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kiteboyza


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[*] posted on 5-9-2018 at 07:33 AM
Hot wire


I know a few of you hot wire kite to buggy, its time for my old back to take a rest. Show me your setup please and thanks!
D




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Cerebite




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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 08:02 AM


Since no one else is responding to your request I will throw something up to spark the conversation.

I assume that you are talking a true hotwire [kite attached to the buggy] rather than a Automatic Quick Release [AQR] for releasing kites attached to the rider when the rider is incapacitated. There have been several long threads on here about AQRs in several configurations.

I do not personally hotwire, I stick with AQR/ Deadman releases, but Mark [who I do not believe is on the forum] who is a staunch member of the CO/ UT crowd [and an inveterate tinkerer] on here does.

Mark uses a buggy that started life as a KiteTrike [sp?]. If I remember correctly he does three cables; neck/ side rail junction up between the legs, and mid point of each side rails ["lap belt" location] all meeting at the pull point. At the pull point he attaches his chicken loop for his DPs to his harness and the wiring mechanism so he still has a kite release mechanism if things go pearshaped. He does it also with FB but I am not as certain as to what mechanism he uses, I suspect a homebrew amalgam of an AQR and a chicken loop.

As to back relief I think he uses an folding kayak seat and with that configuration I have seen him go for hours non stop on grass and playa.

Paul, Steve, or Tami can you add any further details of Marks setup?




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kiteboyza


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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 08:10 AM


Thanks buddy, yes hotwire to the buggy. I use a race buggy that has been shrunk down with an awesome seat so comfort is not an issue. I have been kiting with a pulley and a wichard quick release for 20 years so no problem there. Im looking for my pulley/snatchblock and wichard to connect simple to my buggy, maybe some webbing with a stainless D ring on each side or similar



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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 08:18 AM


I made 2 dyneema lines with an eye at each end,put a stainless ring on one end of each.Choke one strap on each side rail at mid point.Use pulley and wichard just like with a harness.The only trouble I ever had ,was when I flipped over,I could hardly get to the QR as I was folded up like a taco!



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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 08:37 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite  
Since no one else is responding to your request I will throw something up to spark the conversation.

I assume that you are talking a true hotwire [kite attached to the buggy] rather than a Automatic Quick Release [AQR] for releasing kites attached to the rider when the rider is incapacitated. There have been several long threads on here about AQRs in several configurations.

I do not personally hotwire, I stick with AQR/ Deadman releases, but Mark [who I do not believe is on the forum] who is a staunch member of the CO/ UT crowd [and an inveterate tinkerer] on here does.

Mark uses a buggy that started life as a KiteTrike [sp?]. If I remember correctly he does three cables; neck/ side rail junction up between the legs, and mid point of each side rails ["lap belt" location] all meeting at the pull point. At the pull point he attaches his chicken loop for his DPs to his harness and the wiring mechanism so he still has a kite release mechanism if things go pearshaped. He does it also with FB but I am not as certain as to what mechanism he uses, I suspect a homebrew amalgam of an AQR and a chicken loop.

As to back relief I think he uses an folding kayak seat and with that configuration I have seen him go for hours non stop on grass and playa.

Paul, Steve, or Tami can you add any further details of Marks setup?


Good that you weighed in here John! I was thinking of Mr. Mugge's setup as well but hadn't gotten to responding (I respond to too many things as it is!). John accurately describes how Mark sets things up. Regretfully, I too am at a loss to explain how he hooks up specifically when he is using a FB kite (like his silly UNIQ). :evil:

One added bit of intel: Mark talks about working out the balance precisely across the three straps that form up his hot wire. He is concerned with fore/aft balance. He has also stated that as an added bonus to his specific setup that becoming overpowered by the kite will result in his front end being pulled upwind.

I've got his email address and if you are interested in reaching out to him please send me a U2U and I'll hook the two of you up. I'm sure Mark would enjoy mansplaining his setup; I just don't feel right putting his email address on such a public forum without his permission.

Welding God raised the point I've most often heard about regarding the limitation of hot wiring, viz., that in the event of a roll over that the pilot is often in a very touchy spot without readily being able to disengage. You are clearly an experienced pilot, but this issue has kept me from hot wiring and going the winchard AQR route. Good luck!




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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 08:10 PM


Hey Detter. I know Aaron A.K.A Meatdriver here on the forums. Runs Hotwired. I know he runs a similar three wire set up as mentioned above. I don't know if he's going to be at SOBB or not but he'd be a good one to talk to.



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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 09:14 PM


I believe Sean here on PKF uses a hot wire and most of the NZ guys use it too. Plummet and Gannet in particular. They can be found on the extreme kites forum. Gannet has a harrowing story to tell which you should read. The thread contains various setups too.

https://www.extremekites.com.au/topic/16263-sea-turtled-safe...
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Chook


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[*] posted on 5-11-2018 at 10:30 PM


I have been using a hot wire for the last 4 years.
I started off with a 3 point hot wire system and found that the front strap took the authority away from the front wheel. So I quickly ditched the front connection point. Its MUCH better with only two.
Even with the kite high overhead in upwind turns it doesn't push against my chest or go close to my face without the front attachment point.
The beauty of this 2 point system is when buggying the kite is pulling on mainly one strap and I'm free to slide forward under them to get more weight onto the front end when turning sharply while sliding at high speed.

I made my hot wire using 1/4" (6.3mm) 316 stainless steel rod I bent into "D"rings and 1" (25mm) 1400Lb (650kg) webbing from a new ratchet strap for lashing down loads. The straps are about 30" (750mm) long after stitching the D rings to the ends. I used 1/4" rod so I could get three original rings into my 70mm Wichard quick release for flying my fixed bridal "Vapor" kites. (when using the original 3 point system)

The 1/4" diameter rings are very hard on the depower bars "Chicken loop" I now fly and I will increase the diameter of my next set using 1/2" thick 2" diameter alloy climbing rings I got off "Fleabay".

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/22KN-Rock-Climbing-Arborist-Rapp...

The straps are fitted directly onto the steel side rails with many double half hitches over themselves and then secured with electrical tape over the whole knot and side rail area to stop the knots slipping forward or loosening/lengthening. I have cut a slot into the side rail padding with a soldering iron to stop the fraying and then refitted it using the attached Velcro.

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Chook


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mad.gif posted on 5-12-2018 at 05:00 AM


They are situated at roughly opposite where my belt buckle would normally sit when seated. It does take some time to get the balance point right so the back breaks away just before the front end. Different kites need a different buggy balance point and so does different surfaces, so it is a tiny bit of a compromise.

I have found out the hard way that Hot Wiring is really hard on flying lines, as there is no give in the system. No harness to act as a shock absorber. Also the weight has increased as it's directly onto the buggy increasing the strain on them. I broke many sets till I worked this out. When a power line lets go, the remaining brake line rips all the tabs out of that side of the Vapor kite. Lots of stitching and time to repair them.

Even with 550 Lb (240kg) lines they were snapping so please be aware of this and buy the best lines you can afford. I now use "Q-Power Pro"lines on all my bars.

I launch from a seated position in the buggy as I carry an injury and have no feeling below the knee on my left leg. So seated while connecting to the hot wire isn't a problem. Buggy facing directly at the kite, I launch holding the kite back on the brakes/steering lines.

"Gannet" Peter uses a really sweet system where he still uses a standard seat harness, standing to launch and when seated in the buggy simply snaps a "Quick release snap hook" (That's attached to the side rails with a stout dyneema line) onto each side of the control bars "Chicken loop" only. Don't clip them to the steel on the harness or the system wont release.

So if it all goes pear shaped he can then dump everything using the original bars safety release mechanism. I'll post a picture of the snap loops he uses.

(This is where my computer deleted my original posts while I was trying to post the pic. Sorry about that.)

Cheers Chook

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kiteboyza


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[*] posted on 5-12-2018 at 07:20 AM


So 3 point vs 2 point? I have seen a nice easy sytem that I like, it will enable me to run handles and bar without to much messing around



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Chook


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[*] posted on 5-12-2018 at 05:31 PM


I contacted "Gannet" and this is the snap hoop Pete uses.

Sinox S2432 10mm 316 Double Lock Spring Hook
Size 19mm
Length 109mm
Breaking load 1,550 Kgs
p_170224_01514.jpg - 18kB

I wouldn't think it needs the double lock. Just when the hook gets to that size, it is a feature.

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Chook


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[*] posted on 7-2-2018 at 06:07 PM


Did you give it a go "Kiteboyza"?
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[*] posted on 7-3-2018 at 06:47 AM


Lordy mama,
I certainly wouldn't want my kite to be attached to the buggy.
I can understand the reason behind wanting to do that but I know that when you are at full tilt and something goes wrong you haven't got a lot of time to deploy the safety.
In the time it takes to deploy, you are a fair way up in the sky so that being the case your buggy is up there too.
Anyone remember Craig Sparks and his broken back??
He is a super skilled freestyler and used a lap belt for staying in his buggy.
Imagine the carnage if something went wrong in the hot wire system.
Just my thoughts but feel free to try and change my mind.

All the best
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[*] posted on 7-3-2018 at 12:15 PM


A lot of guys swear by the hot wire system. Plummet gets on famously with it as do others. As far as I can make out, its a good setup for endurance riding.
I tried it a number of times because it seemed cool but I just couldn't live with it. The biggest issue was the thought of launching in high dangerous winds, even with a kite designed for extreme wind it would still pull the bug when flagged out before I had a chance to climb in. And then there was the issue of closing the spreader bar under such tension. No no no. There is enough to worry about in such conditions without resorting to hot wire.
And I prefer to feel those kite forces on my body rather than the disconnect you get with such a system. Besides, I need to use the kite to pull me out of the narrow seat when I'm done riding. :D
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[*] posted on 7-3-2018 at 03:53 PM


Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
I believe Sean here on PKF uses a hot wire and most of the NZ guys use it too. Plummet and Gannet in particular. They can be found on the extreme kites forum. Gannet has a harrowing story to tell which you should read. The thread contains various setups too.

https://www.extremekites.com.au/topic/16263-sea-turtled-safe...


That's a great link for information on various hot wire set ups. I used an old fall arrest harness that is more than strong enough to handle the task. One attached to each side rail. I like the fall arrest hardware and rings. Plenty big to eliminate anything getting hung up. I ran the chicken loop through the rings so when I hit the safety, the kite releases from the buggy and also releases me from both.

Seated launching kind of sucks sometimes though.
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[*] posted on 7-3-2018 at 05:02 PM


Dieter Borrowed a velcro strap affair from Jon Ellis and hotwired with it for a while at SOBB.
He lived to tell the tale, but I should let him tell it.
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