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Author: Subject: Frenzy vs Speed 3 upper end
vtliter




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[*] posted on 12-12-2016 at 03:24 PM
Frenzy vs Speed 3 upper end


Here's the question. I have a much loved Frenzy 7 that has a huge windrange. I'm eying up a Speed3 12m as a possible replacement.
I'm wondering if anyone here has first hand experience with both of these kites.

I've owned plenty of Frenzy's and have owned Pulse 2's and larger Speed 3's.

What I'm curious about is the power comparison of an open cell vs closed cell kite. I know a closed cell of the same size will have less low end. High end difference is my primary concern as I've got low end covered with other kites.

Would the 12 cover me in the same windrange?

Thanks all!




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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 12-12-2016 at 04:53 PM


I am shocked to see that the posted top end for both those kites is 25kts.

I looked into it thinking no way a 7 and 12m would have the same top end. Hard for a little guy like me to look at a 12m ( non arc ) as a high wind kite.

Are you sure you find open cell gives you a better bottom end? I haven't owned any open cell depower kites but feel that once filled, closed cell makes for a great low end?




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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vtliter




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[*] posted on 12-12-2016 at 05:09 PM


Yep, a 7 Frenzy has way more low end than an 8m Pulse2 or Unity. High end they're pretty much on par though. The Speeds have amazing amounts of depower so don't distrust that the 2 kites I'm asking to be compared have the same high end and possibly more on the 12?



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nate76




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[*] posted on 12-12-2016 at 08:07 PM


I'll say this: take any manufactures' wind range recommendations with a grain of salt. There are so many factors that go into "usable" wind range: are you riding water/land/snow? Does useable mean it will stay in the air at that speed or will be rideable on land/snow/water at that speed? Are snow conditions fast/slow or ice? How gusty is the wind, altitude, etc. etc...

I'm guilty of when I first started kiting, living and dying by the numbers printed in some pamphlet or the back end of a user manual. Then you begin to realize its very subjective and person-dependent.

So I guess that's all to say you're doing the right thing by asking other people's opinions who have tried them both and can give real-world advice on how they compare. :thumbup:




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Feyd


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[*] posted on 12-13-2016 at 05:44 AM


I think most of us are aware that factory posted wind ranges are a reference point. An arbitrary one at best but still useful in comparing apples to other apples. There are many variables that affect the actual usable wind ranges of a kite, rider experience being one of the biggest factors.

The top end on Speeds always seemed pretty high for a given kite and until I started flying them I was amazed at how riders 60lbs lighter than myself could hold down a 12m Speed in conditions that I struggle to hold down a 12m Frenzy. But now I understand, Speeds aren't as powerful. They're faster in most cases, like a modern race kite, but lack grunt (like a modern race kite). I often feel underpowered on Speeds after the 2nd generation. Going from Arcs to a Speed I expected more ummpfh. But it wasn't there. Soon after I looked up the Projected Area and saw that the PA numbers were lower than I would have imagined. And if there is anything IMO that the manufacturers should post as reference it PA and AR. T

I'm with Blade on what I consider a high wind kite and 12m Speed isn't it. Heck a 7m Frenzy FXY wouldn't be my choice. I suppose it depends on what you consider high wind. Is 25kts Hugh wind? Sure, it can be.

Personally, I never liked the Frenzy FXY. It was the first version to really depart from the feel of the Frenzy series prior to that kite and I never warmed up to it. Always felt under powered, too light in the bar but at the same time, could be lifty as hell. But to be fair, when that kite came out I was still riding for Peter Lynn so I probably didn't give it enough of a chance.

IMO, if high wind is the situation, I'd rather be on the Frenzy. Easier to manage on the ground in high winds which for me is almost as important as how the kite is in the air during high wind rides. Also, the FXY IMO is a better gust handler in high frequency gusting which is what we see here locally. Also the Frenzy is a lot less prone to bowtie and easier to get out of a bowtie while riding. Otherwise the top ends are essentially the same.




Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, HQ and Flysurfer kites.
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Feyd


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[*] posted on 12-13-2016 at 05:50 AM


This said, the 12m would make a nice addition to your quiver. :o



Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, HQ and Flysurfer kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 518-407-KITE
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vtliter




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[*] posted on 12-13-2016 at 08:01 AM


Thanks Chris
Ground management is super key in the winter. For reference high winds to me are over 35 and not what I'd sanely be using a Speed 12 in. Frenzy's have always been sooo easy to manage compared to FS'rs. I've found small inflatables to be the best weapon for nuke winds, at least for me.
My post is probably confusing. Just soliciting comments on whether the 12 is a good replacement for the 7 or whether this would be foolhardy. It's a purple speed so tough to pass on!




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Feyd


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[*] posted on 12-13-2016 at 09:41 AM


I would agree, 35 is high wind country.:D Also It is hard to beat an LEI in high winds. In regards to replacing a 7m with a 12m as fool hardy? Maybe.

But as you said. PURPLE. :evil:




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vtliter




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[*] posted on 12-13-2016 at 02:58 PM


Gotta say the Lotus 15 is quite sweet in the mid 20's! but it ain't purple. As attractive as this 12 is, it probably isn't the most sanguine choice. Probably should be looking for a Speed5 9 or lotus 10. Far less overlap



Ozone Frenzy 5
Ozone Frenzy FYX 7
Speed 4 Lotus 15
Cabrinha Switchblade 10
Cabrinha Switchblade 8
Slingshot RPM 6
Lightwave Tsunami 137
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vtliter




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[*] posted on 12-13-2016 at 03:08 PM


Gotta say the Lotus 15 is quite sweet in the mid 20's! but it ain't purple. As attractive as this 12 is, it probably isn't the most sanguine choice. Probably should be looking for a Speed5 9 or lotus 10. Far less overlap



Ozone Frenzy 5
Ozone Frenzy FYX 7
Speed 4 Lotus 15
Cabrinha Switchblade 10
Cabrinha Switchblade 8
Slingshot RPM 6
Lightwave Tsunami 137
Spleene Session
Shinnster
Cabrinha Secret Weapon
Shinn Jackson foilboard
MBS Comp 16
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