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Author: Subject: Quad handles versus bar
Jim S




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[*] posted on 11-24-2017 at 05:21 PM
Quad handles versus bar


I am new to riding a kite buggy on the beach. I have been using a 4m Ozone with a fixed bar 4-line set, but my neighbor sold me a 5M Beamer with quad handles. Dont like the quad handles as much as i like my fixed bar, can i switch out the quad handles with my fixed bar 4 line set???
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 11-24-2017 at 06:15 PM


Yes you can but ....
As kites get bigger they get harder / slower to control. Flying on handles allows you to " brake turn " . Adding brake input to just one side will speed the turns up greatly.

Once you really get on top of them the fine tuned control you can get off of handles is totally worth the learning curve. Flying FB off a bar will eventually stunt your progression. Nothing is sweeter than cruising with the kite set and keeping control with nothing more than brake tweeks!

Trust me on this one. I ignored this advice and waisted lots of good fly time + money on crossover bars etc.. Only to discover one day I could keep my kite flying in terrible wind with handles when I was skunked with my beloved bar.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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bigkid


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[*] posted on 11-24-2017 at 09:49 PM


I have to Agee with BR, as for the Beamer on a bar,:thumbdown:



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Blokarts Pro-Comp.
PKD Century Soulflys (complete quiver), PKD Buster Soulfly's (complete quiver), PKD Buster Soulfly Pro's (complete quiver), NPW's-2m, 3m, 5m, 7m, 9m, 11m, 15m. Nasa Star-(complete quiver), Libre Vampir III-Spirits, Zebras, PL Hornets-twisters-Beamers,
Line sets from 10" to 328" or 2m to 100m.
worlds only AQR that works. American distributor for PKD.
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 06:40 AM


welcome around
best thing to do is get some handles for the ozone
u will become a better pilot and get better preformance from the kite
heres my mandatory..."buy a 3m"...everyone needs a 3m




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Lobster Foil/ 3.5m Bullet/ 4m Buster/ 4m RMSD 2 line Special/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ MBS Core 8&16/ Flexboard Haise/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 09:01 AM


Ahh... the perennial questions. Funny how so many of us go through similar progressions. Good to listen to Bladerunner; he knows of what he speaks. I too attempted various forms of bars with my early FB kites, all with disappointing results. For most FB kites (though I'm sure far from all), putting them on a bar dumbs them down, something very noticeable when moving in a buggy. While I've never specifically flown a Beamer, it is an entry level workhorse with a low AR. At 5m it will likely seem to have received a frontal lobotomy on a bar in a buggy.

One exception I have found for buggying with a FB kite from a bar are the Born-Kite NASA Stars. A number of us on PKF have had very pleasant buggy experiences with NSs flown from a bar. My experience is with the 3rd generation of these beauties, the so-called NS3s. These come stock strung for three line flying; two power lines and a central third line for scrunching the nose to decrease flying efficiency (and therefore scrubbing some power) while also acting as a flag out safety line. As you can see from my auto signature I've got four small NS3s ranging from 1.5m to 4.0m. I've got them strung with so-called Z-bridles which allows me to fly them either from a 3-line bar or with quad handles and four lines. I've buggied with them in both configurations and like both setups.

In short, I'd say you could blend bar and handle flying with NASAs, but I'd also recommending staying with handles for traditional FB foils. If you eventually decide to go into DP kites then you will again have a bar. Going this way will further necessitate acquiring a harness. This is a wholly different discussion so I won't go farther here.

Bottom line, welcome to PKF. We look forward to hearing about your exploits. Where are you located? Asking because there are some annual kiting events that depending on where you live could be really good to attend and meet some of us in person. You will learn more at these larger events in a few days then fiddling around yourself for months.




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT00003
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Jason-G




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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 09:26 AM


I like my Rage 2.5 on a bar I modified. When in really strong winds I can loop the kite for lots of power and then just spin the bar without having to loop the kite the other way to untwist the lines. This is when hooked in and riding a buggy.

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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 09:50 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Jason-G  
I like my Rage 2.5 on a bar I modified. When in really strong winds I can loop the kite for lots of power and then just spin the bar without having to loop the kite the other way to untwist the lines. This is when hooked in and riding a buggy.



Good stuff Jason! Could you please share a photo of your bar? Do you run your power lines to the center like a DP setup or out on the ends like a traditional FB 2-line bar?I'm interested in seeing how you worked this to understand how you can spin the bar out of the line twists.




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT00003
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Jason-G




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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 10:48 AM
spinning bar




IMG_9146.JPG - 123kBIMG_9145.JPG - 129kB
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Jason-G




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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 10:49 AM
spinning bar - see photos in other post


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Jason-G




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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 10:58 AM


The power lines are on the ends of the bar like a normal fixed birdle. The brake lines go through the bar and the leash connection point velcrows to the chicken loop. The little black ball up the line is the perfect spot to kill the kite or for staking so the kite doesn't flop around in high wind. I really like this setup with the 2.5, simple and effective.

Jason
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 11-25-2017 at 01:18 PM


What is happening is that small kites turn and fly fast. You can spank them around creating power and getting out of trouble by looping or racing to the windows edge. This changes rapidly as you go up in size.

Sounds like you have progressed to the point you are rocking the bar and really enjoying it. From this point forward your progression will be stunted by sticking with a bar. This should become pretty noticeable with the 5m and more so as you go up it size. It was with my 5m Ace that I came to see that my beloved bar was holding me back. It was dumbing down my kite so much I could not fly it in a park with terrible winds. Simply switching to handles was a day/ life changing moment. At this point I was trying to fly my 9m Blade on the bar and wasting time.

There are more ways to make power than simply looping in the window. ( although that is a great method with small kites ) . Adding even brake pressure with the kite set at the windows edge and cruising sets the kite back in the window and is how true depower works. Generally slowing the kite on demand is super valuable. Throw in the fact that by adding brake control many FB kites can turn on a wing tip and you are progressing again!

Being able to flip a loop out of your lines with a bar is nice but you can fly with many twists and waiting to loop the other way isn't that big a deal.

I loved bars from day 1. That is why I still fly them as my 1st choice. For me, depower is the way to go. That said, When I gave over to handles and learned how to use them effectively it did amazing things to my progression. Especially when I started to think about front line / back line control and how it translates to depower. It not only boosted my FB control / experience it made me better understand how my bar / trim strap effect my depower control. Depower was a huge advantage riding stand up. Less so in the buggy but I still prefer it. Ozone seems to agree. Dropping their FB line.

I think you are at a crossroad. If you truly prefer the bar I suggest you consider going depower if you go bigger in kites. Fly the kites you have hooked in and really think about what is happening as you add front line and back line control. It is all about having fun. Rip it up on the bar but don't get plateaued with it! Master handles and you will be a much better depower pilot.

There is a reason that you see ONLY pilots flying FB on handles or depower on a bar at above a novice level.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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