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Author: Subject: Phantom
Blitzhound


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[*] posted on 1-28-2017 at 01:41 PM
Phantom


Thought I'd throw a line out and see if I get any bites. I'd like to find a 9m Phantom II. If anyone has or knows someone that might be interested in parting ways with one please let me know. I have a 15m and I absolutely love it. It's my normal go to. But by the time I feel OP it's blowing pretty good. All my high wind kites are FB. I'd like to add a nice high wind DP to the collection.



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BeamerBob


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[*] posted on 1-28-2017 at 02:05 PM


I owned one and flew another and both were unstable when the speeds got high. I went faster on my 12m. It was near perfect.



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Blitzhound


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Mood: I got a Sickness, and the only cure is more Kite Buggyin!

[*] posted on 1-28-2017 at 05:15 PM


So you think the 12m would be a better pairing with the 15m? Good to know about the 9m. I'm pretty comfortable with the 15m up to about 18-20mph I have a 10m Venom but the Phantom just out performs the Venom in handling. She's also beginning to show her age. I'm open to suggestions on a good high wind pairing with my 15m Phantom. Sub 7m.



NAPKA US541
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Flysurfer Peak3 12m
HQ Alpha 1.5m, HQ Beamer V 5.0m, HQ Neo 8.0m,
Pansh Legend 2.0m
PL Viper S 2.6m, PL Phantom II 15m
Best Bularoo 7m, Best Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD Century Soulfly II 2.2m, 2.8m, 3.5m, 4.5m, 6.0m, 8.0m, 10m
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BeamerBob


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[*] posted on 1-29-2017 at 12:31 AM


I flew the 12 in winds up to 28 mph but that was crazy overpowered. I couldn't turn upwind at the end of the run and had to turn downwind far enough to get rid of some speed so I could turn around. So not really a high wind kite but the 12 would add some top end above your 15.



Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
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IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
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PL Phantom 6m, 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 6m, Vapors 2.7, 3.2, 3.8, 4.5, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
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shehatesmyhobbies


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[*] posted on 1-29-2017 at 07:44 AM


edited, just realized you were looking for 9m phantom II





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Blitzhound


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[*] posted on 1-29-2017 at 10:10 AM


Bobby says the 9m is unstable I'll take his word for it. I'm open to other possibilities. In high winds the last thing I want is a squirrelly kite. I just really liked my 15m Phantom II and thought the 9 would be just as good. Maybe a small Venom II or a Synergy? Of are the smaller arcs not as good as the larger ones? I've had my 10m Venom in 35mph wind. Was a very well behaved kite for such a nasty day.



NAPKA US541
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Flysurfer Peak3 12m
HQ Alpha 1.5m, HQ Beamer V 5.0m, HQ Neo 8.0m,
Pansh Legend 2.0m
PL Viper S 2.6m, PL Phantom II 15m
Best Bularoo 7m, Best Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD Century Soulfly II 2.2m, 2.8m, 3.5m, 4.5m, 6.0m, 8.0m, 10m
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[*] posted on 1-29-2017 at 12:23 PM


I only flew two of the 9m P IIs but they both flew the same. There are some videos of me flying the 12m in my YouTube link. Sounds like the 12 flies like your 15.



Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana VIII 8m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m, HQ Prodigy 3.4m, 10.5m
PL Phantom 6m, 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 6m, Vapors 2.7, 3.2, 3.8, 4.5, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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shehatesmyhobbies


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[*] posted on 1-29-2017 at 06:34 PM


I really like my Original Phantom 9m on a wider bar, same bar I fly the 12m and 18m. In my opinion it changes the in air shape just enough to slow down herky jerky movements in higher end winds. It does however make the kite respond fairly fast so you need to be prepared. I haven't had the Phantom II's out enough to really tweak them as I always go for my faithful Phantoms





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www.napka.org

302 480 6008

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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 1-30-2017 at 04:32 PM


If I was spending money on a depower kite and already had your quiver I would be looking at the new Born Kite Nasa Star 3 . Maybe I am just encouraging you because I desperately want to try it at IBX!

What is wrong with your 8m Neo? Too much power in high winds? Sounds like your 10m Venom II is doing the job?

Personally, If my 7m Pulse or 10m Synergy is too much kite I revert to survival kiting. For that I use my almost no lift 2.5 profoil. Probably similar to your legend?




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

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Blitzhound


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[*] posted on 1-30-2017 at 07:46 PM


Hey Bladerunner. The 10m Venom is a first gen. It's getting old and has a lot of repairs. It's just well abused and getting wore out. She does indeed do the job and I like her as a high wind kite. But she's kind of a pig in the turns. That's really the only complaint I have. So basically I was thing of finding her a replacement and retiring her. I like my Phantom so much, she turns on a dime and thought a smaller size like the 10m Venom might be a good choice. The Neo is a solid kite. I was just looking for something a little smaller. All though you do bring up a good point. There is nothing wrong with the kite but it needs better safety. Maybe that might be the better option to just find an updated bar. I feel very safe under my Arcs. I know if I pop the safety I'm going to lose all power right now. I also know that if I pop the safety on my Neo in high winds it isn't going to do much good. She's still gonna have plenty of pull. Maybe that's why I never gave it any consideration. It's not a very safe high wind kite. I know this from experience. I popped the top hat safety after getting yarded out of the buggy and all it did was relieve some of the power. It still kept dragging me. I had to completely release and pop the chicken loop. Kinda intense but a blast. I might be kinda an odd duck. I like the DP's and I like the FB's. There both a different kind of ride. My goal is to build two quivers essentially. A FB quiver and a DP quiver. But as it stands if the wind picks up too much for my smallest DP. I have to switch to a FB. My fav FB in high winds is my 2.6m ViperS. The Legend suck balls! No offense to pansh fans. But it's super unstable and unpredictable. It's like putting a leash on a cat then putting said cat in a bag. Shaking it up and letting it go and trying to hold on to the leash. It's either going to kill you or it's gonna be one hell of a ride.



NAPKA US541
New Tech Kratos
Flysurfer Peak3 12m
HQ Alpha 1.5m, HQ Beamer V 5.0m, HQ Neo 8.0m,
Pansh Legend 2.0m
PL Viper S 2.6m, PL Phantom II 15m
Best Bularoo 7m, Best Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD Century Soulfly II 2.2m, 2.8m, 3.5m, 4.5m, 6.0m, 8.0m, 10m
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 1-31-2017 at 04:29 PM


I wonder if you couldn't use a single line flag out system on your Neo like on your Venom? Maybe even the same bar?



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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Blitzhound


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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 12:35 PM


I feel like an idiot. I never even thought about that. Did I mention I lack a functioning brain.



NAPKA US541
New Tech Kratos
Flysurfer Peak3 12m
HQ Alpha 1.5m, HQ Beamer V 5.0m, HQ Neo 8.0m,
Pansh Legend 2.0m
PL Viper S 2.6m, PL Phantom II 15m
Best Bularoo 7m, Best Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD Century Soulfly II 2.2m, 2.8m, 3.5m, 4.5m, 6.0m, 8.0m, 10m
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 03:35 PM


you confirmed my suspensions of top hat safety. I haven't owned one but always figured they would work as good as fixed bridles on kite killers when in high wind and all tension is thrown on back lines when deployed. Which means it SUCKS. HQ hung onto top hat safety as long as they could lol.
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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 05:35 PM


Are you mixing up top hat safety with a flag system? The issue on the NEO was that you still had a fully inflated kite that could catch the wind. On the Montana, when I've had to pull the safety under duress, it flags to the back lines and might flop around a bit on its way down, but the power is gone and the kite can't fly again until you reset the safety.



Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana VIII 8m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m, HQ Prodigy 3.4m, 10.5m
PL Phantom 6m, 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 6m, Vapors 2.7, 3.2, 3.8, 4.5, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 05:55 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
Are you mixing up top hat safety with a flag system? The issue on the NEO was that you still had a fully inflated kite that could catch the wind. On the Montana, when I've had to pull the safety under duress, it flags to the back lines and might flop around a bit on its way down, but the power is gone and the kite can't fly again until you reset the safety.


Not sure what a flag system is other than front line or back line flag?? Since I haven't used one in the flesh, maybe I don't understand how a top hat works. When you pull the top hat does it release both of the front lines at once? That's how I always thought of it. Maybe incorrectly.
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 06:06 PM


After googling top hat safety, it led me to hardwarter kites site and the Zeekai coincidentally. A top hat works as I thought releasing tension from front lines and inducing a stall. My point is, that it's similar to releasing front line tension on fixed bridle (letting go to kite killers). At least in theory. I haven't used a top hat safety but I have used kite killers. MOST of the time releasing to kite killers will work, however, when it's decently windy, I've had situations where the kite is still powered enough to fly backwards and drag you.

I had a situation with a blade that I couldn't get away from the power until I was able to remove a kite killer. Never wore them again nor would I trust any system that doesn't flag to a single line.

Only depower I've flown are arcs and peaks. Both fls. Although anything can happen, I felt very safe when deploying the fls. Which is not all that infrequent in my wind.
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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 09:21 PM


As I understand the term " Top Hat " is the Red Knob that slid off of my Peter Lynn 07 bar last month.
Chris from hardwater tells me this not uncommon with the 07 !!!!!! Thanks Chris for the knowledge and FREE new top hat! :cool:

Blitzhound's issue with the Neo is that it stalls on both back lines like you picture but being close cell is still grabs wind on the ground instead of crumpling up.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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pbc




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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 09:44 PM


Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
After googling top hat safety, it led me to hardwarter kites site and the Zeekai coincidentally. A top hat works as I thought releasing tension from front lines and inducing a stall. My point is, that it's similar to releasing front line tension on fixed bridle (letting go to kite killers). At least in theory. I haven't used a top hat safety but I have used kite killers. MOST of the time releasing to kite killers will work, however, when it's decently windy, I've had situations where the kite is still powered enough to fly backwards and drag you.

I had a situation with a blade that I couldn't get away from the power until I was able to remove a kite killer. Never wore them again nor would I trust any system that doesn't flag to a single line.

Only depower I've flown are arcs and peaks. Both fls. Although anything can happen, I felt very safe when deploying the fls. Which is not all that infrequent in my wind.


If you are going to be tethered to a "flagged" kite you still need some mechanism to separate from the kite should the flagging fail. I have only ever had two flagout-failures. On one the kite was low and ahead of the buggy near the ground. When I flagged the kite the bar it caught on the front fork. I kicked it the bar off the fork and the flagout finished.

In the second event the bar caught on piled up line at about 70% flagout. This was very unpleasant. The kite spun under moderately high load all the way to the ground.

In the latter case I really should have dumped the whole rig, but my downfield was not great, so I rode it out. It sucked and it was a pain to untangle, but overall was not bad.

Make sure you have the ability to completely separate from the kite. You might just need it someday.

Philip




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Blitzhound


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[*] posted on 2-1-2017 at 10:37 PM


As Bladerunner said the top hat releases tension on both front lines. But in strong enough winds. This merely causes the kite to essentially fly backwards. The kite stays inflated on the ground and continues to pull. It's not fun at all. I think I'll take Bladerunners suggestions and try the Neo on my Navigator SL bar with a front line flagout setup. I hope it works. I really like the Neo! She's a beautiful kite. Fun to fly, just a bit scary if the winds get too high.



NAPKA US541
New Tech Kratos
Flysurfer Peak3 12m
HQ Alpha 1.5m, HQ Beamer V 5.0m, HQ Neo 8.0m,
Pansh Legend 2.0m
PL Viper S 2.6m, PL Phantom II 15m
Best Bularoo 7m, Best Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD Century Soulfly II 2.2m, 2.8m, 3.5m, 4.5m, 6.0m, 8.0m, 10m
Libre Hardcore, MG Croozer
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Blitzhound


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Mood: I got a Sickness, and the only cure is more Kite Buggyin!

[*] posted on 2-4-2017 at 03:19 PM


Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
After googling top hat safety, it led me to hardwarter kites site and the Zeekai coincidentally. A top hat works as I thought releasing tension from front lines and inducing a stall. My point is, that it's similar to releasing front line tension on fixed bridle (letting go to kite killers). At least in theory. I haven't used a top hat safety but I have used kite killers. MOST of the time releasing to kite killers will work, however, when it's decently windy, I've had situations where the kite is still powered enough to fly backwards and drag you.

I had a situation with a blade that I couldn't get away from the power until I was able to remove a kite killer. Never wore them again nor would I trust any system that doesn't flag to a single line.
Only depower I've flown are arcs and peaks. Both fls. Although anything can happen, I felt very safe when deploying the fls. Which is not all that infrequent in my wind.


You're absolutely right about the top hats Ssayer. Pulling it releases one side of the doubled over trim line. Essentially lengthening the front lines and causing a stall. Most of the time it works as intended. But if you're in an overpowered situation. It will Cause the kite to fly backwards to the ground still inflated and powered up. While the power is reduced it's still pretty strong. Depending on wind of coarse. This has happened to me three times now. Twice with the Neo and once with the Montana. The Montana was scary. I couldn't get the chicken loop to open it had gotten bound up and was under tention. Luckily my brother was at the beach with me and was able to grab the kite. I'm sure there was a lot of things that I coulda and/or shoulda done different...anyway. At this point I don't trust these kites in high wind. So when the wind starts picking up beyond my comfort zone. I switch to my FB's. But I haven't tried flying them on a different bar. I have always just left them connected to the bars they came with. I'm gonna have to try them on a newer bar.




NAPKA US541
New Tech Kratos
Flysurfer Peak3 12m
HQ Alpha 1.5m, HQ Beamer V 5.0m, HQ Neo 8.0m,
Pansh Legend 2.0m
PL Viper S 2.6m, PL Phantom II 15m
Best Bularoo 7m, Best Waroo 9m, 12m
PKD Century Soulfly II 2.2m, 2.8m, 3.5m, 4.5m, 6.0m, 8.0m, 10m
Libre Hardcore, MG Croozer
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