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Author: Subject: AQRs for Buggies
Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-10-2019 at 01:48 PM
AQRs for Buggies


There has been a smattering of discussion over the years on Automatic Quick Release (AQR) systems for buggies, but I don't recall a dedicated thread to their development and refinement.

After a freak gasoline fight accident in my earlier days of power kiting I needed a fail safe method of ensuring I got disconnected from my kite during OBE initiation. Jeff (BigKid) was great in discussing this with me and ultimately selling me my first AQR. It has served me well for several years now (thanks Jeff!).

I decided to make some refinements to my AQR setup due to a couple of (possibly self imposed) limitations of my current setup. All things being equal I don't want a "stinger" under my seat and I want a system I can engage and disengage "blind" with great ease. I wear a full helmet and my protruding chin guard makes it hard to look down between my legs and hook up my current AQR.

Below is a picture of what I'll refer to as my AQR V-1.0. Great thanks to my good friend John (Cerebite) for starting me in this general direction. This particular snap shackle actuates by pulling a mechanism down with a cord as compared to the perhaps more common style that utilizes a plunger. I've heard that the plungers can bend under heavy use. While this style shackle doesn't have this problem there are other issues (but enough on that for the first post).

V-1.0 needs refinement to be sure, and I want to refine the green piece of paracord quite a bit. This is just a running system at this point for sizing and general proof of concept. The bright orange 'biner is on a stout nylon belt that can easily be adjusted for length. The SS ring is what I plan to grab "blind" and slap it into the 'biner to hook up the snap shackle.

I fly DP so the chicken loop goes through the shackle.

Thoughts? Other designs? Please discuss!


[img][/img]




Born-Kites:
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RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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[*] posted on 6-10-2019 at 02:53 PM


So an AQR is sort of like a fire extinguisher that goes off whenever you get into a gasoline fight with the wind?

Seriously, though, one idea that occurred to me was to use a powerful magnet that will let go at a certain load. I don't know though what that load could be. I have seen magnets somewhere that are rated for certain loads. I would imagine there is a flaw in that idea though or it would probably be in use.




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Cerebite




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[*] posted on 6-10-2019 at 04:09 PM


Steve, you should put the buggy end of the "dead man" aft of the nose strap of the seat so that it doesn't ride up the neck of the buggy.

It would be nice to get the rigid ring into the bail of the Winchard but I think I tried it with a Key Ring sized ring and it failed miserably [ring pulled apart under load].




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shehatesmyhobbies


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[*] posted on 6-10-2019 at 05:19 PM


I spent a couple days and several hours with my first hand Macguyver man Nick, at the last WBB, working on an AQR refinement myself after a really bad OBE the previous bash that I thought I broke my back, it was a bad one, not one I wanted to relive anytime soon. A couple guys had Jeff's AQR, I looked, studied, worked it out between Nick and myself and came up with a really nice set up. Not intrusive, adds almost zero weight and definitely works. I will post pics in the next day or two and show how mine is worked. Still need to get the right release, I couldn't find one on the island so I made due with the next best thing.

Am I wrong to say that the top hat is your "leash" for your depower? Pretty nice set up.







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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-10-2019 at 09:48 PM


Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies  
I spent a couple days and several hours with my first hand Macguyver man Nick, at the last WBB, working on an AQR refinement myself after a really bad OBE the previous bash that I thought I broke my back, it was a bad one, not one I wanted to relive anytime soon. A couple guys had Jeff's AQR, I looked, studied, worked it out between Nick and myself and came up with a really nice set up. Not intrusive, adds almost zero weight and definitely works. I will post pics in the next day or two and show how mine is worked. Still need to get the right release, I couldn't find one on the island so I made due with the next best thing.

Am I wrong to say that the top hat is your "leash" for your depower? Pretty nice set up.



First things first, sorry to hear about the nasty OBE and near catastrophic injury. Glad you got out of that in one piece. Second, yes, the top hat setup is a short Ozone leash that I use to attach my 5th line to my harness. That way I can pop the top hat if I have to get completely free of the kite. Five years ago on my first trip to Ivanpah I had to use the top hat. Through fault of my own I got a 9m Peak2 to go into a partially inflated pinwheeling death spasm and got my lines so barber-polled that I couldn't flag it out. Ended up chasing it about a mile down the playa. Good times.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures.




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-14-2019 at 05:25 PM


After some pretty fun work I am now at what I'll call the Windstruck AQR V-2.0. I played with having the dead man's strap come from the down tube just in front of the seat, but at this point I'm not comfortable with the angle of pull this sets up to actuate the shackle. I want the angle of pull as close as possible to perpendicular to the shackle's actuating mechanism when flying under load and I just wasn't pulling that off from the front so I switched back to using a stinger and bringing the dead man's strap up from between my legs again as I had things set up with Jeff's (BigKid) AQR.

I got some 750 lb military grade 5mm diameter paracord to create a loop for the shackle as well as a manual release "rip cord" of sorts. The rip cord incorporates about a 1" marble inside a 7-pass monkey fist. The monkey fist attaches to the primary SS ring with a series of cobra knots, a design I copied from some YouTube videos for making paracord key chains. I elected to make the parts bright safety orange because, well, it's a safety system.

Key to this AQR design for me was ease of engaging and disengaging, something I struggled with at times with my first AQR, particularly as I wear a full face helmet and I couldn't necessarily see what I was doing as I was digging around between my legs trying to find something to grab hold of and engage. Now, I can easily slap the SS ring into the carabiner even with my eyes closed. I'm pretty pleased with that part.

I suspect there will follow some fine tuning of the length of the dead man's strap coming up to the carabiner. The strap is a sturdy nylon belt to allow for this adjustment without having to swap out anything. I don't want the system so snug that I actuate the shackle during normal riding, but neither do I want my seat meat to be too high over the seat when the system pops open in an (please Lord) aborted OBE.

[img][/img]




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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Chook


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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 05:54 AM


You may have trouble activating the Wichard quick release with it mounted that way around.

Have to be very careful when you connect to the bar which side the orange cord is or you'll be pulling the wrong way to activate it.

Maybe a "single" cone to trigger it/lift the bar reliably facing that way round?

Maybe pass a loop of the orange cord through trigger gate of the Wichard then on up through to the attaching "Screwed shackle", so it lifts the gate reliably under strain. This would then foul the swivel though.

End for end it, but not sure the chicken loop on your kites control bar would then fit along with the spreader bar loop of your harness. AND kite would be attached to the buggy still.
It may if that's a 2674, 81mm long Wichard. But may struggle with a 2673 70mm one???

Double cones.
IMG_0508 small.jpg - 93kB




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Chook


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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 06:09 AM


Here are the measurements to build the cones I made.
Made from 5/16" stainless steel bolts. Measurements are in thousandths of an inch, except where noted.




IMG_0498 tiny.jpg - 114kB




Modified Sysmic S2 Buggys
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 08:00 AM


Chook - you raise a point that Cerebite and I have discussed off-line of PKF, viz., direction of pull to ensure you are not making an "eccentric" pull on the trigger gate. Please note that in this picture the shackle is just hanging down without being hooked into my chicken loop. Under use and load the shackle would be facing up so the paracord "loop" would not be pulling eccentrically. Orientation of the shackle is still important as you noted because depending on which way you twist it the paracord loop will either end up pulling on the trigger gate close to or far away from where the trigger gate pivots. I want the loop pulling on the trigger gate far away from its pivot point.

OBEs seem most likely when you let the kite power up when it is "behind" you while in motion or some other scenario when the kite is high in the air and powered up. In such settings the shackle would be vertical if not slightly oriented to the rear so when the bale opens the rigid side of the shack will be pretty much vertical too and the chicken loop should slide up and away without fouling up on the shackle.

This morning I cleaned up the "loop" between the shackle and SS ring with a second cobra knot series, leaving just enough room at the shackle to slide it over the tip of the shackle so I can reverse the shackle orientation. I sort of dig the way this looks and it makes everything clean.

Here are the specifics of the Wichard hardware I went with:

Wichard Snap Shackle Quick Release Large Swivel Eye, 3-1/2": WC2774
Wichard D Shackle 3/16" Pin: WC1402

[img][/img]




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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Cerebite




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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 12:04 PM


Just a couple of notes on your shackle connecting your winchard to your harness bar:
I usually do them so that the threads are on the downward side so if it backs out (more on that next) the pin will sort of stay in place with gravity assistance
Make sure that you use thread lock on that shackle pins do want to back our from the threads

Your system is really starting to look very clean and elegant




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ColinW




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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 01:30 PM


Nice clean looking setup. I love knots.
Is anybody else worried about where the monkey's fist will be swinging when it gets bumpy...watch YOUR marbles Steve.
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 02:29 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite  
Just a couple of notes on your shackle connecting your winchard to your harness bar:
I usually do them so that the threads are on the downward side so if it backs out (more on that next) the pin will sort of stay in place with gravity assistance
Make sure that you use thread lock on that shackle pins do want to back our from the threads

Your system is really starting to look very clean and elegant


Thank you for the compliments on design and finish. I took your design as a springboard and went from there. You have a keen eye. About an hour ago I actually did flip over the D shackle. Your comments about loctite are good if I had purchased just any old shackle. Thing is this particular D-shackle has a patented self locking feature (read about it here: http://www.apsltd.com/d-shackle-3-16-pin.html ). Simple but slick.




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-15-2019 at 03:54 PM


Quote: Originally posted by ColinW  
Nice clean looking setup. I love knots.
Is anybody else worried about where the monkey's fist will be swinging when it gets bumpy...watch YOUR marbles Steve.


Good point! I also tied a smaller five-pass monkeyball around about a 3/4" marble. Problem was it looked so darn small down there, so for proportionality reasons alone I went with the 7-pass monkeyfist shown in the photo. I'll bring the smaller monkeyfist with me and could switch it out pretty easily if the need (ouch!) arises. :karate:




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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Cerebite




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[*] posted on 6-17-2019 at 11:40 AM


ColinW/ Windstruck: I have been running a monkey fist in my AQR for quite a few years and have never had that issue. I think it comes down to the geometry of the situation: The bar tang, shackle and winchard put the fist about 5 cm out from "ground zero" statically and any angle of flight above the horizon will lift it an additional 3 -5 cm above ground zero so even factoring in the 3 cm "drop" of the monkey fist key chain the fist does not come anywhere close to "ground zero" during operations.


Interesting notes about Monkey Fists: when tied properly [and they seldom are] they do not have a core, it is only the line. Historically if you were caught with weighted fists on your lines the longshoremen would cut them off immediately as they pose a significant safety hazard when thrown or shot out of a line cannon.




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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-17-2019 at 12:30 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite  
ColinW/ Windstruck: I have been running a monkey fist in my AQR for quite a few years and have never had that issue. I think it comes down to the geometry of the situation: The bar tang, shackle and winchard put the fist about 5 cm out from "ground zero" statically and any angle of flight above the horizon will lift it an additional 3 -5 cm above ground zero so even factoring in the 3 cm "drop" of the monkey fist key chain the fist does not come anywhere close to "ground zero" during operations.


Interesting notes about Monkey Fists: when tied properly [and they seldom are] they do not have a core, it is only the line. Historically if you were caught with weighted fists on your lines the longshoremen would cut them off immediately as they pose a significant safety hazard when thrown or shot out of a line cannon.


All I can say if "phew!" - ground zero safe and sound.

Interesting bit of intel regarding monkey fists sans solid centers. Gonna have to learn me how to tie them official now. :karate:




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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Chook


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[*] posted on 6-19-2019 at 07:41 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
Please note that in this picture the shackle is just hanging down without being hooked into my chicken loop. Under use and load the shackle would be facing up so the paracord "loop" would not be pulling eccentrically. Orientation of the shackle is still important as you noted because depending on which way you twist it the paracord loop will either end up pulling on the trigger gate close to or far away from where the trigger gate pivots. I want the loop pulling on the trigger gate far away from its pivot point.

That looks really neat. A fantastic job!

My only concern here would be that the control bar can swivel taking the chicken loop assembly around with it and rotating the whichard into a position which tightens the cord and would maybe accidently fire it.
I think the safety aspect of your setup really over rules this though. Well done. Let us know how the testing goes.




Modified Sysmic S2 Buggys
7m R1
8m R1 2
11m R1
15m R1
15m Chrono 2
18m Chrono
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[*] posted on 6-19-2019 at 12:17 PM


Chook, I also had concerns about my shackle flipping over. I designed my spreader bar adaptor so it couldn't flip over. But I also run a pin style shackle. This way it is always pointing down towards the buggy seat.



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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 6-19-2019 at 01:29 PM


Quote: Originally posted by eric67m  
Chook, I also had concerns about my shackle flipping over. I designed my spreader bar adaptor so it couldn't flip over. But I also run a pin style shackle. This way it is always pointing down towards the buggy seat.


I've yet to try my newly minted AQR in actual field conditions. The closest I've come is sitting in my buggy seat in my garage and hooking in a chicken loop and bar and fiddling around trying to think about angles of pull during OBEs, etc. One thing I believe I observed is that with my original pin shackle that the angle of pull was not ideal when the kite was high overhead and the tether was coming up between my legs. Almost a 90 degree angle from ideal in fact. This angle, coincidentally, is an ideal angle from the style of shackle I'm using now.

Garage testing is just that. I need to get out and actually buggy and see what happens.




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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