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Author: Subject: Full power or Full flaps ?
Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 03:16 PM
Full power or Full flaps ?


When I set up my depower bar I have been adjusting the trim strap as follows:

With the bar at or near the limit of my comfortable reach my bar is fully depowered with slack brake lines. I would need to pull quite a lot on one side or the other to steer.

In the middle of my bar throw along the depower line there is a sweet spot which moves a little requiring small pull and release motions of the bar along the line to maintain desired power.

When the bar is pulled all the way in to the swivel the kite freezes and descends rapidly although with considerable pressure. The kite backs down like it had full flaps applied.

Some say the full in position of my bar should be maximum boost, not stall.
So set me straight please. Or better yet, set everyone straight who's new. :puzzled:





Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, and a PL buggy. US01
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cheezycheese


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[*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 03:30 PM


Which kite...? Static or in motion...?



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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 03:56 PM


Ed, assuming you are talking about being in motion in your buggy (over gravel) I might suggest adjusting the trim line such that your kite is powered up "just right" with the bar all the way in or maybe an inch or two from all the way in. I'm saying this because for me I am most comfortable flying in the buggy with the bar all the way in. I do use an AQR winchard that I loop my chicken loop through so my bar is a few inches further away from my body than it would be if I were hooking in directly from my harness. If I don't adjust the trim line this way then I end up flying with my arms too far outstretched to the downwind side.

The amount of trim line can vary on the same kite depending on the conditions. I typically hot launch with the trim line pulled quite a bit in (more than I expect to fly with). Once rolling I quickly adjust the trim by pulling the bar all the way in and then adjusting the trim line to the desired length to optimally (in my view) DP the kite. Easy peasy nice and easy. Good luck!




Born-Kites:
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NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

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Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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RedSky


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[*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 04:06 PM


You're choking the kite. In low wind its easy to back-stall ( the kite comes down trailing edge first ). You'll have to trim the kite so that it can breathe a little. Sounds like you're flying the kite outside of its wind range or on the very limit. Try flying it in stronger wind and you won't have any problems.
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Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 04:39 PM


I don't have any problem. I just have the ability to stall my kite if I want to.
If I trim in or shorten the flying lines I can take away the stall setting easily.
Like Steve does on the launch he describes.

Let me try this a different way.

Where would you send a newbie to learn how to adjust the trim strap on a depower kite?
Do the manufacturers have instructions, or is there an accepted method taught at kite school?

I'm looking for a link.

Here's what I went by from the beginning. Okay so far. https://youtu.be/tBXL2zTqHoo

Before this instruction I would find myself leaning too much on the downwind side of my bug in a fast or skidding turn. Leaning toward the kite is not good when it powers out of the turn. Now I can lean back and hike out a little in case I don't want to dump power in a turn. So...in motion for sure.







Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, and a PL buggy. US01
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Chook


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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 07:50 AM


I agree with the video totally while flying my Ozone foil race kites. (That is all the depowers I now use) I have crook shoulders and need to be comfortable for long sessions in the buggy.

Line tuning is really important too as your lines age and get shorter. (Mixed ideas going round if lines stretch or shrink) This gradually changes the original trim position as well.

Ozone "Race" bars I run, all have the same 4 line lengths, so really easy to tune. Sometimes even having to add pigtails to get them to match. I've not had so much trouble since I've changed to Q-Power lines.


Tune your Ozone bar.
https://novom.ru/en/watch/M5PxjnOxLac

I have an old 19m2 Flysurfer "Silver Arrow" that is in mint condition and has a 800mm bar. It's enormous!!!! Turns like a truck too.


Flysurfer 800.jpg - 129kB




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Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 08:23 AM


10-4 I put a Slingshot 80cm on my NASA 12m and it will turn, as the biceps burn.
Occasionally feel the bar end brush a tire, what was that!?

So me and Skippy are on board, any other comments from this huge bank of....knowledge?




Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, and a PL buggy. US01
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jeffnyc




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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 11:07 AM


Not that I'm super experienced here, but I've been reading a ton about this since I'm building/rebuilding a couple bars - the vid is spot on. Adjust your lines so all same length. Then tune your bridles (or add pigtails) if you need to - whole other ball of wax, as Chook notes. The "factory settings" he talks about in the vid can be messed with on the bridle side - I think he's just simplifying the explanation for noobs.

I like my Gins set the same way you have yours, Ed - I can pull in and land them in lighter wind, don't even have to touch the strap or lines. More wind I go with the strap. One thing I'm learning now with the big kites (speed 21m) in light air is giving it a lot of trim so you don't stall the kite. As the sail gets more air your backlines get more tension as well, so good to have a little room up top to maneuver there.

As a side note - Jeff Howard is playing around with making the simplest bar possible - he calls it the KISS system. Looks like he's just pulling ideas from a lot of the bars out there, but I like where he's going with it. The only downside I see right now is he feels there's no need for a leash or 4th line safety - but anything you want can easily be swapped/added.


Anyway, wind looks nice - time to get out there!




Foil: Speed5 18+12 | Speed3 15 | Sonic2 9m
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Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 7-11-2018 at 03:18 AM


Thanks Jeff, I was feeling lonely. Thing is if I was doing it all wrong I might still somehow make it work for me but still be all wrong.

When I discovered the single line kite reel they were a China only product and came with no instructions. If you fish you'll understand what I did. I'm left handed so I wound all my new reels backwards. The line guide on a reel don't work so good if you wind the reel backwards.
But I put it down to inexperience and learned to use them.
One day I got sent a wound reel. She put the line on so it would all fit in the box.
So I realized I now owned 9 reels with 5000' of line all backwards and one that was correct.

I guess we all think we are pretty bright fellows, above average at least, however getting started on the wrong track can go a long way before you get schooled and I was making sure I wasn't the lone stranger on this bar thing.

I mean what if Windstruck was correct and I had to Agree and thank him. Too horrible to contemplate :lol:




Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, and a PL buggy. US01
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