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Author: Subject: Any Paraski Flex experts here?
Randy


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[*] posted on 11-11-2018 at 09:00 PM
Any Paraski Flex experts here?


Hi

I just got a f10-60 on Ebay. Seemed like a very good deal - never used and looks new, but apparently a fairly old vintage. Anyway, I am hoping there are some her who have used this kite in the past who may help me understand it better. I downloaded some instructions which seem to be for the 2009 - 2010 vintage, but mine might be older. It does look like it works the same way, but the is only one long rod not 3 pieces which seem to have been used in later models. The bag it came in says #192 on it if that means anything.




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[*] posted on 11-11-2018 at 10:56 PM


I was really interested in those and kitewings as i learned about the sport of kite skiing (my entrance to power kiting) but I wound up with foils. Congratulations on your purchase and let us know how you get along.



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[*] posted on 11-12-2018 at 05:48 AM


Thanks. It looks simple enough and I seem to have what I need to get started. I'll keep you posted. While we normally don't have any snow in Georgia (and when do, it is impossible to go anywhere) I have seen videos where it is used with buggy''s, landboards and even kitesurfing in shallow water.



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[*] posted on 11-12-2018 at 06:07 PM


I've watched a couple YouTube videos of those things. Pretty cool. Good luck with it. Seems pretty simple to use






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[*] posted on 11-12-2018 at 09:05 PM


Single Skin!...with rod stiffened leading edge..

I have a different model Paraski Flex that was my very first powerkite(2006). It was 13.5meters . I used it on ice skates with one short lesson in only 3-5mph winds that day!

Mine had a zipper to shrink it's size by zippering some of the fabric up. and it had adjustment knots on bridal that you also used to change it and fly in 4 different modes, depending on the wind speed and giving it a wildly big wind range of 3mph to 35+mph to fly in....a kind of one kite quiver! This kite with the zipper is no longer made.


The kite you bought should have 3 modes for flying in different speed winds.

Important:
Did your purchase include the harness made specifically for these kites ?
The Paraski flex harness is a somewhat 'primitive' leg looped and waist wrap that uses a swivel PANIC SNAP as a SAFETY RELEASE. This panic snap is what you use to hook onto a metal ring that hangs off the control bar.

Also the panic slap slides from hip to hip on a line on the front of the harness....


If a Paraski Flex harness was not included in your purchase you will either need to buy it's special harness..... or... you can rig your present harness to accommodate a panic snap( these are cheap).. but you will have a fixed position of 'pull'(belly button), instead of it sliding from hip to hip(when turning). This is okay, though, but not preferred .

You may have seen these instructions but if not... .Instruction booklet on website ( not fully detailed but) .. go here:http://www.paraskiflex.com/media/uploads/products/document-en/GuideSerieF09EN.pdf


Also accessories like the harness are available...but, again, you may be able to rig a regular kite harness. You will at least need a swivel panic snap for a safety release.

A PKF member had set up the Paraski flex harness to be used with a depowerbar and foils in this video, but just view this to get a close up of the harness set up:.


These kites are great for snow(as all SS kites are as they shed snow) and...... they don't need staking out:o, nor a LEASH:o(When you hit safety release as they lay flat when grounded.


Also of note....the fly lines are relatively short at about 30 feet long. Good for tighter spaces.


Curious how much you paid for it...?
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Randy


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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 05:37 AM


Wow! Thanks for the info. I have an old windsurf harness that I think can easily be modified to work like the one in the video. That should be easy. I do have those instructions. I have found places to order the panic snap online but I am looking to see if there is a local supplier. It seems they are used for horse riders (??).

First questions that comes to mind - mine also has the zipper in it. It seems from some older instruction I found (written in French) that you zip it up for "storm mode". Is that the case?

Also I don't seem to have any line that could be used to put the kite in "half storm" mode. I guess that is just something I could make, but wasn't sure about the lengths of the line. It seems from the instructions you can vary the width to about anything you want. Does that sound right?




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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 07:13 AM


Randy - Cool looking kite. I look forward to reading your review and impressions.



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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 07:25 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
I have found places to order the panic snap online but I am looking to see if there is a local supplier. It seems they are used for horse riders (??).


I have seen snap clips like that at my local farm supply / co-op store.




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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 08:38 AM


Actually the zipper mode is NOT storm mode but for 'moderate' winds in my booklet. Storm mode is unzipped with end tips tethered to each other.

The Pdf instructions on line do not show a ZIPPED mode diagram ...so you may have an older version of that model. None of the present model kites seems to show any kite with a zipper( looked at a few's instructions). You might contact them by e-mail or phone for instructions on your older model explaining you have a zipper and no available directions.

You may now have 4 modes and not 3 as I first thought.
You must make sure you have made the correct bridal point attachment variation for each mode or it wont fly right. Most of these are fairly simple though...


Also make sure the Panic Snap(yes, most common to horse husbandry) has the swivel end(360 degree spin) and is not fixed.


You can use any line to tie ends together in SEMI-STORM mode. Your model is different size than mine (which used a 30 inch piece) unfortunately, and the diagram is undefined(what length) in the on-line pdf booklet...so... that is another important thing to ask if you contact them by phone or e-mail. It seems you need two carabiners to attach it. Also, there is are several loop on this line to vary how much you 'taco' your kite(and pull ends together) . The more you bring the tips together the less powerl to compensate higher winds. This actually adds in addition 'sub-modes' to deal with high wind conditions. Also the piece is not available under 'accessories'..nor is harness for that matter... but they may be out of stock. Still you could make the line piece or several of different lengths.


So, you have a little work ahead of you... but they are fun kites.

Ideally you fly with just one hand on the bar.

You have to work this kite to jump as it's not a lifty kite. and with the safety release, together, you have a kite that is safer than many others.

It's an odd looking site when flying in 'taco' shape!


...good luck
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Randy


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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 10:15 AM


Thanks. I do hope to get this going soon and the harness project is underway. I should have a panic snap (with swivel) soon.

Upon reading the translation again it appear the zipper is way for a partial "depower' w/o having to go to storm mode.

The 2003 vintage instructions I found say:

Use in strong winds: Zipper the zipper or put in storm mode if the wind is too strong. Install the leash: attach one end to the front of the sail and pass the other to your harness belt.

Storm mode: Connect the flanges in "1" and "2" by buttoning on itself the cord that is there (see drawing on the bottom right). Move the lines of direction towards the rope on the third flange in "3". Connect the tips in "4". Do not forget to put the leash: the sail deflates less easily in storm mode and you can lose it if you escape.


@skinwashington - the model I have came in a big flat bag with a rounded top about 3ft by 4 ft. The spar has to be folded up to get into the bag if that gives any clue to the vintage.






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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 02:51 PM





My kite fit in a long ~ 5-6ft by 6-8 inch tube of a bag....slid in from one end. Don't know about others.


I forgot when it's in storm mode it wont really lie flat and so it may blow away without a leash in taco shape. Don't ask where you would attach the leash to kite's bridal..? Maybe one more question for the maker...?


I used my kite 95+ % of the time in full or zipped mode where it would lay flat and need no stake or leash. I seem to get a lot of wind range in just those two modes. Most videos show flying in these two modes. You'd remember the flying taco shape!


Your most important task after getting harness set up is to remember the bridal point adjustments( carry a copy of different mode diagrams with you). Make sure you're on the right 'knot' for that mode. The simplest adjustment are for these two modes ...going from one to the other...after zipping or unzipping.


Curious to see your final harness set up..

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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 06:19 PM


Here is a picture of the harness and kite. Once I get the panic snap should be done.

I think the newer models have three piece spars while mine is one piece.

I appreciate your comment about using it mainly in regular or zip setup - I'll concentrate on that for now.

20181113_201344_resized.jpg - 129kB




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[*] posted on 11-13-2018 at 07:43 PM


hmnn...that's not bad.

But...barely leg loops ! Primative. but if it keeps it from rising up the waist, that's good.


The bag looks more like a plastic bag 'cause you can see through it...?


Are you sure it's one spar and not a sectioned shock corded joining of several pieces. Did you slide it out of it'd sleeve(or can you) and look at it? that would be a long spar, and not typical(especially from manufacturing logics).
Mine is 5 sections that I slid into leading edge sleeve... for about 20 ft together.

Your set- as sitting- is pop it out and go then, regardless if it's one long spar or not. That's a plus.

Hope to hear how it goes..(video?)

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[*] posted on 11-14-2018 at 07:32 AM


The bag is actually a sort of translucent tarp type material. It has strands of fiber's woven through it. It has a zipper to close the bag. I have not been able to find any place on the kite to allow the spar to be removed. Feeling alone the spar sleeve I have not found anything that feels like a joint or ferrule. Considering that they made this size and style bag for it, I suspect it is only one piece. I'm going to send an email to Parskiflex to see if they can tell me the vintage, etc. Who knows - considering its perfect condition perhaps will want put it in a museum and give me new model. ;)



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[*] posted on 11-14-2018 at 10:01 PM


How do those horse shackles hold up / release under extreme load. They look nice and this is the first time I've seen them. Usually the ones you find at west marine are what's posted here.



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[*] posted on 11-14-2018 at 10:15 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
The bag is actually a sort of translucent tarp type material. It has strands of fiber's woven through it. It has a zipper to close the bag. I have not been able to find any place on the kite to allow the spar to be removed. Feeling alone the spar sleeve I have not found anything that feels like a joint or ferrule. Considering that they made this size and style bag for it, I suspect it is only one piece. I'm going to send an email to Parskiflex to see if they can tell me the vintage, etc. Who knows - considering its perfect condition perhaps will want put it in a museum and give me new model. ;)


As an old time dual line / framed kite flier, I can tell you that you can probably find ferrules for that tube if you want to cut it down to make it easier to pack. As them what tube it is (mm) and see if they have ferrules or check online. Probably a pretty beefy tube that would work with an external ferrule and then some tube inserts for reinforcement. Tape the tube before you cut to prevent splintering.




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[*] posted on 11-15-2018 at 09:01 AM



Quote:

How do those horse shackles hold up / release under extreme load


The Panic Snap is reliable. Last quite a while before wearing out I would think.

I have always thought of adding a panic snap into Fixed Bridal flying as there is no safety release and might make things...well...safer!

Theres the AQR exception for my statement- for buggy riders -but relatively few are using them.(and I know AQR is even safer than manual quick releases as it takes pilot thought and action out of equation). But what about those riding on ATB ,in-lines, ice skates...?


The panic snap could be added in for all types of riders using FB kites with a STROP LINE. Just add panic snap on harness at spreader bar's hook , either replacing hook or an extension off the hook. Attaching it as close to belt will keep the arm reach and positioning the same.

This said, again, it's not an AQR and relies on pilot quick thinking, Some times you just won't have the time to think or be in a bad position, but other times you might free yourself from harm. So still better than nothing.

So far I have not tried this. On high wind / gusty days I will often fly off-stop.... and that(my hands) are my safety release(and my anxiety release) ! Other than that... I have just always relied on safe piloting choices... but I think about it(panic snap)...

BTW...I'm thinking releasing a FB kite with handles tethered by a strop line, creates more of a run away kite problem than un-stroped handles.... And I don't think a leash for this set-up is safe either... What'ya think?
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[*] posted on 11-15-2018 at 06:27 PM
Buy the quick release from paraskifex






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[*] posted on 11-15-2018 at 06:28 PM


Paraskiflex.com sells the quick release so give them a call. They are cheap compared to a chickenloop and safer than hardware store stuff.



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[*] posted on 11-15-2018 at 06:40 PM


Call them. They answere the phone whenever I called and have never answered an email. People on the phone speak English.



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[*] posted on 11-16-2018 at 08:04 AM


It flies!! Flew it this morning in pretty light winds (5-10?) at a nearby park. Shortest lines (5 ft?) w/o harness but got the idea. When there was enough wind to keep it flying it was not hard to control. Lots of power and it seemed to have a pretty big window. It came with 30ft extensions should that cover a lot of wind range. Started out half zipped - wouldn't fly that way, but once I spotted that and fixed it it took right off.



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[*] posted on 11-16-2018 at 11:44 AM


Any Video?:bisou:


The standard fly line length is 30 ft -so those aren't extensions....them's the real fly lines!!

Don(doneski) has bought and used 'extension lines but they were more than 5ft.
5 feet is nothing. Maybe they were 15 ft... at least. He might chime in to say.


I forgot and left this out previously but:

You really need to be attached to harness to fly and control properly...and easily. When you hook the control bar's hanging ring into the panic snap it holds the kite in position so all you have to do is turn bar with one hand.

Yes, You CAN fly unattached(I have accidently forgot to clip in and I felt the awkwardness/less control right away and clipped in immediately!) but it's actually harder and even awkward( in strong winds especially)... it's MUCH easier to control with your body holding the kite and hand controlling bar/turning . It can be as subtle as turning a door knob...the input from just a small degree of twist.




**Please note: the small cord holding the RING you clip into is attached to bar is placed at a precise balance point .Make a mental note.. do not loosen and slide this any anywhere else along the bar.You will loose almost all real control if so.


(When the bar is balanced and kite 'inflated' both ends should be equal distance from you or under same pressure.... and NOT one bar end pulling dramatically more forward)



This bar is not related to a depower bar in any way!


I suggest, obviously, trying again with 30 ft fly lines and clipped ( by panic snap) into harness.

Didn't get one yet? ....Get it quick!



You'll see..


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[*] posted on 11-16-2018 at 02:54 PM


No video yet. Just got the panic snap today. So I'm ready to fly harnessed. Unfortunately it came after I got back from buggy riding. I did manage a few buggy runs (the best one was going uphill ;)) but I realised that the kite really needs to be hooked in to get the balance right. Winds were reported as only 5-10 at the time, so it just wasn't enough and I think the imbalance was probably causing backstalls. (I tried 3 other kites along the way including a 5.5 NS2 - none worked very well.)

So now all I need is wind - which doesn't seem like it is coming very soon. Stay tuned to this channel and thanks for the suggestions.




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[*] posted on 11-18-2018 at 10:45 AM


@skimtwashington - BTW - to understand the sizing. I have NPW 21 - 2.5, 3.75 and 5.0 along with NS2 5.5 and 7.0. Where does the wind range/power of the F10-60 fit with these NPW's.



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[*] posted on 11-18-2018 at 11:47 AM


I never flew your model. But..

The listing on the website said present incarnation of your model is 8.68 meters. Your old model..? Probably close to that.


Remember these fly with a curl shape- say like an arc- so less power per meter than a 'flatter' profile like a FB foil...or even probably most SS like NPW or the Borns.


Been so long...hard to compare -and never did... but I would only guess to say my 13+meter Paraski Flex flew equivalent to something like 6-7m in FB size fully open(unzipped)..and maybe even a meter less. Tough to say. Your Paraski Flex might be equivalent to your 5. or 5.5m or even a bit smaller...

Don't forget, with all your modes for that kite (zipped, unzipped, storm, semi-storm) you'll have a WIDE range of wind speed this kite will work well in...if you like it.


You'll find out...
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[*] posted on 11-18-2018 at 12:27 PM


Thanks. I thought maybe it would be somewhere around a 5 NPW. 8.68 M sounds right - I could measure it next time I unfold. It did seem the other day that as soon as there was enough wind to fly it, it had plenty of pull for my buggy. I had already tried my 3.75 NPW and 4.5 g-kite, which were underpowered. From the little I have seen so far - I think I will like it a lot. Might have some wind in a few days now.

BTW - I registered the kite with Paraski and sent them a few questions but haven not heard back yet.




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[*] posted on 11-18-2018 at 04:12 PM


You likely won't hear from them based on Don's experience.
From donski's earlier post:


Quote:

Call them. They answere the phone whenever I called and (they) have NEVER ANSWERED AN EMAIL. People on the phone speak English.





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[*] posted on 11-18-2018 at 04:27 PM


Thanks. Was worried they would not speak English. BTW - found a video of the Paraski Flex used with kite buggy.









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[*] posted on 11-20-2018 at 07:57 PM


A quick video of my Paraski flex with proper harness today at the lake. Mostly just launching, back forth flying, walking with the kite and landing. Nothing exciting but have to start somewhere. Did manage a scud across the beach. Only did that once before. This was the first time I did it intentionally. The video shows both the zipped (at the start) and unzipped flying. Zipping does seem to make it less powerful and needs more win to launch. It also has a reverse effect on the wind - zip it up and wind drops, unzip it and wind suddenly gets stronger. ;)







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[*] posted on 11-20-2018 at 10:53 PM


I noticed it zipped at the end .

Though it looked like it was flying okay...
Did you remember/know to move Line 'A' onto the next knot when you flew in zipped mode?

Make sure you have the 'A' line on the right knot , or it will not fly well.


Present on-line 'guide' on the F10-60 Does NOT SHOW ZIPPED MODE DIAGRAM.

So...What knot? I don't see your year model on-line or it's GUIDEBOOK DIAGRAM for MODE SETTINGS.

This may help:
On my different but also zip-able model(F5-30) ,:
* for ZIPPED mode I move line 'A' to longest or last knot from bar.
**Fully open in UNZIPPED mode, LINE 'A" I put on middle or second knot.

Might work same with yours...likely.

Always trial and error if not(not the knot). If it doesn't seem to fly right....move it one knot(up or down) and try again. This is for these two modes (unzipped and zipped)

Those two modes are easy..... the 3rd mode to try(not as simple)......in high winds..is Half-Storm mode,:
Move line 'A' to shortes knot(closest to control bar). Then add line of cord across wing tips....where you attach a varying length(single length w/ 3 loops on one end at different length points) attach by 'biners to kite edgetips(or you might find another way to attach?). Might be trial and error because on my diagram and the 2009 guide for Half-Storm or SEMI-Storm is different . (If you DON'T have an unknown short piece of cord that hangs from leading edge (Rod sleeve) a foot or two from tips on your model??...Then that is all you do for Half storm. If you DO have this line you have to move Directional line to it )

Try a piece of cord from a 5 feet to 8 feet long to connect tips in Half Storm ..According to website diagram /pdf guide ... see how that works. The shorter the piece the more power you'll lose .This is how you can adjust it to fly not overpowered in different high(er) wind speeds.


If I am not right and to save too much trial and error I would THEN try and get your older model guide book for correct adjustment diagrams....page copies- by mail or e-mail. Call them.


Also...
Try flying using one hand. Hand should be balanced around the middle of bar.

Bonne Chance..
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