joedy
Posts: 326
Registered: 6-28-2010
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Flysurfer Speed 3 - Water starts and planning
Recently I tried to fly my FS Speed 3 19m meter kite. It's been two years since I last kiteboarded.
Winds were low. Maybe 8 to 10 knots, with some gusts a little higher.
I'm 200 pounds and rode a Spleen 154 door.
The kite had plenty of pull for getting me up out of the water and on plane, but as I planed downwind slightly, the kite never seemed to click into
gear with apparent wind.
I'm wondering if I was inadvertently stalling the kite by trying to get more power out of it once I was up planning, but obviously losing speed and
pull. I'm also wondering if the low winds were just too low or beyond my beginner skill set?
The wind was onshore and I'm wondering if my short walk out about 50 feet was not enough space to allow me to go downwind (towards the shore)
sufficiently.
I can't seem to figure out what I was doing wrong. The local guys all ride LEIs and enjoyed watching me, but claimed that there just wasn't enough
wind. I'm curious to know if that is more likely the case or if it was just kiter error? It seems strange that the Speed generated a lot of pull to
get me quickly up on plane, but then the pull seemed to disappear as soon as I started moving.
Do you guys have any suggestions to help my next session?
Flysurfer Speed3 19m Deluxe
Liquid Force Envy 12m
Flysurfer Pulse2 12m
HQ Matrixx 15m
HQ Hydra 350
_______________
Mako 140
Spleene Door 154
Litewave Spirit 132
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
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8-10 is pretty low for a TT, even for a foil kite.
It's all about speed -- you need board speed to build apparent wind, so you have to let the kite fly. Trim it some so you're not choking it.
Flat water and a good tide will help.
How long are your lines? Do you have the 6m extensions on?
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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joedy
Posts: 326
Registered: 6-28-2010
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Standard length FS lines. I bought the kite used and there were no extensions with it.
Will trying to edge too soon after getting on board choke the kite, too?
I noticed that as I started to dip back in the water that the kite never made it to the edge. If directly downwind is considered 6 o'clock, the Speed
3 maybe made it to the 5 o'clock position. When I've rode in the past (granted, with more wind) the Speed would race to the 2 and 3 o'clock positions.
Should the bar be all the way out when trying to build apparent speed?
Flysurfer Speed3 19m Deluxe
Liquid Force Envy 12m
Flysurfer Pulse2 12m
HQ Matrixx 15m
HQ Hydra 350
_______________
Mako 140
Spleene Door 154
Litewave Spirit 132
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Demoknight
Posts: 1150
Registered: 6-7-2013
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Mood: ADIDAK
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That doesn't sound like a Speed 3's regular behavior. I am typically able to go almost straight down wind with my Speed 3 just pulling the bar in and
letting the 19m tractor trailer start settling down and pulling harder and harder. This is in a buggy, mind you. Should be even harder to do with less
rolling resistance than on water.
NAPKA US8008
Kites:
Ozone R1 V3 7m
Flysurfer Sonic v3 15m
Flysurfer Speed 3 Deluxe 19m
Peter Lynn Charger 2 12m
Ozone Access Reride 6m
Peter Lynn 2013 Reactor 5.5m
Peter Lynn 2013 Reactor 8.6m
Prism Tensor 5.0m
Ride:
GT-Race Code:R6
Weird Beard VTT Custom
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nate76
Posts: 330
Registered: 9-9-2015
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Mood: Lets roast some coffee
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Hey Joedy, I think you might be right that you're choking the kite a bit. A 19m closed cell in 8-10 kts on something like a Spleene door should be
rideable, if the winds are consistent. I weigh 200 lbs as well, and have an 18m Matrixx3; I consider 8kts to be near the low end for that kite, but
rideable. I can't imagine a 19m Speed having less power.
The key as you've noticed is board speed. You have to be able to give up a little ground to get going, but you'll notice there is a certain speed
that once you get over, the kite starts producing more power. Often this requires acting somewhat counter intuitively by sheeting the bar out rather
than pulling it in. If you have the bar pulled all the way in, you are almost certainly choking the kite and it will actually produce less power.
A typical start for me in low winds will be to do a downloop opposite the direction you plan to start (so if you are going left, make a clockwise
downloop). On a big kite like a 19m, this might mean doing a little over-the-bar steering to get the kite around. As the kite exits the bottom of
the loop, push the bar all the way forward and let it fly as fast as possible through the power zone. You should be up on plane by this point - try
to accelerate with the kite as you push it towards zenith. Keep the bar forward quite a bit as you let the kite fly towards zenith, at the top pull
the bar in and crank hard to redirect the kite for another power stroke - as the kite is flying down, again you'll want to push the bar forward and
let the kite fly as fast as possible. This will also push the kite further towards the wind window and help with going upwind. With any luck and a
little practice, you should have enough speed to start creeping upwind by this point.
Lightwind kiting is a delicate balance - embrace the challenge and I think you'll have fun with it. Common mistakes are pulling the bar in too much
stalling/choking the kite, as well as turning upwind too fast before you have enough speed. It is really easy to do with onshore winds, as you get
physcologically anxious with the approaching shoreline and inadvertently try to push away from it. So the other thing I would recommend is
body-dragging out a little further to give yourself some additional breathing room to help fight the tendency to push upwind too soon.
Hope that might help you a bit, and have fun trying! Don't let the other guys discourage you - for me its better to be in the water trying than to be
sitting on land.
One thing is for sure - lightwind kiting is one of the best and quickest ways to becoming a better kiter and to understand how your kite generates
power. It is not always intuitive and just takes some time and practice to really unlock. Enjoy it, and let us know of your progress!
Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils.
http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Marabou
Skis: Something w/ Marker Baron or Duke Bindings
Boards: Litewave Wing, Naish Jet 2000, OR Mako 140
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joedy
Posts: 326
Registered: 6-28-2010
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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..
Nate,
Thank you for that detailed write up!
I think that you hit the nail on the head for me in this situation: light winds, direct on-shore winds and a walk out distance that didn't allow for
much room to generate the needed speed and (most very likely) choking the kite to stall state.
When I've flown this kite before, it always amazed me when the turbo seemed to kick it (which is just a cool way of referencing apparent wind.) It
never occurred to me to loop opposite on the starts, but it makes perfect sense now that you've mentioned it.
Light wind kiting is as a much an art of finesse as it is a science and I'm determined to master it. My biggest hurdle at the moment is having the
fortitude to shoulder the embarrassment as everyone watches me on the shore!
I did also bring my HQ Matrixx 15 meter with me, but determined that it wouldn't have been enough power in those light winds.
Insofar as the trim strap: what is an ideal setting in light winds? I had mine about 80 powered, which felt good on the bar while I was standing in
the shallow water. In retrospect now, I wonder if I should have trimmed for much less power to help prevent oversheeting once on the board?
Flysurfer Speed3 19m Deluxe
Liquid Force Envy 12m
Flysurfer Pulse2 12m
HQ Matrixx 15m
HQ Hydra 350
_______________
Mako 140
Spleene Door 154
Litewave Spirit 132
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nate76
Posts: 330
Registered: 9-9-2015
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Mood: Lets roast some coffee
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Trust me, I'm no stranger to humiliation and walks of shame. Yes, even a few swims to shore. Fortunately decades of rejection and absence of
self-dignity prepared me for lightwind kiting, lol.
Turbo is a great way of describing it. You can really feel on the foil kites when you cross the threshold and the power comes on. In fact its
amazing how quickly you can go from being underpowered to barely able to hold an edge on something like a Door. I know I still struggle on finding
that balance between going downwind for speed, keeping tension in the lines and starting the cut upwind without killing the speed off. It is indeed a
delicate dance. You just have to remind yourself you're having fun (no really, you are) and embrace the challenge to become better - gawkers be
dam*ed
I think your 19m is the right machine for the job. You're right, you're going to have some amount of trim pulled in for really light winds to keep
the kite moving and keep it from stalling. I would hate to speculate on the exact amount b/c I think its highly kite dependant, but I'd say I start
with about 1/4 pulled and finesse from there depending on conditions. The biggest struggle we have here in CO is that conditions - especially
lightwind conditions - are never consistent and that can add to the frustration.
Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils.
http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Marabou
Skis: Something w/ Marker Baron or Duke Bindings
Boards: Litewave Wing, Naish Jet 2000, OR Mako 140
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
Member Is Offline
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IMO you need the 6m extensions -- those big kites just don't have the time to get up enough speed before you need to turn them on short lines.
Might want to check the mixer too.
And yeah, consistency is important too.
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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joedy
Posts: 326
Registered: 6-28-2010
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
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Thank you for the suggestions Kami and Nate.
Flysurfer Speed3 19m Deluxe
Liquid Force Envy 12m
Flysurfer Pulse2 12m
HQ Matrixx 15m
HQ Hydra 350
_______________
Mako 140
Spleene Door 154
Litewave Spirit 132
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