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Author: Subject: Still searching for a good light wind kite
rtz


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Location: Edmond, OK
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[*] posted on 9-10-2017 at 02:39 PM
Still searching for a good light wind kite


My older vintage model 9m JOJO; I get it out for fun, and for show, and to change things up. I really like throwing that thing around. I can Buggy with it in Wind between 5mph and 10mph. No more, no less. Too much power for me over 10 and under 5 I can static fly it; but it just doesnt have enough to go up Wind. It will sure lure you into a down winder though.

In a race; I think my 5.5m Reactor would take it. It would make for an excellent race. Lets say of the 5 other people I occasionally buggy with; none of them have accounts on this forum; nor read this forum; and for sure would be unwilling to pilot either Kite for said comparison to happen. Id also like to tandem two buggies and use two kites at the same time; but none of them are that willing or adventurous.

I had the 4.4m Reactor out yesterday in some gusty off on Wind. Its tense; nerve racking; and slightly unpleasant when its lit up in a gust. Its not a lifty Kite per say or in general; but if it's up high and gets super powered; it sure wants to go up.

So Im not looking for more kites like that. Vapors, Reactors, etc.

Any time I pull out one of my big kites; they just flat out are not light Wind kites. 5m Flow, Octane, Flux, Beamer/Hornet or 4.6m Rage, 5m Blurr, 4.4m PKD SF, etc.

With all that said; some models do offer up 6 and 7 meter sizes but they have never exactly been known as light Wind kites. Also too; there are still a few models of kites I have never even personally seen before. Libres/Zebras/Coopers, etc.

Any leads on kites that buggy well in the 1-10mph zone?


And let me tell you; coming from a kiting background and having personally buggied at 20mph with around 5mph of Wind; it was extremely disapointing to find out from numerous sources and also from my own personal experience so far that windsurfing equipment wont plane in less then 10mph Wind. Total bummer.


And for some reason my iPhone wants the word Wind capitalized by default for reasons unknown. And yes; certain punctuation has to be omitted or the post appears blank and Im all but certain this has majorly contributed to the reduced activity on this board.




Current setup-

Gusty/Stormy: Sting 1.7, 2.4, 3.3
Main: Hornet 2, 3, 4
Alternate: Flux 2, 3, 4, 5
Light Wind: Reactor 5.5 or JOJO 9

Extra Variety: Yakuza 2.2, 2.7 - Soulfly 1.5, 2.2, 3.3, 4.4 - Beamer 2, 3 - Ozone Quattro 1, 3 - Flow 2, 3, 4 - HQ Alpha 3.5 - Cross Kites 4.5 - Rage 1.8, 2.5, 3.5, 4.7 - Blurr 3.5, 5 - Reactor 2.2, 2.8, 3.5, 4.4
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-10-2017 at 02:56 PM


RTZ - I might suggest heading in a single skin direction. Your location indicates inland (read janky) wind conditions so I'm going to go with that. I'd be taking a keen look at the 12.5m Born Kite LongStar 2 or 12m Flysurfer Peak 2 or 3. Superb light wind buggy engines one and all. There are both Peak and Born worship threads here on PKF and I'd suggest reading through those threads. Anything I'd write here has been written there already.

Good luck!




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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rtz


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Location: Edmond, OK
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[*] posted on 9-10-2017 at 03:22 PM


Our riding locations involve turning, often u turns, and acceleration is important. No real long distance cruising.

I need a kite on handles. I've flown kites on bars and I just don't have enough command over the brakes for my liking and being able to unhook frequently is a must.

I haven't heavily researched the Born kites yet but I seem to recall they can be flown on handles? Ill look into them.

Someone here had a Peak and now has some Peak2s. Just not quite nimble enough for my style. He landboards with his.




Current setup-

Gusty/Stormy: Sting 1.7, 2.4, 3.3
Main: Hornet 2, 3, 4
Alternate: Flux 2, 3, 4, 5
Light Wind: Reactor 5.5 or JOJO 9

Extra Variety: Yakuza 2.2, 2.7 - Soulfly 1.5, 2.2, 3.3, 4.4 - Beamer 2, 3 - Ozone Quattro 1, 3 - Flow 2, 3, 4 - HQ Alpha 3.5 - Cross Kites 4.5 - Rage 1.8, 2.5, 3.5, 4.7 - Blurr 3.5, 5 - Reactor 2.2, 2.8, 3.5, 4.4
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slapbasswoody


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Registered: 5-20-2011
Location: Sandy, Utah
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[*] posted on 9-11-2017 at 06:42 AM


RTZ

If you are looking for a fixed bridle kite for low winds then may I suggest a PL Vapor. Either a 13m or 16m. These are most definitely the best fixed bridle kites out there for low wind.
The only problem with going for really light wind kites is that they all turn like the an oil tanker.

Personally if you are not too worried about going fixed bridle then, most of the newer de-power foil kites will also do the job well.
I have a 15m Chrono V2 and was flying out on the salt flats in 6mph wind. once the apparent wind builds then you can be moving along quite well.
18m foil kites are the ones to go for if the wind is any lower but not sure if there is anything out there that can get you going in 1mph??????

Good luck finding what you want and may the winds be with you

Woody




PKA# K754
XXtreme XXRacer
Set of Reactor 3s
Chrono v2 9 - 15m
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 9-11-2017 at 09:12 AM


I've often been curious about the large size sky dog foils if they still make them. Maybe more friendly in the gusts than the race kites but big enough to be effective in light wind? You have probably already explored that option.
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Windstruck


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Registered: 5-16-2015
Location: Park City, UT, USA
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Mood: Feelin' oh so (single) skinny and Sysmic!

[*] posted on 9-11-2017 at 09:51 AM


I've been on the salt flats with Slapbasswoody when he was flying the 15 Chrono V2 and for a DP this could well be characterized as a superb low wind engine. I was flying a 12m Peak3 that day and was having the same levels of success and failure as Paul with the distinct caveat that he is an infinitely more skilled pilot than me. I'm with Paul, I don't imagine there will ever be a reliable 1 mph kite engine; that's just asking a tad too much I'm afraid. It has been my (limited) experience that base winds around 5 mph tend to have ample lulls dipping below this to the point where kites just fall out of the sky.

If a large square area FB kite is a must I would steer you AWAY from the larger Born-Kite NASA Star-3s. It is possible to fly NS3s via handles with Z-bridles and in fact is the way I have four small NS3s strung up. While it may seem that Single Skin is desirable from a weight to surface area issue, large (10.0 & 12.5m) NS3s have a tendency to backstall and as mentioned previously, turn very slowly as do all of the big kites in low winds. Z-bridling to put separate break lines on these kites exacerbates the issue of backstalling. This isn't such a big deal with small NS3s since they are flown in more powerful winds and can be turned more quickly to steer out of a stall/backstall. Finally, these large NS3s can be a whole lot of kite in the air when your 5-6 mph wind suddenly becomes a 10-12 mph wind. I had a bad crash a couple of years ago with a large NS3 in the air when I got pulled sideways right into a soccer goal with a particularly poorly timed gust.

For me, I just flat out think large FB kites are dicey buggy engines in all but truly expert flyers working their craft in large spaces, particularly if you need to get something done quickly in tight spaces to avoid fences, benches, goals, etc. The large high AR FB racing kites will be just a whole lot of kite to handle and not get lofted when the wind picks up as it will inevitably will, while the low AR large FB kites such as NS3s will suffer from backstall issues.

In the long run it might seem that going DP with a harness is the way to go in light winds for a non-competitive tight space setup. For what it's worth, the large (9.5 & 12.5m) Born-Kite LongStar-2s tend to turn more quickly than comparable 9 & 12m Peaks, but none of these large kites turn quickly in low wind conditions. Large barges turning slowly = forward planning for success.




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 9-11-2017 at 11:22 AM


Ultra low wind, no room to run and FB. Sounds like our local spot. Throw in your gusty winds and you put out a tall order!

The issue with real big kites like the 16m Vapor that shines on Sunset Beach is that these huge foils demand space. Smaller kites like 10m Reflex, 10.8 Reactor and 11.2? Vapor are better suited to your need to turn often and work well here. Even good 8 - 9m foils work better in our tight space.

Have you considered the 10m PKD Century 6.6 material that Jeff is unloading? Looks to me to fit your needs at a killer price?




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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Prussik




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[*] posted on 9-13-2017 at 10:03 AM



Quote:

NS3s have a tendency to backstall and as mentioned previously, turn very slowly as do all of the big kites in low winds. Z-bridling to put separate break lines on these kites exacerbates the issue of backstalling. This isn't such a big deal with small NS3s since they are flown in more powerful winds and can be turned more quickly to steer out of a stall/backstall.

No such issues or tendencies at all if you reduce the AOA and trailing edge pull a little. Can't blame Z-bridle which can only contribute to backstalling IF the lead to the trailing edge is too short. It seems all Nasas are bridled in an identical, old published scheme which favours strong downwind pull at the expense of wider window and causes backflying issues. Sorry, haven't I said the same thing about a dozen times before ?.
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Windstruck


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Location: Park City, UT, USA
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Mood: Feelin' oh so (single) skinny and Sysmic!

[*] posted on 9-13-2017 at 04:27 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Prussik  

Quote:

NS3s have a tendency to backstall and as mentioned previously, turn very slowly as do all of the big kites in low winds. Z-bridling to put separate break lines on these kites exacerbates the issue of backstalling. This isn't such a big deal with small NS3s since they are flown in more powerful winds and can be turned more quickly to steer out of a stall/backstall.

No such issues or tendencies at all if you reduce the AOA and trailing edge pull a little. Can't blame Z-bridle which can only contribute to backstalling IF the lead to the trailing edge is too short. It seems all Nasas are bridled in an identical, old published scheme which favours strong downwind pull at the expense of wider window and causes backflying issues. Sorry, haven't I said the same thing about a dozen times before ?.


Prussik - I stand corrected (or at least properly nuanced). In my shorthand I failed to mention that I was referring to the 10m and 12m NS3s with factory-set bridling. I have no doubt that a person with more know how than me could achieve the right bridle length balance as you described with resultant good results. Alas, such skills are currently beyond me, and bridle configuration presents a sort of "black box" for yours truly. Frankly, I wouldn't know where to start. :puzzled:





Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT00003
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