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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 22-4-2021 at 12:12 PM
New to harness


I have been flying various kites on handles for years, and am trying to learn to fly on harness. I had one kiteboard lesson on my honeymoon 11 years ago, but none of that has stuck since I primarily fly handles.

I bought two peter lynn harnesses, a base and a divine. I planned to use the base as a backup for handles and the divine with a bar. spreader for base has a pulley (Bullet), divine is a hook.

So, I have a few bridled foils 3.6m, 4m, and about 5m, and one arc charger ii 12m.

I bought two used 4 line depower bars with equal length lines. That 3.6m came with a trainer bar, but I can't figure out how to use it though as the power lines are attached to a leash with nothing stopping them from flying away.

I have a mountain board and have been considering building skates with scooter wheels, but the mountain board is my comfort zone for now.

Advice on how to start? How to attach a strop for the handles? I'm trying the bar with the charger but wind died before I could get it off the ground.
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Ed Cline
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[*] posted on 22-4-2021 at 12:40 PM


Hey, If two lines are attached to a trainer bar, and two more are attached to a wrist leash ?
There are setups where the flying lines are connected to the bar ends, and the brake lines are connected only to the wrist leash.
The brake lines offer no control, and are used for re launch and safety only.

As for the flying line connected to a leash, it sounds like an oops.
If you identify the rig better, you will probably get a better answer :P



Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
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Ed Cline
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[*] posted on 22-4-2021 at 12:55 PM


Further thought,
There is a bar called crossover. The power lines connect to an adjustable strap in the center of the bar.
This adjustable strap balances the differential between flying and brake lines length, and further affects both brake and flying lines to aid in turning via the crossover pulley.
This is not a push pull bar

I think it was a good attempt, I can't get any use out of one.
I saved the parts, nice egg pulleys on the crossover.

Not likely you have this one, but its out there.



Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 22-4-2021 at 01:13 PM


Thanks, Ed, I actually realized just after posting that the lines must have been reversed. It just took me typing the word leash to trigger the thought. That kite is more than 20 years old and it is entirely possible that I reversed them and have forgotten. In any case, it is irrelevant to harness, but I will fix the connections so my son can use it.

Wind is up again today so I am going to take another crack at the charger. Looks like I need to try to get it up 45 degrees off wind and try to hold it steady until it fills.
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[*] posted on 22-4-2021 at 01:51 PM


Quote: Originally posted by ScottAvery  
I have a mountain board and have been considering building skates with scooter wheels, but the mountain board is my comfort zone for now.







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NasaStar-5 (2.5m, 4.0m)
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Ozone kites:
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Flysurfer Kites:
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 22-4-2021 at 08:42 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  




Why? Hobby rabbit hole or physical danger?

I did manage to get the Charger up but the launch advice from the manual didn't help. In the end I had to backpedal about 300 yards while yanking the top lines to inflate the kite. The field isn't that long so I had to drag it back half inflated and try again. Took an hour to figure it out, and by the time I got it up I had to start winding down as the kickballers were lining up to take the field.

It did pull pretty hard once I finally got it inflated but it didn't seem like that much harder than my much smaller Quadrifoil. The kite makes sense for water but seems like too much work for landboarding. I will either try with one of my open foils or maybe look into a single skin. Still need to figure out the strop setup, though.

How does one compare sizes on bridled kites vs other designs? Doesn't seem like the surface area measurements are directly comparable.
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 04:58 AM


we are all ok w/ you going broke in the sport
spend the collage fund remortgage the house...all good:thumbup:
some don't really have a pblm w/ you taking the beating you seem intent
on getting from anyone of these kites...cause we all have paid our dues
but we must take pause when you say your gonna attach the kid to kite...
slow it down a bit...get very well reacquainted w/ flying and the equipment
and than you can start bringing in wheels, motion and children

or do it your way...either one
welcome aboard



US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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Windstruck
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 05:15 AM


Please understand that first and foremost I was just sort of ribbing you with the "Danger Will Robinson, Danger!" clip. I meant no offense.

I do have some experience with kite skating and building up various skate / wheel combinations. I found the 3-wheels-under approach very much like skating with hockey skates on ice but perhaps not so ideal for power kiting. Aptly named "wheels of doom" style skates (one wheel in front, one behind) worked vastly better for me in terms of setting a tack line against the force of the kite, but were much less maneuverable in the corners and likely knee twisters in the wrong situations. Definite trade offs in that department.

What struck me (and please don't take offense here, I'm thinking about your safety) is that perhaps you need some more time working out the kinks in your kit before you go and strap some wheels to your feet. You appear to be working towards power kite skating on inland grass fields which likely means a couple things. First, the winds are likely to be "janky" as compared to smooth and predictable as one can experience in wide open places. Second, you can run out of real estate very quickly under high power and things can start getting in the way of you, your kite, and your lines; let's just say it gets "busy". Been there; done that; tough time to have wheels strapped to your feet. Much better perhaps to be able to step off that land board of yours that you are already comfortable on.

The last thing I'd comment on is that for kite skating with a harness I would strongly recommend DP kites as compared to a stropped-over-a-pulley FB handled situation. Couple of reasons. First, DP offers you some sort of "throttle" to the kite power, something that may come in quite handy when you get a confluence of events on that pitch of yours AND the wind chooses to gust on you. Second, you may not be able to abort that smoothly from your stropped in FB kite in those "busy" moments.

I get it - I was all over the idea of kite skating too and really miss it. I almost killed myself doing it so I'm probably extra skittish about it. Have fun, please wear a good helmet, and most of all, please post video of your exploits!



Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m)
NasaStar-5 (2.5m, 4.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Ozone kites:
Access (6.0m)

Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 07:27 AM


I thank you both for the comments and suggestions.

First, I am not going to tie my kid to a power kite and let him go! That handle is just of no use to me so I will pass it on. He has a stack of dual-line foils for now.

I don't expect to be hopping on wheels soon. I am okay with hearing advice like, "do these exercises for X months until you can achieve Y." All my experience is with handles. I also fly a deep quiver of Revolutions so handle control is fairly instinctive. Bar is new, but since I don't plan to buy a buggy it seems that I will have to learn. It's going to take some time accepting the concept of depower by changing angle of attack with the brake lines instead of braking with the brake lines. I'm just so used to being able to stop the kite and back down. My instinct is to pull the brakes but here that adds power? Nope, brain is not ready to accept that.

Thanks for the comments on the skates as well. I had bought off-road skates years ago and never used them, then more recently saw the doomwheels blog with plans that could reuse those boots - someday. The mountain board has only been used downhill, rather than with a kite. As it happens, there is a nice hill adjacent to the cricket fields where everyone flies here.

We have no wind here, ever. Even Janky would be nice. We just have none. I rushed out yesterday because it was one of the rare times I can remember that we had more than about 7 miles an hour without rain, but it was still gusty and multi-directional. Wednesday had been a good day, too, but I wasn't able to figure out inflating that arc before the wind quit.

So given the advice to stick with depower for this exploit, it appears I will need to do more shopping. I am assuming I can't just throw my fixed bridle kites on a depower bar and expect them to function. Is that right? The arc is definitely too much hassle for my limited time and crap wind for local practice - I'll have to save it for beach trips or more experience. What should I look for in the used kite forum to get some depower practice?

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abkayak
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 08:33 AM


imo
i don't think id be shopping so quick, wait a month to fig some more out
first i am assuming you were in a harness w/ the charger so...
fly the fb's and look to add a strop line and get used to the power down at your hips not just in your arms
its always best to try a kite out underpowered but my experiance has been Arcs need to inflate on the ground
w/out any problem in order to be flying them in proper conditions
if you can ride a mountainboard on a hill you certainly can kite w/ one...the hard parts behind you
i think lay off the pulley and hook in...fly fb for a while you have the kites
for the record I'm ok w/ your son doing all these things even faster than you...just be careful theres no do-overs



US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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tomdiving
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 08:45 AM


what about a rev power blast? light wind capable and it's something you're already comfortable flying. don't know about harness use, though.
tom
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 10:11 AM


Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving  
what about a rev power blast? light wind capable and it's something you're already comfortable flying. don't know about harness use, though.
tom


I have looked at the blast, and Rev even has a car-sized kite now that would really pull, but they are still flat, single-surface kites that fall instantly when not under power. That seems like more of a gimmick, maybe for a laugh when I am more experienced. A foil is forgiving and floats a little if you bobble it or wind slows for a second.
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Ed Cline
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 10:21 AM


12m Charger in light wind. Here's how it looks when my buddy flys my old 12.



I used a small leaf blower for inflation.
The key is go slow, let it hang until it fills, and dont expect any fast responses when low to the ground.
Janky wind is not your friend.



Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 10:31 AM


Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  

get used to the power down at your hips not just in your arms


This was the my first shock. Definitely more noticeable on land than I recall from flying bar in the water.
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 10:38 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline  

I used a small leaf blower for inflation.


Oh, oh. That's clever. Inflating it was rough. I do have a gas blower that I don't use for anything...


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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 11:43 AM


Good stuff Scott, and welcome to PKF. My Spidey Sense was up earlier today. I tried not to come off preachy and it seems I hit the mark so that's good. I agree with what Abkayak said earlier, if you've got the skills (and the stones!) to ride a skateboard downhill you are clearly the sort of guy for these endeavors. Glad to hear you are in the mindset to take it slow. Get all those bars, line sets, and kites worked out, then get rolling.

Trust me (also from experience), don't come home with a busted up son, wives absolutely hate that and your hay-rolling clock may get set back for several months and we don't want that. In my case, I was pulling my gleefully shrieking son around the neighborhood in a bike trailer and took a corner too fast and spilled him tumbling into the street. He got very abraded and bloodied and started shrieking in a wholly different way. I got to take him to the Emergency Room and answer all sorts of childhood battery questions. Wife was double (nay, triple) plus pissed at me.

Your REV experience will do you well. Yes, there is a different muscle memory that needs to set in to fly DP kites, but it's more simple than you think. Go get 'em tiger!



Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m)
NasaStar-5 (2.5m, 4.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Ozone kites:
Access (6.0m)

Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 11:55 AM


Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  

i think lay off the pulley and hook in...fly fb for a while you have the kites


How would this work exactly? FB on bar or handles/strop?

I still have not figured out how to attach a strop line to handles. Attach right at the top line point? Figured I would start with a simple tied rope rather than buy a fancy sewn line.
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 01:03 PM


It takes some muscle, but landboard without the strop until you get used to it, then add the strop in after a few sessions. Getting super manned on the beach hurts, I can only imagine what it'd be like on hard ground.
Arcs (as I found out) are not light wind kites. You need enough wind to fill them on the ground (as has been mentioned), and you need enough steady wind to keep them up. In your conditions you might be better served with a decent sized Peak, or some other light wind foil that can stay up during the lulls. Don't get me wrong, I love my arcs, but I have access to beaches with fairly steady wind here.

Strop attaches like this to the back of the top of the handles: PL Strop
Lots of info here on PKF if you search Strop.




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abkayak
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[*] posted on 23-4-2021 at 01:12 PM


i think you should get to handles on all the fb's soon as u can...
if theres no wind go stretch your lines out and get better at packing up
these are simple machines but its good to stare at your stuff and fig out what makes things work
and how to make adjustments to it
the strop line will go across the power lines on the top of the handles, but honestly don't rush to that
be comfortable as hell strong arming these kites before you hook in...you should be scudding in complete
control before you start thinking about attaching yourself to the kite

as i always say read coastalwindsports tutorials and watch youtube stuff



US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 10-5-2021 at 07:34 AM


I got another FB size option from a member here (larger) but it didn't come with lines/handles, so I still need to do some shopping.

I plan to spend a little time in the water this summer, hopefully with lessons. Is the Divine harness okay for water or do I need to get another?
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ScottAvery
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[*] posted on 11-5-2021 at 07:35 AM


Also, with the Divine, where do I attach a leash for the safety line? How long? Can I make it or should I be looking to buy one? Neither of the used bars I got came with a leash.
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[*] posted on 30-11-2021 at 02:39 PM


If your kiting inland, I wouldn't waste time with a strop. Popeye arm it until you realize you need something like a peak
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