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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 09:21 AM
Bridle Management


Along the lines of Eric's "Line Management" thread I thought I'd toss in here a "Bridle Management" thread. Related but different.

I've been struggling for some time with bridle management, made worse by my selection of SS kites that require extraordinary amounts of bridling for the kite to form its wing shape in the air sans the second skin for structure. Bridle tangling for me has been exacerbated by flying on the Ivanpah playa where you need to wrap these SS beauties around padded polls pounded into the ground. The patchwork and flaky nature of the playa surface adds to the fun, grabbing and holding onto bridling like mad.

Two years ago at IBX 2016 John (Cerebite) most kindly showed me how to daisy chain bridles to improve their management. I know this comes as a shock, but I'm sort of stubborn and I never started doing this. I finally bit the bullet, and with great deference to Cerebite packed away the first two of my LS2s after rinsing off the playa dust with some dandy daisy chaining of the bridling.

I found this short informative video on YouTube that goes through the basics. It is remarkably easy finger-motor wise and now that I'm a new convert I think this is the greatest thing going. :D




https://youtu.be/z2QGRxcD1xY


What strategies have others employed to keep their bridles purdy and neat?




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

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eric67m


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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 11:22 AM


This video is great for your "new crinkly kite ASMR porn". Good audio track of that new kite sound...

Some good concepts in this video. I have done this on my early fixed bridals when I first started. I may need to give it another try.




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 11:31 AM


For my Edo's, large inflatables, and other single lines it's the cat's meow.
Occasionally I'll miss a loop which requires a feed through of the leader, darn.
I haven't needed to do this with my power kites.
Anyway never drop the leader into the kite without securing the end or it will ferret around and find its way between the other bridle legs.

Above all, always remember to take special care with any kite you think I might someday own:D




Rage 1.8. Born Stars 2.5,4,5.5,10,12.5. DFO 7m. Peak2 6,9. Peak3 4,12. Charger 10. Charger2 8,12. PL Rally bug.
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 11:52 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline  


Above all, always remember to take special care with any kite you think I might someday own:D



:moon:




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

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Cerebite




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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 12:47 PM



"What strategies have others employed to keep their bridles purdy and neat?"

:D Teach the Kite Squire how to daisy chain so I can get back to flying :lol:

And as Ed mentioned make sure to secure the pigtails after chaining so they don't "wander." If the kite does not contain dedicated retainers [as I have seen the Born's do] I put a quick in line hitch into [usually] the innermost and bottom bridle on that side.




NASA wings -1 to 12m [mostly KM4]
Foils -2 -12m [mostly PL & Pansh]
VTT Stinger on Midi's
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Cochise Kiter




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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 02:13 PM


Hi all, question about that process: must the flying lines be disconnected while doing that?

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Randy


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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 02:29 PM


Good video. I'll have to try that. My main strategy has been to put some anchor loops into my kites to tie the leaders into one place before storing. Usually works ok, though for reasons unknown - not always. Likely has to do with being sloppy.



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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 02:33 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Cochise Kiter  
Hi all, question about that process: must the flying lines be disconnected while doing that?



Absolutely not! Assuming you are using a DP kite here (but the same goes of course for FB) gather the brake and power lines together from one side in one of your hands keeping them even in length. With your other hand grab around the gathered DP pulley lines and draw that hand down towards the kite keeping your fist closed but loose around the bridling. For what it's worth I found it convenient to sling the gathered bridle "rope" over my shoulder as I gathered the bridling towards the kite. I kept this process going until I ran out of bridling. At that point I just slung a non-knotted loop with the bridle "rope" and started my daisy chain loops working back up towards the DP pulleys. I finished looping when I reached the pulleys. If my bridles had been connected to kite lines (they weren't today) I would probably just lay the daisy chains neatly down on the kite and place the bar with wound lines in the center of the trailing edge. I know I'm "mansplaining" but I would have completed the other side before completing the winding of lines on the bar and placing the bar at the bottom and then fold up the kite wrapping the bar at the end of the folding to make one nice cylindrical burrito with the bar just inside the burrito and all stray lines tucked away. Into a storage bag and presto!

What I'm curious about trying is whether I can place the kite on a padded pole and launch the kite with the daisy chains still looped! I'm going to need to get confident in my process and then try it with my smallest kite in light winds just to see if the bridles will just shake out on their own. That would be awesome! Has anybody had success trying that feat?




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

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Cochise Kiter




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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 03:06 PM


Thanks Windstruck! That does help me understand the process a bit better. I'll have to give that a try my next time out. Thanks again :thumbup:

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jeffnyc




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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 05:02 PM


Thanks for that vid, Windstruck. I recently got a kite that had the bridals daisy chained - I just thought the dude had way too much time on his hands or something. Of course I untied the first link incorrectly, and took it apart link by link rather than being able to just pull.

So far I've gotten along just larks heading my bridals if I need to take the lines off. I do a bridal precheck even if the lines are attached anyway.

If you do the braided bridal launch, make a video, that would be fun to see! :D




DP: Speed3 15 + 21 | Phantom I 12m | Eskimo III 14.5 | NRG 12m, WOW 9m
FB: Flux 5m | Bullet 4.5 + 2.5 | Blurr 3.5 + 2.5 | Rage 2.5 | Beamer 1.8 | Sensei III 3m
Ride: Flex Haize | MBS core 90 | Manta 144 | Mako | WB 5'6"
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Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 4-20-2018 at 03:33 AM


Mr Steve,

Definitely try it with the 3.5 LS, I have one of those already. Did you see Randy put his kite away directly int the truck using the "wind method, slick?

Steve. With the NASA Star kites I share bars, so I land and set up with the kite nose down and the bar on the ground red on the right. If the wind is reasonable I hook the safety line around the bug axle and back onto itself below the bar, if the wind is high I hook on above the stopping bead to keep it glued down.
So Kite glued down, face down as I approach from outside the lineset.
Step inside the line set and pull the top center of the kite along the ground until it's even with the little line boots and put your knee on it. Now you can dis and connect the bridles to the kite.

Now, kite on the ground with a knee on it. Grab the red and blue pigtails and pull them toward you until the lower bridles are pulled well over the kite.
Fold left and right to cover the bridles, the fold up from the bottom and down from the top. Then roll the kite, you're done, now roll yoursel a....never mind.

When launching. After you hook up and still have a knee on the kite, kneeling inside the lineset, grab a left or right hand full of kite. Step out side the line set and walk around beside to behind your kite, only then turn it loose.
This prevents the wild man dance that I do when the kite launches, dives at me, tangles me with bridle, and turns the bug upwind at the same moment. darn.

The beauty of this quicky is that I can do it in any wind so far and most of the rolling and folding happens in my lap, out of the gravel or wet dirt, which is mud, which is how clear I've made this.....

Pulling the stowed pigtails forward to draw all the line up from the bottom stops those stray lines from peeking out after I fold.

:eureka:




Rage 1.8. Born Stars 2.5,4,5.5,10,12.5. DFO 7m. Peak2 6,9. Peak3 4,12. Charger 10. Charger2 8,12. PL Rally bug.
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[*] posted on 4-20-2018 at 08:41 AM


Thanks for the tip and video link. I'm going to try this with the Peak 3 9m. Love the kite, but, the bridles are a little overwhelming. Admittedly, I haven't had any problems with them. But, when the kite is on ground the bridles look like a mess waiting to tangle.
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 4-20-2018 at 11:18 AM


Quote: Originally posted by leanin  
Thanks for the tip and video link. I'm going to try this with the Peak 3 9m. Love the kite, but, the bridles are a little overwhelming. Admittedly, I haven't had any problems with them. But, when the kite is on ground the bridles look like a mess waiting to tangle.


Glad this was helpful. SS bridling was born for daisy chaining IMHO. Silly it took me so long to get here, despite best efforts by my good friend Cerebite.




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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Windstruck


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Posts: 2946
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Location: Park City, UT, USA
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Mood: Excited for my incoming 3.5m LS3!

[*] posted on 4-20-2018 at 11:45 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Ed Cline  
Mr Steve,

Definitely try it with the 3.5 LS, I have one of those already. Did you see Randy put his kite away directly int the truck using the "wind method, slick?

Steve. With the NASA Star kites I share bars, so I land and set up with the kite nose down and the bar on the ground red on the right. If the wind is reasonable I hook the safety line around the bug axle and back onto itself below the bar, if the wind is high I hook on above the stopping bead to keep it glued down.
So Kite glued down, face down as I approach from outside the lineset.
Step inside the line set and pull the top center of the kite along the ground until it's even with the little line boots and put your knee on it. Now you can dis and connect the bridles to the kite.

Now, kite on the ground with a knee on it. Grab the red and blue pigtails and pull them toward you until the lower bridles are pulled well over the kite.
Fold left and right to cover the bridles, the fold up from the bottom and down from the top. Then roll the kite, you're done, now roll yoursel a....never mind.

When launching. After you hook up and still have a knee on the kite, kneeling inside the lineset, grab a left or right hand full of kite. Step out side the line set and walk around beside to behind your kite, only then turn it loose.
This prevents the wild man dance that I do when the kite launches, dives at me, tangles me with bridle, and turns the bug upwind at the same moment. darn.

The beauty of this quicky is that I can do it in any wind so far and most of the rolling and folding happens in my lap, out of the gravel or wet dirt, which is mud, which is how clear I've made this.....

Pulling the stowed pigtails forward to draw all the line up from the bottom stops those stray lines from peeking out after I fold.

:eureka:


Sally - this sounds like a great system. I just tried unsuccessfully to find an old video Steffen Born sent me about three years ago that shows him folding his NASA Stars. I've used the method and really liked it. In short you attach the bridle pig tails with larks head knots to the loops at the nose of the kite, then with your back to the wind hold the kite in front of you nose up with your arms outstretched to your sides holding the kite on its edges part way down the sides of the triangle if you will. The bridling and trailing bottom corners of the kite will be playing out downwind of you. Next in a rapid motion bring your hands together while simultaneously going to one knee, swooping the kite to the ground partially folded with the bridling captured inside the outer corners of the kite. The kite will look like a big fat blunt pencil on the ground in front of you. It is then simply a matter of completing the folding up as the bridling is all tucked up inside. With a little practice this move works really, really well. Higher wind actually makes this easier up to a point.




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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jeepersjoey


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[*] posted on 4-21-2018 at 11:41 AM


What I learned is that I tended to mess it up.

When the daisy chain is messed up, it means that every single link is backward and required 10x the time.

After two mess-ups...I stopped doing it.

But...we all know I do everything backwards and different than EVERYONE else!
Paul




Current Kites (cuz the wife wanted to know):
Peter Lynn - Vapor - Orange 2.3, 3.2, 4.5, 5.4
Peter Lynn - Viper - 2.6
Flexifoil - Rage - Rasta 1.8, 2.5, 3.5, 4.7 (v2)
Flexifoil - Rage - Pink (custom) 2.5, 3.5
Flexifoil - Sting - 3.3
Ozone - Method - 6.5
Libre - Bora - Yellow 3.0, 4.5

Kites bought when drunk:
Peter Lynn - C-Quad - 6.3
HQ - NPW9 - 3.4, 5.3
HQ - NPW5 - 1.0
NewTech - Ballistic - 2.2
Rhombus - Firebee 3.0

Buggies (Kite and Land)
#1: Libre Full-Race (powdercoated blue)
#2: Peter Lynn COMP+ with VTT rails - (powdercoated black)
#3: Combat homemade Land Sailer
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 4-21-2018 at 07:10 PM


Quote: Originally posted by jeepersjoey  
What I learned is that I tended to mess it up.

When the daisy chain is messed up, it means that every single link is backward and required 10x the time.

After two mess-ups...I stopped doing it.

But...we all know I do everything backwards and different than EVERYONE else!
Paul


LOL. I did the same thing using this method on extension cords. I did it wrong a couple times and abandoned the method. I'm sure I would get it right eventually I guess.
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[*] posted on 4-21-2018 at 08:35 PM


Quote: Originally posted by jeepersjoey  
What I learned is that I tended to mess it up.

When the daisy chain is messed up, it means that every single link is backward and required 10x the time.


It is possible to correct a daisy chain if it's not undoing correctly. I'll see if I can find a video showing what to do or make one myself. once you have that correction it's a quick pull on a loop about to tighten and pulling the line through a differnt direction and the whole chain unravels correctly - no having to undo it one by one. I think someone posted a video on one of the kite making forums in the last few years, I'll look




Mark Groshens NAPKA KC 13
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn: Ch2 22 +18 + 15 + 6.5, Scorp 16 + 10, Phantom II 12 + 9, Orig Phantom 9 + 6, Syn 8, Charger I 6, F 1200, 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17 + 12, Rise 13 + 10 + 7, Razor 9 + 6
Foils: PL Leopards and Lynx, Airea Raptors, some PL Reactor IIs + IIIs, Libre Spirits, Cross Kite Sonics, Ozone Flow
Peter Lynn Kite Cat for cruising the lakes
buggies: PL XR+, Cameleon Pagona, custom bigfoot, PL Bigfoot, custom ice buggy
Boards: 2 custom directionals, O.R Surf series 6-3 and 5-11, Mako Duke, Mako Skinny, Mako 140 Wide, Mako 150 Wide, Mako King, Brunotti
lots of old school skis, snowboard
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Ed Cline


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[*] posted on 4-21-2018 at 09:49 PM


Hello, My name is ed and I screw up daisy chains, Hello ed."




Rage 1.8. Born Stars 2.5,4,5.5,10,12.5. DFO 7m. Peak2 6,9. Peak3 4,12. Charger 10. Charger2 8,12. PL Rally bug.
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 4-22-2018 at 06:49 AM


Quote: Originally posted by markite  
Quote: Originally posted by jeepersjoey  
What I learned is that I tended to mess it up.

When the daisy chain is messed up, it means that every single link is backward and required 10x the time.


It is possible to correct a daisy chain if it's not undoing correctly. I'll see if I can find a video showing what to do or make one myself. once you have that correction it's a quick pull on a loop about to tighten and pulling the line through a differnt direction and the whole chain unravels correctly - no having to undo it one by one. I think someone posted a video on one of the kite making forums in the last few years, I'll look


Mark, as good luck would have it, you won't have to look far. Look at the video at the top of this thread and advance the video to about the 2:15 mark. You're welcome. :frog:




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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markite


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[*] posted on 4-22-2018 at 08:21 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
Mark, as good luck would have it, you won't have to look far. Look at the video at the top of this thread and advance the video to about the 2:15 mark. You're welcome. :frog:


hey there you go. I was thinking it was easy but how can I explain it without doing a drawing or video - that was a lot easier, thanks!




Mark Groshens NAPKA KC 13
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn: Ch2 22 +18 + 15 + 6.5, Scorp 16 + 10, Phantom II 12 + 9, Orig Phantom 9 + 6, Syn 8, Charger I 6, F 1200, 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17 + 12, Rise 13 + 10 + 7, Razor 9 + 6
Foils: PL Leopards and Lynx, Airea Raptors, some PL Reactor IIs + IIIs, Libre Spirits, Cross Kite Sonics, Ozone Flow
Peter Lynn Kite Cat for cruising the lakes
buggies: PL XR+, Cameleon Pagona, custom bigfoot, PL Bigfoot, custom ice buggy
Boards: 2 custom directionals, O.R Surf series 6-3 and 5-11, Mako Duke, Mako Skinny, Mako 140 Wide, Mako 150 Wide, Mako King, Brunotti
lots of old school skis, snowboard
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Windstruck


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Mood: Excited for my incoming 3.5m LS3!

[*] posted on 4-24-2018 at 10:32 AM


My 9.5m LS2 doesn't fly evenly and I'm forced to hold the bar on the top when flying to the right in my buggy to keep it from diving into the ground. I don't have any specific memory of hooking the kite on something but I easily could have done it somewhere down the line.

I reached out to Steffen Born about it and he kindly sent me the video I posted at the bottom of this post. This sort of bridle length test is darn simple to perform and I did it this morning. Sure enough I found about a half dozen lines on one side that were between 1-5 cm longer than their matching bridle lines on the other side.

What I'm going to do about it is a whole other story. Knowing what I would have to do and daring to attempt it could well turn out to be two separate things for me!

I know folks that actually build kites will chuckle at me, but I've got a phone call into the fine folks at www.fixmykite.com with whom I've had good dealings with over the years sewing kites for me. What they quote me may steer me one way or the other, time will tell!

Have folks out there had good success balancing stretched out bridles (adjusting knots, etc.)?




https://youtu.be/L6G0KbNCxvI




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)*
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

*By IBX 2019

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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