YOU refuse to accept the answer! Sounds like a personal ideology problem.

"this part of kiting i know nothing about ??? "

Dude, YOU don't want to know, trust me. Its an ongoing argument that I fear will never be resolved.

Dave's questions about abuse of fisly rules got answered? Where? When? Can you point me there? Thanks!

I'll answer your questions when you answer mine! So, maybe you can answer something for me, Steve?

I made a comment that Bladerunner's statement was spot on and that it's not worth discussing racing in this forum. To prove my point you come in and start demanding answers to questions(re: FILSY), as if I or others are required to answer them.

What is this obsession with trashing FISLY rules, Steve? No one, that supports the use of FISLY rules can come in here without Steve demanding HIS questions be answered! Then if they are not answered to STEVE'S satisfaction you continue to elicit an angry response. This is not the first time this has happened, is it Steve? Recently, you provoked Jon, and got your messages deleted by Bob. (Confirmation of this was giving by you in a U2U to me.)

When will you stop criticizing people just because they have a different idea on what Kite Buggy Racing should be like? Why do you find it necessary to continue this path anytime someone mentions FISLY?

Why, Steve, Why? Enlighten me! Curious minds want to know.

1) I was not demanding. Just asking, yes or no. If they have been answered, then please point me to where the answers are. I guess you are not required to answer them. But it would make sense if someone promotes them, and encourages their use.
2) Obsession? Pot is calling the kettle black
3) They were not my questions, see previous post
4) No angry response from me. Please be more specific, or get a thicker skin.
5) Provoked Jon? As said in the deleted thread, he should put up or shut up if he is going to promote the rules (he promoted the rules)
6) I'm criticizing people? May I refer the readers of the thread in which vile names were thrown in response to intelligent questions, then the name callers removed their posts. Oh, sorry, that thread was removed...

Rich, you mentioned that my questions were answered. Were Dave's? If so, where, when? I am not demanding (even though you may interpret it like that). I would simply like to be completely informed as to why people insist on using those rules, and Dave's questions were a very good route to that understanding.

Quote:

But it would make sense if someone promotes them, and encourages their use.

Over the years, (Ten, at least) I have tried to answer many questions concerning FISLY, only to be barraged with hypothetical questions and situations that can't occur in racing or occur SO rarely that they would be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Quote:

2) Obsession? Pot is calling the kettle black

If anyone of us, that support the use of FISLY, even mention racing, you are right there demanding, yes DEMANDING answers to yours or others questions. Any conversation concerning racing or FISLY is hijacked by you and others that are critical of FISLY. Somehow this is NOT an obsession? Give me a break.

Quote:

4) No angry response from me. Please be more specific, or get a thicker skin.

Try looking up the definition for "elicit"

Quote:

5) Provoked Jon? As said in the deleted thread, he should put up or shut up if he is going to promote the rules (he promoted the rules)

"...he should put up or shut up..." is not demanding an answer?

Quote:

6) I'm criticizing people? May I refer the readers of the thread in which vile names were thrown in response to intelligent questions, then the name callers removed their posts. Oh, sorry, that thread was removed...

I appologize, very poorly worded. What I meant when I said: "When will you stop criticizing people just because they have a different idea on what Kite Buggy Racing should be like? is "When will you stop being so critical of FISLY rules?" (Damn, knew what I wanted to say, just could wrap my mind around it.)

Many posts that did answer specific questions were deleted quite quickly. There were plenty of negative things said on BOTH sides, maybe not by you, but by others that support your views.

Quote:

Rich, you mentioned that my questions were answered. Were Dave's? If so, where, when? I am not demanding (even though you may interpret it like that). I would simply like to be completely informed as to why people insist on using those rules, and Dave's questions were a very good route to that understanding.

The thread you speak of was locked around the same time that I started to get involved. By the time I had a detailed response, to Dave's questions, ready to go I was unable to post. I offered to answer Dave's questions privately. We exchanged a few emails, but since I had a pinched nerve in my neck at the time, which made typing quite painful, I asked Dave if we could have a conversation via phone. He agreed to call me in a couple of days. Well, I never heard from him. Not one email, not one phone call. I emailed him a couple of times with no response. That was about 1-1/2 years ago. So, my questions is "just how important was it to Dave that those questions get answered?"

Again Steve, WHY is this so important that you pursue an answer to DAVE'S questions?

Here's an answer for both of ya....


If you want to use Filsy rules...then GREAT! Plan on attending and racing in the events that use Filsy rules and have fun. If you want to only race with Filsy rules and none other, then DON'T attend the races that don't use Filsy rules.


If you don't want to use Filsy rules....then GREAT! Don't attend any races that use Filsy rules....and only attend those events that use other rules to your liking and have fun.

The secret is to let those that want to use Filsy use them.......... and ........ let those that don't want to use Filsy use whatever rules they want.

Trying to force someone into changing their mind into your way of thinking is only going to get you frustrated and cut into some very valuable buggying time.

Just my opinion anyways....

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange Trying to force someone into changing their mind into your way of thinking is only going to get you frustrated and cut into some very valuable buggying time. Just my opinion anyways....

Hey Kent, I've NEVER seen or heard of anyone, who supports FISLY rules, say that they should be used exclusively.

NABX restricts racing to Argyle Park rules only. I just don't understand why. Seems to me that there's plenty of lakebed.

This is pretty much the heart of the issue.

Hi guys,

Whoow, this is a pretty deep discussion that is going on already for a long time I think,..
Here in Europe we also have sometimes races not by fisly regulations, which are organized by locals or someone else, like our yearly Zijper Buggyrace, just from A to B ,...I bet that there are more races like that in Europe.

So, question, what are the differences between the Fisly rules and the other rules you guys want to use ?
Is it such a difference ?,....

Sorry, that I mix myself in this discussion, but at the end the only thing what we want to do is ,.....Buggy!!!:embarrased:

Best regards,...peace ! Ozzy,....