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Author: Subject: Having trouble launching
WastedHat
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 01:12 PM
Having trouble launching


Hi, I just got my first kite a few weeks ago, a Peter Lynn Hornet 3m with a bar.

I live 5 minutes from the highest point in central Scotland and found a really nice field up in the hills to fly. Been out the past 3 days in 12mph with 20mph gusts (according to weather report) and had a lot of fun getting a feel for the kite.

My only issue at the moment is launching. The kite will get to around 2-3m from the ground and stall, then it'll try to spin in either direction and end up back on the ground. It'll do this in low and high wind.

To lunch normally I give it a single tug until it's off the ground, then if it starts to stall and turn I try to counter it by pulling on the line to steer it away from the ground but it's very unresponsive in this positon. I would say about 20% of the time I can find some forward momentum and lunch first time without stalling.


Anything obvious that I'm doing wrong? Thanks.
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Windstruck
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 01:37 PM


Quote: Originally posted by WastedHat  
Hi, I just got my first kite a few weeks ago, a Peter Lynn Hornet 3m with a bar.

I live 5 minutes from the highest point in central Scotland and found a really nice field up in the hills to fly. Been out the past 3 days in 12mph with 20mph gusts (according to weather report) and had a lot of fun getting a feel for the kite.

My only issue at the moment is launching. The kite will get to around 2-3m from the ground and stall, then it'll try to spin in either direction and end up back on the ground. It'll do this in low and high wind.

To lunch normally I give it a single tug until it's off the ground, then if it starts to stall and turn I try to counter it by pulling on the line to steer it away from the ground but it's very unresponsive in this positon. I would say about 20% of the time I can find some forward momentum and lunch first time without stalling.



Welcome to PKF. It sounds as if you've found a great kite spot. Any plans for getting mobile (buggy, landboard, etc.)?

While I don't know your exact bar setup, a 3m Hornet is a solid Fixed Bridle (FB) kite with power (upper) and brake (lower) lines. Upper and lower may make more sense if your were flying the kite from handles. Kites like these are generally more fun and engaging when flown from handles. A FB kite on a bar can be a sort of "sluggish" experience.

What I suspect has happened is that your brake lines are a little too short relative to your front or power lines. There are often some knots that your can slide the lines over on one end or the other of the long lines to adjust the relative lengths of the power and brake lines. This will either be on the so called pigtails at the bar (the thicker short lines the long lines are knotted to) or out at the kite at the end of the bridling (the thinner spider web of lines on the kite itself). When adjusting be sure to keep left to right even or you'll have a new set of problems. When properly adjusted the top or power lines will be taught while the lower brake lines will feel a little looser.

If you get the chance to switch over to handles this will take care of itself.

Good luck!




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NasaStar-5 (2.5m, 4.0m)
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NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Ozone kites:
Access (6.0m)

Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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WastedHat
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 02:10 PM


Hi thanks for the info! that makes sense. The break lines do seem to hang looser but I was wondering if they still had something to do with it. I'll look into getting some handles next, I don't think I'm confident enough to add extra knots to the lines, I read some other posts saying even tiny adjustments make a difference.

I'm using the Peter Lynn 4-Line Power Kite Control Bar, according to the description "This design of the bar works great with kites that fly well without the need of brake line steering such as the Peter Lynn Hornet, Pepper II and Peter Lynn Twister."

I wanted to learn how to kite surf which is why I got the bar but I'm realizing it's quite a big learning curve. I think I'll be happy to mess around on land for my first year, especially after seeing the wipe outs on YouTube.

I got a second hand mountain board, can't wait until I get better at flying so I can test it!


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abkayak
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 02:26 PM


welcome around:thumbup:
if it flew well previous and you've changed nothing then...
make sure the bridle lines aren't hung up on each other..
spread everything open up at the kite and make sure it stands up in the wind while your up there
then walk back your lines again...but i 2nd handles as well
there can be only one, sorry



US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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jeffnyc
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 02:51 PM


Sometimes it takes more than one pull to get the kite up - you might just be stalling in light wind until it gets higher.

*Edit... sorry! Thought this was the crossover bar - You have the one that just pulls the brakes when you steer. Posts suggesting loosening brakes + checking bridles are correct :D
Also I 2nd or 3rd handles.
I'll leave the crossover stuff here, just cuz they're good vids... back to the heavy drinking.

(crossover)
Or you could be pulling the bar in when you launch? That will engage the brakes and stall the kite as well.

Notice on this vid at about 3:40 how John holds the bar completely forward on launch, keeping the brake lines slack.



And another vid with your exact bar (I think they bothe work pretty much the same)...


A depower bar works a bit differently, what you will be learning from that kite will be handling, control, and wind window. You'll have fun on your board - wear helmet/pads and start somewhere gentle, and light/med steady wind if you can. I started last fall with the same goal of getting to water, been having a blast on my mountain board and started water this summer. Don't forget to get a snowboard or some skis for this winter :D



Foil: Speed5 18+12 | Speed3 15 | Sonic2 9m | Peak 5 4m
Arc: Phantom I 12m+18m
LEI: LF WOW 9m
FB: Flux 5m | Bullet 4.5 | Blurr 3.5 + 2.5 | Rage 2.5 | Beamer 1.8
Ride: Flexi Haize | MBS core 90 | SS Vision 140 | Mako 140 + King 165 | King Gee | SS Hover Glide | WB 5'6" | Burton Floater
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 02:52 PM


Just to be clear, I am NOT suggesting you make any new knots, particularly to the long lines. Rather, the long lines likely have little loops on their ends that get formed into what are known as larkshead knots. These larkshead knots slide over pigtails that often have several knots on them, thus allowing you to change the lengths of the total brake or power system (but not the line lengths themselves).

I can't begin to count the number of people that get a FB kite as their first kite and then get a bar to get used to bar action for eventual mobile kiting whether it be with wheels, skis, or water boards. Bottom line, the FB with a bar just isn't very much like mobile kiting with a so-called De-Power (DP) kite flown from a bar with a harness. What most people will tell you here is to get handles and learn how a kite actually flies using all four lines separately. It is this learning that actually sets you up for your future flying endeavors, not the bar. Kites behave in certain ways in the wind throughout the wind window and are affected by power and brake line input in different ways. Learning all that sort of stuff is the core of it.

Have fun!



Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m)
NasaStar-5 (2.5m, 4.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Ozone kites:
Access (6.0m)

Flysurfer Kites:
Peak-5 (2.5m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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skimtwashington
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 03:20 PM




Check that all 4 lines are the same length( within about inch or so)..If you see the 'top' lines are longer than the two brake lines, that's the issue.


The top powerlines can stretch on a new kite and sometimes need an adjustment..

....that is, you need to move the larkshead ( looped end of powerline ) to a knot closer to handles than the distance the brake lines are from it. The line your repositioning the powerline on is the LEAD LINE that comes out of the handle. There may be adjustment knots on it or you may have to make a new knot on the handles' lead line. You can do trial and error or if you go to first directive to check all 4 lines, you will see exactly how many inches.


BTW... if all 4 lines are equal length then there's another issue.
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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 04:00 PM


You would think that using a bar to train for kitesurfing is the way to go but it isn't exactly.

The kite you have is designed to fly using all 4 lines on handles and that is a good thing. Your next kite will be a 4 line depower kite if you are riding a board on land or water. You will learn a whole lot more about how all 4 lines effect the kite with handles. How the kites fly on the front lines and the back lines create stall. Depower kites fly on the front lines through your harness and you sort of do brake turns + slow the kite through the bar. Understanding that whole front line back line thing will help you understand how to fly depower more so than dumbing a fixed bridle like yours down with a bar.

3m is a great size for starting out. You made a good choice. You will be able to get rolling on your board but here comes the catch.

You need a real strong wind to be able to do anything but downwinders with a 3m kite. Even with experience I don't like riding ATB with a 3m. There just isn't enough canopy to really lean against and strong winds are usually gusty.

That said, you can also consider using your 3m with handles straight off the bridle or with very short fly lines and a skateboard ( or rollerblades ) . The low rolling resistance makes staying upwind easy.

Get a harness and get comfortable flying your 3m hooked in with handles and a strop. Next step is to get a larger depower kite sized to your most common winds. It will have the power you really need to stay upwind on a board.

All of your issues sound like brake line interferance. When I went through my FB bar phase I was amazed at how little any weight ( like a small pulley on a crossover ) played on the brakes. It was dramatic on a 3m. I think your kite and lines are fine the problem is the bar.



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

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[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 08:37 PM


Check the line lengths and put some more slack in the lower (brake) lines as others have suggested. Make sure the kite is well inflated also. Your can do that a number of ways but simply holding it up to the wind so it can fill with air is an easy way to do it. I've seen kites do what you describe simply because they wren't filled up with air.



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WastedHat
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[*] posted on 11-8-2018 at 12:54 PM


All the info is much appreciated!

I see what you mean about the knots on the bridle end but mines only have 1 on each, I think I'll keep it that way it is for now and go for the handles like everyone suggested.


At the moment I'm looking at "Peter Lynn Freestyle 4-Line Handles with Safety System" and I have 2 size options:

Small - 30cm - up to 3m kites
Large - 40cm - over 5m kites

Any suggestions on what size? I was thinking maybe the large will be better in case I get a bigger kite in the near future?


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[*] posted on 11-8-2018 at 01:36 PM


If your goal is to ride a board on land or water you are best advised to look at depower kites for your next investment. Very few people prefer FB on ATB and almost nobody use them on water.

With that in mind the small handles are best. Even if you get a larger FB it is best to have each kite ready to fly and with the proper sized handles for each.

Your best next investment will be a harness. You need to decide if you want a seat harness or waist. Seat is nice on land but on general board riders tend to prefer waist. I have both but my seat harness is best. I am super skinny and no waist to grab a harness.





Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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[*] posted on 5-9-2018 at 09:25 AM


Hi I ment to check back in sooner. The handles made all the difference!

I tried the ATB for the first time a few days ago, had a nice 12-17mph cross onshore wind. Managed to get some good runs down the beach but I had to stay really close to the water line. Every now and then I would hit soft sand and kook slam. I know a big hard sand beach so I'm just waiting for the right wind.

What depower kites would you recommend for land and water use? I was looking at the Flysurfer Viron 2 Dlx Trainer Kitesurf Kite. But maybe theres something thats better for progression?

It's way over my budget for this year so I'm tempted to get larger 4 line fixed bridle for lower winds, maybe a 4.7 Rage.
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[*] posted on 5-9-2018 at 01:19 PM


Granny tires for the softer sand. Seriously, it's the best upgrade I ever did - I was murdering my shoulder on those slams. And they're great no matter what the environment. I don't even feel potholes at the airport.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=34045#pid32...
Lots of other info here and on Extreme, search for granny tires.

Rage is a great kite, can't go wrong with that.



Foil: Speed5 18+12 | Speed3 15 | Sonic2 9m | Peak 5 4m
Arc: Phantom I 12m+18m
LEI: LF WOW 9m
FB: Flux 5m | Bullet 4.5 | Blurr 3.5 + 2.5 | Rage 2.5 | Beamer 1.8
Ride: Flexi Haize | MBS core 90 | SS Vision 140 | Mako 140 + King 165 | King Gee | SS Hover Glide | WB 5'6" | Burton Floater
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[*] posted on 12-9-2018 at 02:47 PM


If money is a concern skip the Viron.

1st you need a harness so you can get comfortable flying that 3m hooked in. Pay special attention to how you take front line power through your harness and turn + slow the kite with your back lines. Getting that in your head makes moving to depower much easier.

After that you should consider going straight to LEI kites. Closed cell foil kites work on water but are not ideal for learning. LEI can be picked up cheap.Don't buy very old LEI or C kite models. Hybred or bow kites are better for starting out. Crossbows and Waroo / Bularoo are often available cheap.

Great to here you are moving on the 3m. If you can ride with a 3m bigger kites will be super easy.





Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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