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Author: Subject: Breaking Bad
Wind_dog


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[*] posted on 5-13-2019 at 05:10 PM
Breaking Bad


So here is a debatable topic . . . .

My last buggy was a Flexi with long wide axle.
Very nice buggy, relatively light and easy to transport, and stable for my needs at the time.

I'm now dialing in a Libre Full Race but a bit unhappy with its current performance. Before I invest time and materials to tweak it, I am interested in thoughts and ideas.

Running the same tires as the Flexi on the beach, the FR rear breaks out when the side pull gets moderate to strong. I feel it breaks too soon needing counter steering and losing efficiency. The front fork is full extended to fit my legs. Steering under those conditions is good.

ALTERNATIVE TUNING STRATEGIES:
1) Some folks say increase the weight on rear axle by moving my seat back (I am almost 100 kilos)
2) And/or add weight to rear axle.
3) From my sailing and windsurfing experience, I think that the center of effort (kite pull) is too far to the rear so the rear breaks to easily, too soon. A weather helm, in sailors lingo. To counteract that I should move the seat forward rather than backward.
4) Forward or backward there is not that much room to move the seat (unless a little means a lot.)
5) I think that adding extensions between the side rails and rear axle moves me thus the kites attachment forward and should balance things out. If this approach is on track, how much of an extension is reasonable?

OK, please let loose . . . . .




Always on the steep part of the learning curve.
Flying single skins:
Flysurfer Peaks. Born Longstar2 and Gin Shaman2
NAPKA US63
Riding in a Libre Fullrace with an AQR
And a Blokart when gust factor > 4.
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Juan


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[*] posted on 5-13-2019 at 10:29 PM


Sounds like you have long legs so that the center of effort is too far to the rear. I would try out extensions. I dont know the Libre ones, but they should measure around 10cm.
What kind of wheels do you use and whats your tire pressure?
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tomdiving




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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 04:48 AM


i would be firing this message directly to the libre company and see what their thoughts are.
you have nothing to lose by doing this and may gain some very valuable insight, all for the cost of a couple of minutes of typing.
tom
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BeamerBob


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 05:09 AM


I think you're on track with the extensions. This doesn't sound like too little weight on the rear axle.



Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 05:38 AM


Sandflea has some extensions. I am pretty sure you want to copy what he did. Not sure if you noticed? He used sqaure tubing.



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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Wind_dog


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 08:46 AM


Ok, think I have a plan:

All I need is some extensions.
That's all need.

And some Kenda Beach Racers.
Some extensions and some Beach Racers, that's all I need

And another PERFECT Sunset Beach weekend with West winds.
Some extensions, some Kenda Beach Racers and West winds.
That's all I need.

And more seat time.
Some extensions, some Kenda Beach Racers, West winds and more seat time.
That's all I need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh-gB07JftY




Always on the steep part of the learning curve.
Flying single skins:
Flysurfer Peaks. Born Longstar2 and Gin Shaman2
NAPKA US63
Riding in a Libre Fullrace with an AQR
And a Blokart when gust factor > 4.
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 09:27 AM


Don't forget your chair. You can't go kiting without your chair.



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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eric67m


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 11:48 AM


This sounds a lot like my buggy. I set the goose neck so I could steer properly. When I got to riding when fully powered the back end would break loose and I steer to correct, losing my line. I tried to move my seat back but a shorter person had my buggy previously and they cut the straps on the front very short. I was able to move my seat back about 1/4". This helped and I can hold a line better now but it is a reach to turn tight. I end up sitting back on long runs and scooting my butt forward when I need to turn tight.

I did make a set of weights over the winter and am also working on a set of brackets so they can be mounted between a wheel and 20mm axle. Rick you are welcome to try them out during spring SOBB.




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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eric67m


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 11:50 AM


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Wind_dog


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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 08:08 PM


More info on extending Libre sides for breaking more evenly when lucky
enough to be in the seat with a good pull.

Libre does make "tuning kits" as 10cm and 20 cm extensions.

Also, Blitz sent pics of a couple other extenders.

Pics of all 3 styles shared here.


TuningkitLibre.jpg - 32kB ext2.jpeg - 215kB ext3.jpeg - 221kB




Always on the steep part of the learning curve.
Flying single skins:
Flysurfer Peaks. Born Longstar2 and Gin Shaman2
NAPKA US63
Riding in a Libre Fullrace with an AQR
And a Blokart when gust factor > 4.
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Wind_dog


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Mood: Itchin' for the beach

[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 08:14 PM


One more pic resized to upload.

ext1.jpg - 172kB




Always on the steep part of the learning curve.
Flying single skins:
Flysurfer Peaks. Born Longstar2 and Gin Shaman2
NAPKA US63
Riding in a Libre Fullrace with an AQR
And a Blokart when gust factor > 4.
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eric67m


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Location: Monroe, Washington
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[*] posted on 5-14-2019 at 09:35 PM


On the silver adjustable style I have an incomplete set that is just the outer "female" sides. If someone has the other side you would have a set. They are yours if you want them.



Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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Wind_dog


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Mood: Itchin' for the beach

[*] posted on 6-2-2019 at 06:30 PM


SOBB was fantastic again this year for so many reasons. Great winds, friends, food and fireside fun.
Perhaps best for me was help from the veterans getting my buggy tuned!!
We added 3 inch extender on the back axle and moved the seat up 4 inches.
The result was a perfectly balanced buggy that tracks how I want it. Thanks to all that helped!




Always on the steep part of the learning curve.
Flying single skins:
Flysurfer Peaks. Born Longstar2 and Gin Shaman2
NAPKA US63
Riding in a Libre Fullrace with an AQR
And a Blokart when gust factor > 4.
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RedSky


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[*] posted on 6-2-2019 at 06:57 PM


Don't forget your special purpose.
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eric67m


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[*] posted on 6-2-2019 at 08:34 PM


I need to get my eyes recalibrated. I would have guessed that steel square stock was 2".

It's great that the balance is working better for you now.

I had a blast riding with you and everyone else at SOBB this last week.




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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