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Author: Subject: I want even more depower. Kind of thinking Peak
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Registered: 4-21-2012
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[*] posted on 1-16-2018 at 01:14 PM
I want even more depower. Kind of thinking Peak


I was reading the review of the original Peak on http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/kite-and-gear-reviews/long-ter...

and was thinking that a Peak might really be what I could use here. I'm quite well described as the "perpetual intermediate" in the article.

My problem is the hilly inland wind. In Saskatchewan you have to be able to fly the wind you are handed, or you aren't riding. And it's never consistent in any way. It's often only 10 minutes, a good gust, or riding to the next hill over between "Bar out, I just want it to fly" and "Bar out, I don't want to die".

As a result I always choose on the safe side on the kite I put up, which usually gets me a session that looks like 10% standing around, 30% underpowered, 50% powered up and having fun, and 10% overpowered.

The worst situation that I have is climbing into ridge lift where I'm struggling to climb a hill, badly underpowered, then upon reaching the top I'm launched over the other side. If I choose a smaller kite, I'm limited because I can't climb the hills. If I put up a bigger kite, the wind on hilltops and plateaus can get dangerous. This is specifically mentioned in the review as something the Peak can avoid.

Add safer hot launches and flag safety, ghost launch/land capability, floaty feel, crashable into stubble and ice... the fact that I already like single skins... maybe a Peak is a good choice for me? I know the Apex have about as much depower range as you can get, but can I get even more out of a Peak?

Edit: and which model Peak is the best for these conditions? Snowkite mostly and maybe buggy someday.




Homebuilt: 1m NPW9b, 2.6m NPW21, 7m NPW21 UDS
HQ: 3.2m Crossfire, 5m + 7m Apex 3
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 1-16-2018 at 04:06 PM


I've read Chris' Hardwater Peak reviews too and feel he represents them well. From your description it sounds as if you are a solid (if reluctant) member of the Janky Wind Club for which Spenser is the self-appointed President. Janky winds are where Peaks really shine. They take off easily in little wind, can often stay aloft in the lulls, and can dump a lot of power when the gusts or ridge winds come on.

As for models I would try and get hold of Peak-2s as compared to P1s or P3s (with one exception listed below). My reason for putting in a word for the P2s is that the kites themselves are decently refined, they have two DP pulleys per side of their bridling, and they have a clam cleat sheeting line at the bar. While I've never done it, I could imagine looping the kite as it pulls me uphill on skis, and as I approached the top and felt the ridge wind build pull in the clam cleat line and letting out the bar as I crest the hill. Combining clam cleat line shortening and letting out the bar dumps a HUGE amount of power in a P2! Once you are back off the ridge you could lengthen out the clam cleat line, pull in the bar, and power back up.

The P1 bar didn't have a clam cleat adjuster. The P3s, while the kites themselves are nicely refined, have one DP pulley per bridle side resulting in a lot more bar pressure than the same sized P2 in the same wind conditions. I personally would want to avoid a lot of bar pressure when snowkiting because that will likely make your hands get cold really fast.

As for size (or sizes), if you can swing it I would say that a great P2 quiver is the 6m/12m combo. That gives you a vast range of wind conditions that you can fly in. When I owned a full P2 quiver I used the 6m and 12m by far the most, rarely used the 9m, and only got to use the 4m on rare, blasting days. If you could only swing one single P2 then I think based on your description that I would go with the 6m. If the winds are moderate and you ridge line with the 12m in the air then I think things could get a little, err, "busy".

What I've read recently is that the 6m P1 flown on a more modern bar with a clam cleat adjuster is a superb option as well.

Good luck!

My two cents as a former P2 quiver owner and SS disciple.




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

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IFlyKites


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[*] posted on 1-16-2018 at 09:46 PM


The peak is honestly the most versatile depower I've personally flown hands down. And no, I am not being biased in any way. :bouncing:

If you are only going to get one kite for landkiting or snowkiting, the 9m or the 6m (depending on how much you weigh, terrain you kite on, and conditions you fly in) is the ultimate kite to get. I'm currently rocking a 9m Peak 2 (1 kite quiver) and the Peak does it all for me! The most I'd be comfortable on a 9m would be about 16 knots or so. After, it does get a bit too much to hold down imho. I've flown it in as little as 3-4 knots, which was enough to get me moving on a grass field.

I can't speak for Peak 1 or 3's, but Peak 2's definitely do not disappoint.

Anyhow, good luck with your decision!
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[*] posted on 1-17-2018 at 06:02 AM


Get one. You won't regret it. Chris called it the Jeep of the kite world in some previous thread. That describes it well imo. I come from a nasa, fixed bridle, arc back ground and always fly inland. Peak wins out in that environment.

Short line / no line and longboard, nasa is the goto.
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rectifier




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[*] posted on 1-17-2018 at 10:56 AM


Thanks guys! I'm thinking the 6m at least for a first Peak to try out, I know I'll use that size. My 5m Apex 3 is the one I fly the most, and the Peaks are supposed to pull harder than their equivalent foil size, right?

I weigh 150lbs. 16 knots (30kph) is a fairly ordinary base level wind here, but it's often gusting +50% or more, and significantly higher on hilltops or higher in the window. Since I want to hold it down in the gusts, the 6m sounds like a better choice.

When the wind drops below 20kph it tends to drop to zero, so larger kites aren't much use here. When I bought the Apex quiver I had an option to buy the 10m but I passed on it - it was a good choice as I would only have got to use it once or twice a year. I'm not sure if a 12m would get much air time around here!

Important question about the bar: how much bar travel? I have fairly short arms. On my Apexes I can't even reach the trim straps unless I park the kite and kind of jump for it, and I often have to one-hand the bar if I want to go full depower while I'm riding. With all that depower, do the Peaks have a really long bar travel as well?




Homebuilt: 1m NPW9b, 2.6m NPW21, 7m NPW21 UDS
HQ: 3.2m Crossfire, 5m + 7m Apex 3
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 1-17-2018 at 01:32 PM


Based on your description of the local conditions I would agree that the single 6m Peak would be a good call. IMHO, a P2 with a bar that allows for the clam cleat adjustment. It is going to be catch as catch can of course on the used market but I'm wondering if perhaps you could get away with a kite-only option The Peaks are balanced in their bridling such that they fly with all four lines being of similar length, I suspect like most DP kites out there, meaning their is nothing particular or special about matching the kite with the EOM bar FS sold with it. I suspect your Apex lineset would work just fine.

You mentioned arm length and the need to stop to adjust the trim strap. That would pretty much defeat the purpose of real time adjustment like I was suggesting above as you crest a ridge or a rogue gust comes along. I'm 6 feet tall with knuckle dragging arms so this issue hasn't limited me personally and thus don't want to comment on throw distance of a FS bar as I never really thought about it. I'm sure there are other folks on PKF of your stature that can comment on this directly. I know of the issue as I was fortunate enough to buy a great 15m Ozone Summit once for a spectacular young and very fast woman on this forum who had this exact issue with that kite. Maybe if you can arrive at a bar and 4.5 line set combo that you are comfortable with and mate it to a KO 6m P1 or P2 then you'd really be in business. Stuff dreams are made of.... I know. Good luck!




Kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite LongStar-3 (3.5m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (1.5m, 3.2m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); BigKid's AQR

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rectifier




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[*] posted on 1-17-2018 at 02:36 PM


Yeah, with the Apex lineset and bar I'd still have the same issue with the trim strap. Also, the Apex 3 bar has the old top hat safety that releases the power lines, and the Peaks are 4.5 line or reef line. And the top hat is hard to reach and a pain to reassemble if I do pull it... so I'll be looking for a RTF setup I think, because I would like a more modern bar anyways.

The clam cleat looks like you can operate it from anywhere as long as you can reach the end of the line, so that would be easy to extend if I can't reach it. The FS site for the Infinity 3.0 CC bar, which I think is the one we are talking about, claims "With the new Clam-Cleat adjuster the depower throw can also be adapted to your arm length." Sounds promising!

Hoping someone else who is short chimes in here, or maybe Feyd as Hardwater Kiting has likely taught a lot of people to fly the Peak, of all different sizes... After a bit of research I see that other people taller than myself have complained about reaching the trim straps/bar throw on the Apex, but nobody seems to mention this issue with the Peak. I'm not even that short, I'm 5'7"... on the smaller side but there are a lot of smaller people out there.




Homebuilt: 1m NPW9b, 2.6m NPW21, 7m NPW21 UDS
HQ: 3.2m Crossfire, 5m + 7m Apex 3
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[*] posted on 1-17-2018 at 03:39 PM


Quote: Originally posted by rectifier  
Yeah, with the Apex lineset and bar I'd still have the same issue with the trim strap. Also, the Apex 3 bar has the old top hat safety that releases the power lines, and the Peaks are 4.5 line or reef line. And the top hat is hard to reach and a pain to reassemble if I do pull it... so I'll be looking for a RTF setup I think, because I would like a more modern bar anyways.

The clam cleat looks like you can operate it from anywhere as long as you can reach the end of the line, so that would be easy to extend if I can't reach it. The FS site for the Infinity 3.0 CC bar, which I think is the one we are talking about, claims "With the new Clam-Cleat adjuster the depower throw can also be adapted to your arm length." Sounds promising!

Hoping someone else who is short chimes in here, or maybe Feyd as Hardwater Kiting has likely taught a lot of people to fly the Peak, of all different sizes... After a bit of research I see that other people taller than myself have complained about reaching the trim straps/bar throw on the Apex, but nobody seems to mention this issue with the Peak. I'm not even that short, I'm 5'7"... on the smaller side but there are a lot of smaller people out there.


The bar reach on the Apex series has long been a problem. The new ONE bar resolves this but it was a long time coming.

You won't have the same issue on any version of the Peak series.

Be mindful of making comparisons between the Apex and the Peaks. VERY, VERY different animals. The Apex at one time was a great option for the conditions you describe but it has been surpassed by a wide margin by kites like the Flysurfer Peak or Ozone Access in aspects such and depower, wind range and gust handling. One thing worth pointing out is that is situations where the gust factor is high AND the frequency is as well, there will be some need to manually manage this on the Peak. As in actively dump some of the power via sheeting action. Not really an issue for most people in that this means you have to actually pilot the kite. :-) Not just hang there and let it do the work.

It's not an Arc. ;-)

But compared to your Apexs, even if you did just ride sheeted in at full power the whole time, the gust handling is very good and I would argue better than your current kites.

The PEak will be a much different kite and there will be some learning curve but it is supremely suited to working in the conditions you are in. Especially where you are cresting and dealing with compression at the ridge.





Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, HQ and Flysurfer kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 518-407-KITE
www.eastsidebikeguides.com
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Memopad


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[*] posted on 1-17-2018 at 08:08 PM


I haven't flown any SS kites yet, but after flying some LEI's last week I'm surprised they don't get more love around here. I was on some older Slingshot kite and was absolutely blown away by the amount of depower in the bar alone. I can only imagine the newer ones are that much better. I'm tempted to pick up a couple for my gf to learn to fly on. I've been teaching her on Access V6's but the bar throw is even a little long on those kites for her, and the depower doesn't compare as far as I can tell in my limited LEI flight time.

Speaking of bar throw... Chris, how do you teach beginners to overcome the tendency to hang on the bar and power a kite all the way up all the time :D She does fine until something unexpected happens or she puts the kite in a bad spot, and then makes it much worse by panicking and yanking on the bar lol. I think a big part of it is not feeling in control with the bar out because it's so far out on her reach.




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