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Author: Subject: Tip the scales - Hornet, Beamer, Soulfly, etc.?
MichKite




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 08:31 PM


Quote: Originally posted by acampbell  
Still don't know why I ever sold my Rage 3.5. It was my go-to kite when the sands smoked (winds 20 + mph). Flixifoil line sets are great with those little pull-tabs on the loops.

MichKite, your choices and reasoning are sound. At this point go for cost or aesthetics.

Avoid Pansh as they have a reputation for needing tweaking; something that a newbie might be frustrated with.


Pull tabs for some type of tying convenience I imagine?

Thanks. After I try some with Tom I may have a better idea, but price and aesthetics are clear motivators right now. One of my weaknesses is paying more for minor preferences, like looks.

Haven't read much good about Pansh, but there seem to be some things that people like of theirs. Like the Flux mentioned earlier, or lines maybe? Hadn't considered them yet though.
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 08:34 PM


Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
3.3 soulfly is an awesome kite...jusayin


And I appreciate another vote of confidence as it's got a great price!

Do you have the Standard or Pro, as it seems the Standard is the one available at the moment?
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 08:40 PM


Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD  
Quote: Originally posted by MichKite  


PKD Buster Soulfly Pro 3.3M. Good all around, good bargain (though I never see prices to know how good), A/R 3.4, OK design. 3.3 too big? Lower price because of fewer features (ex. no sewn bridles)?






Who told you that lie? I'm holding one in my hands and the bridles are VERY SEWN.


Haha, as I mentioned I didn't know if it was accurate info, as there's a lot of old info floating around and they don't all apply to the different versions.

I had read it from this 2010 article that was a big help in understanding some basics and pointing me in some good directions. http://www.coastalwindsports.com/ChoosingAKite.html

I knew it was old info, but a lot of all-in-one kite info articles seem to be.
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 09:00 PM


Quote: Originally posted by rtz  
All good choices. I have them all. They will all run 30+mph in a kite buggy.

The current model Hornet is a very well behaved and refined kite. I didn't care much for the previous model Hornet II.

The current Beamer VI is the best model yet of the Beamers. Very similar to to the Hornet; yet slightly different to the point that to this day; I can't yet quantify the differences. If you could fly them both back to back; you would agree they are ever so slightly different.

The older Beamers were very different kites. The Beamer IV and older were very slow kites and gave the kite the reputation it has to those who flew it back then. The Beamer V was better; but not nearly as good as the current model.

Both those kites used to be far lower cost. They are so pricey now; they are basically pricing themselves out of their own markets.

The Rage is more of an "advanced" kite. You might not initially think it is as refined as the two above kites; but you will never outgrow it as it is more "stunt kite" like in my opinion. The downside to that is; initially flying it you might think it's not that great; but in time you would master it and appreciate it.

That's not to say the above kites you could outgrow; at least not in a kite buggy. You would eventually just be able to fly them in stronger and stronger winds. Much different then trying to anchor down all that power when static flying.

The PKD is very similar to the Rage in both its shape and flying characteristics to the point I have to wonder if it was influenced by and inspired by the Rage. Each of them can "propeller spin" on their center access. The hornet/beamer don't do it exactly the same.

You'll have to contact Jeff Earl(bigkid) directly to see if he has any 3.3's on hand and the price.

Personally; the Pansh Flux for the price can't be beat. Grab one and fly the heck out of it. You might get bored of static flying kites. Or you might want some kite that is bigger or smaller. At Least you only spent $60 or $80 on it and not $300+ like these other brands are wanting you to do.

I have the 1.4, 2, 3, 4, 5m Flux kites and fly the heck out of them and have been for the past year or more with the kite buggy. They will run with the best of them and I would love to race some people flying other kites to see how well they hold their own.

I would say though I would consider the Flux a more advanced kite. As said with the Rage; at first you might think "this kite is piece of junk"; but once you learn its quirks and nuances; you can deal with them and the kite will really shine.

Granted; with the Beamers and Hornets; they don't have any quirks or nuances and they "just fly". They fly real nice indeed; but I guess I get bored with them and choose something more quirky to liven things up a bit and see what I can make those other kites do.

Just depends on what you want.

Personally I couldn't decide and still wouldn't and couldn't so I just bought them all.


Thank you, that's some great input and I can see you have a lot of kites to base it on!

These differences may be tiny and not something I could pick up at first, but the reported behavior of the Hornet is something I'm liking.

Other than the unquantifiable, is there something specific that makes the Beamer VI better than the previous years? Like the quality, details, handles, etc.? Or you just mean it's flight?

PKD and Rage are big on my list right now as well. I started this thread to narrow it down, but really it's just making each sound better and adding some more. :)

The PKD has a great price, but it's the Standard and not the Pro at the moment. That may be fine, just something I'll have to weigh. Which do you have or have you used both and find both equally capable for the most part?

I'm not seeing an $80 price on the Pansh Flux though. The 3M is $160 for kite only, and $238 RTF. That's a good amount more than the PKD standard 3.3, and only about $50 less than a Hornet. Unless their sale ended and I missed the boat.

Thanks again!
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 09:18 PM


Quote: Originally posted by adambweird  
Hey Michkite and tomdiving, if you guys ever find yourselves down around Toledo, im not far away and i know of a couple decent spots for static and motion.


Sounds good, that's not too far of a drive! What kind of motion do you do?
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tomdiving




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 09:18 PM


the pansh stuff shows the 50% off price when you add it to your cart. the 3m is not available. the 3m blaze is apparently very lifty.
fly my flux 2m before you go that route.
the pull tabs on the lines makes it very easy to remove the line loops at either the kite or handle. I don't swap out lines/kites/handles normally, I just leave everything together and grab the kite du jour.
tom
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 4-30-2017 at 10:00 PM


Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving  
the pansh stuff shows the 50% off price when you add it to your cart. the 3m is not available. the 3m blaze is apparently very lifty.
fly my flux 2m before you go that route.
the pull tabs on the lines makes it very easy to remove the line loops at either the kite or handle. I don't swap out lines/kites/handles normally, I just leave everything together and grab the kite du jour.
tom


Ahh, I see the sale now, thanks.
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rtz


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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 05:32 AM


The current model Beamer flies nicer then the previous models. I only have the Pro versions of the PKD.

On the Pansh; it's a few dollars cheaper to add lines and handles separate. The RTF kit contains a lot of miscellaneous stuff. The Pansh handles are basic and Pansh needs to change how they route the lines through the handles. I just got done rebuilding a pair. Will see how long they hold up.






Current setup-

Gusty/Stormy: Sting 1.7, 2.4, 3.3
Main: Hornet 2, 3, 4
Alternate: Flux 2, 3, 4, 5
Light Wind: Reactor 5.5 or JOJO 9

Extra Variety: Yakuza 2.2, 2.7 - Soulfly 1.5, 2.2, 3.3, 4.4 - Beamer 2, 3 - Ozone Quattro 1, 3 - Flow 2, 3, 4 - HQ Alpha 3.5 - Cross Kites 4.5 - Rage 1.8, 2.5, 3.5, 4.7 - Blurr 3.5, 5 - Reactor 2.2, 2.8, 3.5, 4.4
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tomdiving




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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 06:39 AM
rtz


it looks like you plan to do a whole lotta handles, with the huge roll of tubing.
is it just a straight shot through, or do you have the tubing secured somehow within the handle?
tom
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rtz


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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 07:09 AM


I cut an opening in the middle of the plastic tubing and tied a knot inside the handle so the plastic stays one continuous piece.



Current setup-

Gusty/Stormy: Sting 1.7, 2.4, 3.3
Main: Hornet 2, 3, 4
Alternate: Flux 2, 3, 4, 5
Light Wind: Reactor 5.5 or JOJO 9

Extra Variety: Yakuza 2.2, 2.7 - Soulfly 1.5, 2.2, 3.3, 4.4 - Beamer 2, 3 - Ozone Quattro 1, 3 - Flow 2, 3, 4 - HQ Alpha 3.5 - Cross Kites 4.5 - Rage 1.8, 2.5, 3.5, 4.7 - Blurr 3.5, 5 - Reactor 2.2, 2.8, 3.5, 4.4
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tomdiving




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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 07:12 AM


brilliant!
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 07:25 AM


Small PKDs in use : 1.5m https://vimeo.com/163198317
(this one is a new guy I taught to fly in low winds then gave him a 1.5m buster out in big wind 30+ LOL https://vimeo.com/153709633 )
3.3mBuster soulflyPRO https://vimeo.com/145024222
2.8m PKD Century II https://vimeo.com/142196854
2.2m Buster and 2.8 Century II https://vimeo.com/80200976
4.4m buster pro w/ ATB https://vimeo.com/79060742
1.5m buster and 2.2m buster https://vimeo.com/65980936




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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MichKite




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[*] posted on 5-1-2017 at 08:50 PM


Quote: Originally posted by rtz  
The current model Beamer flies nicer then the previous models. I only have the Pro versions of the PKD.

On the Pansh; it's a few dollars cheaper to add lines and handles separate. The RTF kit contains a lot of miscellaneous stuff. The Pansh handles are basic and Pansh needs to change how they route the lines through the handles. I just got done rebuilding a pair. Will see how long they hold up.



Thanks. I won't be able to get the Pro it seems, but Standard is still quite a possibility.


Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD  
Small PKDs in use : 1.5m https://vimeo.com/163198317
(this one is a new guy I taught to fly in low winds then gave him a 1.5m buster out in big wind 30+ LOL https://vimeo.com/153709633 )
3.3mBuster soulflyPRO https://vimeo.com/145024222
2.8m PKD Century II https://vimeo.com/142196854
2.2m Buster and 2.8 Century II https://vimeo.com/80200976
4.4m buster pro w/ ATB https://vimeo.com/79060742
1.5m buster and 2.2m buster https://vimeo.com/65980936


Nice videos! If I had a beach like that I bet I'd be switching to motion real soon. Impressive what these smaller sizes can do, though I'm sure it's some pretty good wind off the ocean too. 3M seems overkill for the beginner in that area.
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 5-2-2017 at 05:44 AM


3m is still the standard beginner kite here. I tend to like higher winds so I seek out noreasters and tropical systems. I would not recommend that to a newby.




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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MichKite




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[*] posted on 5-2-2017 at 08:44 PM


Is there a wind speed to kite size chart for static flying I could use as a guideline to know what size is appropriate for given winds? I've searched, but they all seem to be for traction sports, mostly kite surfing.

I'm sure some comes with experience, but a guideline could be good. Something to make sure I don't take out the wrong size in too strong of a wind (or gusts) and get lifted up or supermanned. I'm 200lbs.
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 5-2-2017 at 08:47 PM


No one chart will cover all kites . Every kind and brand is different. It does not work like that. Each model will have it's own wind range.




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 5-2-2017 at 08:48 PM


and each size as well




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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MichKite




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[*] posted on 5-2-2017 at 10:19 PM


True, forgot about that part.
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 5-3-2017 at 06:39 AM


Quote: Originally posted by MichKite  
Is there a wind speed to kite size chart for static flying I could use as a guideline to know what size is appropriate for given winds? I've searched, but they all seem to be for traction sports, mostly kite surfing.

I'm sure some comes with experience, but a guideline could be good. Something to make sure I don't take out the wrong size in too strong of a wind (or gusts) and get lifted up or supermanned. I'm 200lbs.


Most companies supply a chart showing their models wind range. Size down a bit for static.

The important thing is to size your kite for the gusts. NOT the average wind speed. It is the gusts that will get you in trouble.

The Flux isn't too bad a kite but ..... The money you save going in you will lose on selling.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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acampbell


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[*] posted on 5-3-2017 at 07:23 AM


Yeah, charts that come with kites are often the wishful thinking of the designer and/ or predicated on the skill of the pilot, which, ironically negates the value of the chart in the first place. For example, when a large foil is said to be usable in 4 mph winds, this really requires much more skill than you would think. Sme with small kites in higher winds. My Rage 3.5 was my go-to kite for high winds over 20 mph, but only after a lot of time and my confidence in launching at the edge of the window.

I think it best that you start with any kite and start in conservative conditions at the risk of being under-powered. Then you can extrapolate from there based on your mounting experience and knowledge of local conditions.

Bladerunner is right of course about sizing for gusts; many here will tell you that their woors spanking was from smaller kites.




Angus Campbell
Coastal Wind Sports
...where life is better when it blows!
Golden Isles Region, Georgia, USA
912-577-3920 new number

Flying on the beaches of Jekyll Island
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 5-3-2017 at 06:31 PM


Thanks. I was thinking the gusts were what I was going to base things on if there were a chart, as I imagine the surprise pull is more dangerous than a clean wind of the same speed. I'll be conservative and learn to fly the window safely.
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MichKite




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[*] posted on 5-16-2017 at 08:36 PM


Thought I'd update everyone here so you can finally get some rest after waiting with excitement. With the help of everyone here and assistance by TomDiving I settled on the Rage 1.8 as my first quad line kite. Several reasons made it a great first choice. One, it's small and quick. Two, it was on sale. Three, it's a beast in its own right for static flying, and I could use some time to work my way up before getting yanked all over the place by a bigger kite. Four, the adjustable bridle makes it more than one size kite in my mind. It seemed to have a definite effect on the strength of pull it had.

The adjustable bridle is a great feature to get more than one demeanor out of one kite, and I'm a fan of having options. Especially in a first purchase. Plus, the way it pulls is a hell of a workout and the bigger ones just kick my ass for now.

Thank you everyone for your help. I've still got my eye on the 2.5 Rage or 3M Hornet for a step up, but will gauge the 1.8 for now. If my winds don't pull enough, I'll bite soon enough.
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