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Author: Subject: My buggy build (Zephyr I)
Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-20-2020 at 06:49 PM
My buggy build (Zephyr I)


I am addicted ..... New build.

This will be the first buggy that I build The Zephyr I.
I am hoping to get feed back, tips and hints. Thanks for reading.

This is all the steel and wheels for the rolling chassis.
Zephyr 1.jpg - 46kB

Actual size lay out for the goose neck.
Zephyr 2.jpg - 32kB Zephyr 3.jpg - 33kB




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[*] posted on 3-20-2020 at 09:04 PM


Right on. I look forward to watching your progress.



Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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jantie


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[*] posted on 3-20-2020 at 11:21 PM


Nice.
What kind of rims are these?
And are those bigfoot midi tyres?

The distance between front axle and fork pipe is
for me a little short. I would at least double or even triple the distance you have now to make it less nervous at high speed.

Keep posting :D






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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-21-2020 at 06:14 AM


The rims are 8in x 7in 52mm hub 52mm x 20mm bearings.

Tyres are 18in x 9.5in x 8in 4 ply. (midi XL)

If increasing the distance between the axle and fork, do you need to change the head angle to be more in line with the axle? (more caster, more caster is more stable)




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jantie


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[*] posted on 3-21-2020 at 11:06 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh  
The rims are 8in x 7in 52mm hub 52mm x 20mm bearings.

Tyres are 18in x 9.5in x 8in 4 ply. (midi XL)

If increasing the distance between the axle and fork, do you need to change the head angle
to be more in line with the axle? (more caster, more caster is more stable)


yes true, but too much can shake/shimmy the tire and rememder: there is only 1 frontwheel on your bug, it's not a car.( or a Crab.. :cool: )
i've just measured mine and i have it neutral. (give or take 0.1 degrees due to tire-pressure)
so riding backwards is also stable.. :D

i've driven so many time's well over 50Mph and backwards not that much slower and the stability with neutral caster is great.

even with the side-ride wich adds an easy 100kg with passenger (with or without kite) has no negative influence of the stability.
also with the tandem (speed +50Mph) wich increases the downforce on the rear-axle dramaticly, i only need to deflate the front tire slightlty to go like it's a solo-run.


but that's how is see it, it is your project.
perhaps a trialrun with neutral and then positive caster will make it easier to choose.. :thumbup:

keep them pics coming.







to visit my Youtube-channel.


kite-movies about me on other channels:
kitebuggy-tandem movie
duobuggy movie
side-ride + tandem buggy







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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-22-2020 at 07:05 AM


Quote: Originally posted by jantie  
Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh  
The rims are 8in x 7in 52mm hub 52mm x 20mm bearings.

Tyres are 18in x 9.5in x 8in 4 ply. (midi XL)

If increasing the distance between the axle and fork, do you need to change the head angle
to be more in line with the axle? (more caster, more caster is more stable)


yes true, but too much can shake/shimmy the tire and rememder: there is only 1 frontwheel on your bug, it's not a car.( or a Crab.. :cool: )
i've just measured mine and i have it neutral. (give or take 0.1 degrees due to tire-pressure)
so riding backwards is also stable.. :D

i've driven so many time's well over 50Mph and backwards not that much slower and the stability with neutral caster is great.

even with the side-ride wich adds an easy 100kg with passenger (with or without kite) has no negative influence of the stability.
also with the tandem (speed +50Mph) wich increases the downforce on the rear-axle dramaticly, i only need to deflate the front tire slightlty to go like it's a solo-run.


but that's how is see it, it is your project.
perhaps a trialrun with neutral and then positive caster will make it easier to choose.. :thumbup:

keep them pics coming.

So, yesterday it was too cold to work in the garage. Instead did some reading about the geometry on front of a buggy. First off I think I used the wrong term, I am speaking of rake and trail. PTW site has a page on explaning the rake and trail on a buggy.

It looks like 25 - 28 degrees rake and 80mm - 100mm trail seems standard.
I will check the geometry of the several fork designs I have in mind.

May need to change the goose neck. At the moment the rake is at 28 degrees.

Stay tuned.




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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-22-2020 at 05:02 PM


Ok, the tepm was in the 40s today and I had some time to mess around in the garage.

Worked on getting some Ideas down for the back axle.
Zephyr 4.jpg - 26kB

Also, I bent the side rails.
Zephyr 5.jpg - 59kB Zephyr 6.jpg - 53kB




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[*] posted on 3-22-2020 at 05:06 PM


Does anyone have any suggestions for the distance from the ground to the bottom of the goose neck? What is it on and MG or an Apex?

Thanks




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kteguru




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[*] posted on 3-23-2020 at 08:44 AM


Shaping up really nice. Can't wait to see it in fall.
Two thumbs up :thumbup::thumbup:
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jantie


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[*] posted on 3-23-2020 at 01:53 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh  
Does anyone have any suggestions for the distance from the ground to the bottom of the goose neck? What is it on and MG or an Apex?

Thanks


The last part of the gooseneck wich is horizontal is
about 5 inch in height on my homebrew buggy. But need to say that I use bigfoot fullsize
inflated to 0.2 bar so it drops a bit due to bodyweight.
Not all goosenecks are horizontal like for example the Libre V-Max that I used as a baseline for the Crab.

I'm very curious to know what kinda seat your gonna use or fabricate because of the form me the little odd shape of the sidebars.
The one I mostly use is a Libre full Race seat and would never fit on your buggy.


For the rear axle M20 and the sidebars M16 i used this instead of a short and regular bold:
extended bold.jpg - 11kB

Keep posting

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:






to visit my Youtube-channel.


kite-movies about me on other channels:
kitebuggy-tandem movie
duobuggy movie
side-ride + tandem buggy







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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-23-2020 at 05:33 PM


Quote: Originally posted by kteguru  
Shaping up really nice. Can't wait to see it in fall.
Two thumbs up :thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks Dean, there is a lot more to figure out. I hope to have it done by then.




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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-23-2020 at 05:50 PM


Quote: Originally posted by jantie  
Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh  
Does anyone have any suggestions for the distance from the ground to the bottom of the goose neck? What is it on and MG or an Apex?

Thanks


The last part of the gooseneck wich is horizontal is
about 5 inch in height on my homebrew buggy. But need to say that I use bigfoot fullsize
inflated to 0.2 bar so it drops a bit due to bodyweight.
Not all goosenecks are horizontal like for example the Libre V-Max that I used as a baseline for the Crab.

I'm very curious to know what kinda seat your gonna use or fabricate because of the form me the little odd shape of the sidebars.
The one I mostly use is a Libre full Race seat and would never fit on your buggy.


For the rear axle M20 and the sidebars M16 i used this instead of a short and regular bold:


Keep posting

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks for the info, I was looking at 4 inches but that seemed too low. 5 sounds better.
The side rails will have a few more bends, plus they are not trimmed to length yet. But I was so excited, I had to kinda size them up.
I like the stand off for the axle, I will have to find some. Some metric hardware is hard to find in the US.
The seat I will be making myself. Plus, there will be a backrest.
Lots of ideas, I may have to change somethings...???




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[*] posted on 3-23-2020 at 09:48 PM


You can get 3/4" ones easily, then swap out your bearings; or have a slightly loose fit in the bearing to bolt connection.



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[*] posted on 3-23-2020 at 10:02 PM


You could build a low rider; just depends on the terrain you ride on and how much ground clearance you need.

4", 5", 6"? I'd get the seat and side rails figured out then use the gooseneck to connect to the front fork.

As far as rake/trail; my experience: something like an older peter Lynn; with the fork nearly straight up and down. Very, very easy to turn with the legs and good for doing spin tricks. Makes the buggy feel extremely nimble.

With a lot of rake; you need to be careful of flop. The tire will feel like it wants to flop over to one side or the other. But I haven't noticed it to be an issue. Just something to think about and consider.

I don't think the head tube angle is super end all be all critical. Between straight up and down and not too far raked back and you will be fine.

This likely won't be the last buggy you ever build. Just the first of many.




Sting 1.7 - Flow 2, 3, 4, 5 - Reactor 2.2, 2.8, 3.5, 4.4, 5.5 - Yakuza 2.2, 2.7 - JOJO 9
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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-26-2020 at 01:57 PM


Quote: Originally posted by rtz  
You can get 3/4" ones easily, then swap out your bearings; or have a slightly loose fit in the bearing to bolt connection.


I found some today McMaster Carr a little pricey...
McMaster-Carr Axle Nut.jpg - 10kB

I really would like to stay with the common hardware you would find in the industry. I did consider going the 3/4 inch rout.




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[*] posted on 3-26-2020 at 06:50 PM


I am following this with great interest!
Thanks for taking the time to post the progress in such depth.
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[*] posted on 3-27-2020 at 09:56 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh  
Quote: Originally posted by rtz  
You can get 3/4" ones easily, then swap out your bearings; or have a slightly loose fit in the bearing to bolt connection.


I found some today McMaster Carr a little pricey...


I really would like to stay with the common hardware you would find in the industry. I did consider going the 3/4 inch rout.


a little pricey..??? that is what we call stealing..






to visit my Youtube-channel.


kite-movies about me on other channels:
kitebuggy-tandem movie
duobuggy movie
side-ride + tandem buggy







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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 3-29-2020 at 04:21 PM


Quote: Originally posted by ColinW  
I am following this with great interest!
Thanks for taking the time to post the progress in such depth.


Thanks, I will post as progress is made. Also any corrections or discoveries.
Are you considering building also.




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[*] posted on 3-29-2020 at 04:32 PM


Ok, some more components finished..

First some axle parts...
Zephyr 7.jpg - 33kB I the was planing on finishing the axle.
But the 17.5mm drill I had did not drill mild steel.
I ordered a new one, but it will be middle of this week before it arrives.

So I made the goose neck...
Zephyr 8.jpg - 42kB Zephyr 9.jpg - 50kB

Thanks for looking.




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[*] posted on 3-29-2020 at 06:23 PM


High quality build! :thumbup:



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[*] posted on 3-29-2020 at 07:52 PM


Nice..!!!!


those steel rims are so cool.
:cool::cool:






to visit my Youtube-channel.


kite-movies about me on other channels:
kitebuggy-tandem movie
duobuggy movie
side-ride + tandem buggy







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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 4-1-2020 at 08:26 AM


Yesterday the new drill that I ordered showed up.

I was able to finish the end caps for the back axle.

Zephyr 10.jpg - 82kB

I will probably finish the back axle this weekend.




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[*] posted on 4-1-2020 at 11:55 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh  
Quote: Originally posted by ColinW  
I am following this with great interest!
Thanks for taking the time to post the progress in such depth.


Thanks, I will post as progress is made. Also any corrections or discoveries.
Are you considering building also.


I have a bunch of buggy parts that mostly fit together... The existing fork is too short for the disc wheels I want to use so I got some plates made up to extend them. I wasn't at all sure about the angles and trail and rake, so made the plates BIG and put many holes in them. The goose neck will have to be extended and re angled as well. I also need to reinforce the side rails (not nearly stiff enough).

I am a carpenter and don't know how to weld but I've finally got the equiptment set up to try. I haven't been able to find any local welding courses that aren't full time trades courses. I have met a great guy who does lots of shiny stuff for the local yachting market, but I don't want to take advantage of him, AND I want to do this myself.
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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 03:45 AM
colin


welding isn't difficult, BUT, do you want to potentially risk your life on something that may or may not be done correctly while you try to learn a new craft?
tom
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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 07:36 AM


Yes, welding is definitely a practiced skill. And I am no expert. As my son Kyle (Dredbro here) said to me the other day after seeing my welds, "A grinder and paint make you the welder you ain't!"... His welding skill is way better than mine. I usually take some scrap pieces of the same material that I am working with and make some test welds to adjust all my settings. I only MIG weld at this point, and only mild steel.. I have never welded stainless.

Colin, I am with you on wanting to do the work your self. As some one on this forum posted at some time.. some thing like " there is no feeling better that rolling down the beach in a buggy you made your self."

Tom your point is very valid also. You need to be sure of your own skills. You are risking life and limb every time you put a kite up. So be sure of your equipment and your skill level.




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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 11:33 AM


Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving  
welding isn't difficult, BUT, do you want to potentially risk your life on something that may or may not be done correctly while you try to learn a new craft?
tom


Point taken. I was more concerned with setting fire to the house or myself. This is why I am not sure the University of Youtube will suffice. Looks so easy tho.

Also not really willing to admit that this is out of my reach:rolleyes: So I'm going down to the garage to round up all the flamables out of the way.;)
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[*] posted on 4-2-2020 at 05:21 PM


I suggest everyone pick up a welder and learn how to use it. Acquire a bunch of scrap metal. Chop it up into smaller pieces. Set the machine settings for the thickness being welded. Get some half way decent welds. Now try it with the machine set to high and too low so you know what that's like.

When the machine is dialed in; cut some of your welds in half so you can see what the weld penetration looks like.

Take 2 pieces that have been welded together and put them in a vise and beat the end over with a hammer to see how strong the weld is.

Mig, Tig, stick. Take up the one that appeals to you.





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Jack.Oh


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[*] posted on 4-6-2020 at 06:01 AM


Got the rear axle done.

Zephyr 11.jpg - 39kB

Zephyr 12.jpg - 39kB Zephyr 14.jpg - 37kB

Zephyr 13.jpg - 27kB Zephyr 15.jpg - 26kB

Now I know, some might be like ..... Hey that seat Rocks!!!
But, the seat is not staying.....

This week I will work on getting the side rails finished up.
Still trying to figure out how to hold everything together / alignment for welding.

And I need to get the rest of the hardware...




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[*] posted on 4-6-2020 at 06:05 AM


Quote: Originally posted by rtz  
I suggest everyone pick up a welder and learn how to use it. Acquire a bunch of scrap metal. Chop it up into smaller pieces. Set the machine settings for the thickness being welded. Get some half way decent welds. Now try it with the machine set to high and too low so you know what that's like.

When the machine is dialed in; cut some of your welds in half so you can see what the weld penetration looks like.

Take 2 pieces that have been welded together and put them in a vise and beat the end over with a hammer to see how strong the weld is.

Mig, Tig, stick. Take up the one that appeals to you.



That's a great way to learn. I actually think we did a very similar thing 30 years ago when I took welding in school.




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[*] posted on 4-7-2020 at 06:11 AM


Ok, moving along.... Yesterday I started the side rails.
I think the shape is Ok, have not made any other bends.

I don't have any actual size drawings. Here is what I did so far.

Zephyr 15.5.jpg - 28kB

Then I lined them up and trimmed both ends. Still need to even them up.
I drew the width of the goose neck plus the plates and then the inside of the rails width, to get my trim angles close.

Zephyr 16.jpg - 31kB Zephyr 17.jpg - 32kB




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