with other average performance de-power foils from Flysurfer, Ozone, etc.?
ie. an 12m PL (twin skin) will be equivalent pull/power to a FS Pulse (1 or 2) and/or a 12m Access/Frenzy?
*i am looking at filling gap betweeb 7.5 Frenzy and 12 Pulse2.
thanks,
Paul

I recently asked Powerzone about this same thing... I was looking to fill my 10m FS gap, he recommended a 13m PL with 10m extensions.

From that I would deduce that PL kites are roughly 65% as efficient as the non-arc twinskins. Less bridle structure equals more loss of air. Of course this is why they are so good at gust handling, I would assume.

Looks like you have pretty much the same issue I had a month ago. I wish I could let you know how it is, but I just havent had the opportunity to put my PL in the air.

concur on the 13m V or VII.........................27m lines should be fine on the 13, possibly ext on the 10m.

I can say the 13m V at 20 kts has more power than the 8m P3, which makes sense based on projected area. Whats your top end on the P2 and Ozone? 30 kts on a 13m V/VII is not uncommon and quite comfortable........................with a 10 or 13m V/VII I wouldnt be surprised if your Ozone became obsolete.......




Type Size Projected area
10V/VII 10.0 7.0
13V/VII 13.0 9.10

I'd say its a more complicated question then a direct conversion. usually people say its about a 3m gap between an ARC and a flysurfer when referring to the venom or synergy.

part of it depends on how high of aspect the kite is.

for example. a 12m phantom is closer to a 10m Venom
I'm guessing something similar probably holds true for the scorpion vs the synergy.

the high aspect Arcs have great top end and low bar pressure but they lack low end too.

High Aspect Arcs: F-Arcs, Phantoms, Scorpions (also considered land specific kites because the bow tie easier)
Lower Aspect Arcs: Bombas, Gorillas, Venoms, Vortex, Synergy (water specific kites, easier to relaunch because they are wider and less likely to get twisted) ususally have better low end at the cost of significantly more bar pressure.


I fly my phantoms on the water, as do many other people, its pretty rare to crash one since they auto zenith. and you can probably relaunch it if you get some practice.

I think the widely used ARC calculator is worth posting here. hope this helps you figure out the right size for your needs.

just input your weight in kg. select either land or water and hit calculate and it will show you all the kites with the exception of the Synergy since that kite is too new to be on the calculator page.
http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra...

That table shows me needing a 15-16m in the low AR kites for land use down to 7 mph winds. That's pretty versatile. I need to buggy with a 15m synergy just to see about the hype.

thnx a bunch guys. i thought there was a difference but did not know approx. calculation.

if they allow me, i will spend some time with mac's (lower AR) Phantom and wolfee's (higher AR) Scorpion.
Paul

Rev,

FYI the Phanny is higher at 6.5 AR the Scorp is 5.5..........................

oh yeah, i miss read NWS's thread.
cool:duh:

Always welcome to fly anything I have, people have told me they think the Scorpion is the best buggy kite out of the PL's. Guess were gonna find out. There is another one for $450, can't beat that price if its complete. Hope we have good winds for the weekend kite festival, wind finder says only 10 mph and then rocking again Monday, lets hope there wrong.
Pretty good site: http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/edmonton_city_airport

thanks wolfee:singing:
man that'll suck if it's only 10mp/h. hows windfinder's accuracy and consistency been for predicting that far off?
i've been looking at the weather network since spring and they really have no clue. their long range forecasts change daily and often drastically right up until the day at hand. i haven't got a clue why i still look, glutton for punishment:puzzled:
i got 'the looS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K- from wife after last purchase. going to have to peek around on the down low for a little while
when do you expect the scorp?
Paul

Last weekend it was pretty well bang right on although did hit some higher winds on Saturday. My back is still sore, definitely need a set of those shorty ski's. Landed and caught the hard snow and took a good hit, glad had the 661 on.
Sent him some money haven't heard back, sure I will. Hear they have amazing lift and are fast, time will tell.
You going to need to stash the buggies...lol

no,
she does "all" the banking/money transfers so she is in the loop.:dunno: she asked that i cool it for the next month. i'll try:roll:
i still need something for low wind de-power and to fill gap between my 7.5 and 12m de-power. PL seems like the way to go especially for inland/gusty and prices bode well too. have to get some time on one to see how they feel.
Paul

I'll have the whole kit out on Saturday / Sunday and you're more than welcome to fly any of them. Other than the launch there's little to not love about them.

Nice to see your back macboy, give me a call if you have a chance. Might have some goodies for you

yay maccy-b,
the launch is pretty much what i need to get a feel for. i think the cruising part will be fine.
Paul