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Author: Subject: Born Kite LongStar 2
John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 01:54 PM
Born Kite LongStar 2


A new LongStar has appeared on the Born-Kite website...and very promising it looks too. From the piccies, it seems to be more like a Peak2 than the LongStar 1. Very interesting..... LongStar 2



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ssayre




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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 02:09 PM


Very interesting indeed. I'd like to get my hands on one of those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D79VP_jE6fw&feature=yout...
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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 02:19 PM


I like the ground stake rings and double stopper balls. Don't like that the video showed down wind runs only and no return upwind.



Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 02:20 PM


I wonder if this is what has become of the Ultra-Star.....either way, judging by the video, it does look promising indeed.:thumbup:



Libre Vmax, Alloy Vermin buggy.
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Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
My Music is available here: http://www.soundclick.com/members/default.cfm?member=jbholga...
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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 02:42 PM


Agreed - look greatly refined from the Long Star V-1.0. Double stopper ball is similar in concept to the Peak2's stopper ball and is a superb feature in a DP kite, ideal for making it a 1-finger controlled park and ride kite under long open conditions.

I believe I was the US "early adopter" for the original Long Stars. Somebody else gets to do it this time. Plus, I've got the smaller sizes well covered in single skin fury with my 4m and 6m Peak2s. I'm holding out for a (hoped for) gargantuan Peak3!

Congrats extended to Steffen nonetheless for what appears to be a fine kite.




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 04:32 PM


They seem to have 'borrowed' the PeaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s use of plastic stiffeners for leading edge.

Prices are a lot cheaper than Peaks.

If they have similar performance to Peaks, the cost really plays in Steffen's favor.

I bet upwind may be similar to peaks- and PeaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s upwind is surprisingly good.

(Only three sizes.)
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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 04:34 PM


That twin stopper ball looks like the answer to a question I have had for a while?

Why could I not put one of these on my 4 line Arc bars and 5 line Speed bar ? I would really enjoy it on the Speed in particular.

If I am correct and it would work do you think Born would sell just the stoppers?




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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soliver




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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 05:55 PM


I like the look of that!... I love my P1... maybe time to change or expand the quiver!



NAPKA US 593
In real life they call me "Spencer"

Flying-- Flysurfer: 6m Peak 1 (A Minty Fresh generous gift) & 12m Peak 2 (The gnat fart catcher)
Riding-- VTT Stinger-XR Hybrid & PL XR Frankenbuggy
Current PB-- 28.5 mph,... MAN THAT'S FAST!!!
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Allow yourself to be moved by that which cannot be seen.

She blogs about scrapbooking,... what a nerd.
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-4-2016 at 09:27 PM



Quote:

Prices are a lot cheaper than Peaks.


Must work out a bit cheaper in US dollars. In AU dollars they're around $100 cheaper if you include the bar. Now, I'm only guessing by looking at the pictures, but it looks like they may have a rear line safety....so maybe some of the older Ozone and HQ bars might work on them - and that would save a bit of $$.

Hope to have one heading XS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s way for a demo.




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Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
My Music is available here: http://www.soundclick.com/members/default.cfm?member=jbholga...
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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 03:58 AM


Oops... forgot to include price of bar, John...:duh:


Bar is as much as the 3.5m kite.

... so maybe an older Ozone/HQ bar might save $, indeed...Bet some could even make one(just add safety release-and consider the $10 Panic Snap option).


AUD to USD rate is 1 to .74,BTW...so costs are 25% less here than for you.

So can this compete with a Peak is the question? Maybe.
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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 05:47 AM


John has his "cheeseburger wrapper" and "little burger" Peak2s (6 and 4m, respectively) for some dandy head to heads. Most interested to see and read your report Mr Holgate!



Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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soliver




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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 05:53 AM


If you look closer at the pics, it appears as though it is a different sort of depower. Like with the NS3 where the "depower" comes from crumpling the nose, it looks like the depower on the LS2 crumples the midsection of the kite. I might be wrong, but the sizes to me indicate that its not a true depower as we know it.



NAPKA US 593
In real life they call me "Spencer"

Flying-- Flysurfer: 6m Peak 1 (A Minty Fresh generous gift) & 12m Peak 2 (The gnat fart catcher)
Riding-- VTT Stinger-XR Hybrid & PL XR Frankenbuggy
Current PB-- 28.5 mph,... MAN THAT'S FAST!!!
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She blogs about scrapbooking,... what a nerd.
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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 06:38 AM


Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Very interesting indeed. I'd like to get my hands on one of those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D79VP_jE6fw&feature=yout...


Cool video. Born is always innovating! So who is going to be the first kid on his block to get one of these? :D





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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 06:46 AM


Someone could sell me their gently used cheeseburger wrapper
aka Pek2 6m so they would have some $$$$ towards getting
a Longstar2.

Seriously, I am shopping for a Peak2 6m for Christmas..
Get in the spirit.




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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 04:11 PM


Was wondering the same thing. Pre Ultra Star? Very cool looking kite. :thumbup:



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
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http://hint.fm/wind/

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ssayre




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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 06:23 PM


Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
If you look closer at the pics, it appears as though it is a different sort of depower. Like with the NS3 where the "depower" comes from crumpling the nose, it looks like the depower on the LS2 crumples the midsection of the kite. I might be wrong, but the sizes to me indicate that its not a true depower as we know it.


Look closer. It sure looks to me like it's a regular depower kite. It clearly shows the 2 pulley mixer and you can tell when it shows him flying. Also I didn't see any lines to the "nose".
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-5-2016 at 10:14 PM


Another short vid of the LongStar 2 in flight....





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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 04:32 AM


:thumbup:



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 05:27 AM


The close up in the video shows a really interesting design feature. Single skin kites that I've seen (Peak, Uniq, the "Skin" and Ian's Hammer) have a lot of ribs that go from the leading edge to the trailing edge. This one seems to just have a bunch of small ribs that puts shape into the nose. It appears that the rest of the shape is created by the bridles much like a NASA. Pretty cool.



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ssayre




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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 06:08 AM


Good eye Randy. I didnt see that initially.
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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 06:48 AM


I have to agree that this is an interesting looking kite. I suspect it is a 4.5 liner; I don't see a system for flagging out the kite with a 5th line all the way to the fabric. Agree too that the rib design is intriguing. The conditions in the video were clearly ideal with beautiful wide open space for clean strong wind. I'm curious about "tip-tuck" and other miladies that can plague the Peak2s from time to time in less-than-ideal wind conditions. Kites looked filled out and steady as a rock in the video of course; no tip tuck, no trailing edge flutter, etc. Someone mentioned above about up-wind capability. That too is important of course.

Another thing I'd be curious about is how much DP these kites have. Hard to tell just seeing the close up shots depicting the AOA change. The 6m and 4m P2s (cheeseburger wrapper and little burger) have crazy amounts of DP, especially little burger. I've been on the Ivanpah playa with little burger up screaming along with the bar in and practically rolling to a stop with the bar out. Sure little burger is flapping like an angry seagull with the bar out, but who cares? IMHO, massive amounts of DP is what make these (relatively) small SS kites really shine.

I'm always pulling for Steffen and Kerstin and want nothing but success for them. Steffen is a crazy dude and I'm happy he's in the game and innovating. I'm excited to see how the LS2s pan out, in somebody's hands other than mine. :evil:




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 01:39 PM


In some diagrams that Steffen sent me, the angle of attack will decrease as the bar is let out and the curve/depth of the kite will flatten out also. From the diagram it looks like the fabric at the trailing edge can go quite slack - having said that, I'm only looking at line drawings.

From the other pics I've seen (and you can see them on this thread here: http://www.extremekites.com.au/topic/16520-born-kite-longsta... ) it looks like a trailing edge safety along both sides of the kite. Not sure if it's a separate line for those or just a release to rear lines. I think I can see five lines in the video. I'll be able to let you know in a week or two.

It really will need to be as good or better than the Peak 2's as that's obviously the closest competition to the LS2 and the price (with bar) is not hugely different.

Oh, and it's got 182 bridles! I was also interested to note that there are no ribs on the belly of the kite like the Peaks have. And just going by the video, it seems to hold a better trailing edge curve than my Peak 2's do (which was the reason the 6m got called a 'hamburger wrapper' by Chook who will remain completely anonymous. Oh, damn, I typed that out loud!




Libre Vmax, Alloy Vermin buggy.
Ozone Access/Method/Riot/Imps/
Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
My Music is available here: http://www.soundclick.com/members/default.cfm?member=jbholga...
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YouTube vids here: http://www.youtube.com/user/quedecree?feature=mhee
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 02:54 PM


Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate  
In some diagrams that Steffen sent me, the angle of attack will decrease as the bar is let out and the curve/depth of the kite will flatten out also. From the diagram it looks like the fabric at the trailing edge can go quite slack - having said that, I'm only looking at line drawings.

From the other pics I've seen (and you can see them on this thread here: http://www.extremekites.com.au/topic/16520-born-kite-longsta... ) it looks like a trailing edge safety along both sides of the kite. Not sure if it's a separate line for those or just a release to rear lines. I think I can see five lines in the video. I'll be able to let you know in a week or two.

It really will need to be as good or better than the Peak 2's as that's obviously the closest competition to the LS2 and the price (with bar) is not hugely different.

Oh, and it's got 182 bridles! I was also interested to note that there are no ribs on the belly of the kite like the Peaks have. And just going by the video, it seems to hold a better trailing edge curve than my Peak 2's do (which was the reason the 6m got called a 'hamburger wrapper' by Chook who will remain completely anonymous. Oh, damn, I typed that out loud!


182 bridles.... oh my! :o

Steffen most kindly dropped me a note a couple of days ago alerting me to the delivery of his new baby. I posed the following questions to him this morning. I'll post what I find out:

"Lots of good chatter on PKF and XK about your new LS2s. Us kite geeks are curious about a couple of things: First, is your pulley system such that you now have more or less a traditional de-power setup with the pulleys up by the bridles such that movement of the bar in or out only changes the angle of attack? I don't see the pulley system anymore at the bar that you had to reverse things with the LS1. Second, how does your safety system work? I'm thinking you now have a 4.5 line system similar to, say, a Flysurfer Peak2, such that deployment of the safety flags the kite out on one of the brake lines. None of us watching your videos have noticed a 5th line going all the way to the kite. Third, are you able to compare the amount of DP you achieve with pushing the bar out, again compared to the 4m or 6m Peak2? These just seem to be the most comparable kites which is why I'm referring to them again and again. Finally, something that is a bit of a problem with Peak2s is "tip tuck" collapse and extreme trailing-edge flapping when pushing the bar forward. How are these traits with your new LS2s?"




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 12-6-2016 at 03:08 PM


182 bridles.....guess I won't be trying to build my own version of that one. My record is 48, I think.





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[*] posted on 12-7-2016 at 08:40 AM


I got an email back from Steffen Born. So, straight from the horse's mouth:

But now to your questions:

The pulley system is now in the kite and the depower function works according to the following principle:


[img][/img]


[img][/img]


[img][/img]


The LongStar-2 flies amazingly stable, it is a huge difference to the LongStar-1.
It also flies significantly different than the peak 2.

The safety is provided by a lateral safety line on the front line.
Just as it is practiced with two lines kites.

[img][/img]

A comparative to other kites should not be made by the manufacturer. For this reason, I sent a test kite to John Holgate. He is competent and will certainly make an objective judgment.




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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SWATK Member UT00003
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-7-2016 at 01:39 PM



Quote:

it looks like a trailing edge safety along both sides of the kite.


Just goes to show how looking at pictures can bring you undone :rolleyes: I had assumed that the picture with 'trailing edge leash' written on it was for the safety. Obviously not....




Libre Vmax, Alloy Vermin buggy.
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Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
My Music is available here: http://www.soundclick.com/members/default.cfm?member=jbholga...
And here: http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnHolgate
YouTube vids here: http://www.youtube.com/user/quedecree?feature=mhee
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soliver




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[*] posted on 12-8-2016 at 06:13 AM


Very interesting; it looks like from the diagram above that the Depow engages one of 2 sets of bridles to flag in or flag out, haven't seen that before, that may explain the number of bridles!
Thanks for sharing that Steve!

I stand (or at least I sit) corrected!... Just looking at the photos (yes I noticed the pulleys) it looked like the middle or trailing edge just crumpled. I couldn't see the change in AoA.

It deffo looks like a cool kite, but the sizes (short of the 7.5m) all seem awfully small for DP, even as SS kites.

I couldn't afford one anyway... gots to go make kitchen cabinets now :no:




NAPKA US 593
In real life they call me "Spencer"

Flying-- Flysurfer: 6m Peak 1 (A Minty Fresh generous gift) & 12m Peak 2 (The gnat fart catcher)
Riding-- VTT Stinger-XR Hybrid & PL XR Frankenbuggy
Current PB-- 28.5 mph,... MAN THAT'S FAST!!!
JWC-- Founding member and self appointed president

Allow yourself to be moved by that which cannot be seen.

She blogs about scrapbooking,... what a nerd.
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-24-2016 at 01:53 PM


Shortly available in a 9.5m. Pic here: LongStar 2 9.5m



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Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
My Music is available here: http://www.soundclick.com/members/default.cfm?member=jbholga...
And here: http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnHolgate
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 12-27-2016 at 03:52 AM


And some video of the 9.5m in action in 5 knots of wind.





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Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
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Mood: Feelin' oh so (single) skinny and Sysmic!

[*] posted on 12-27-2016 at 06:54 AM


Nice new video with those endouring sweet tunes! I like Kristen's jump to a freeze frame 3/4ths through. Ah yes, the kite... looks stable and smooth in the light winds. Most interested to hear and see its performance as a buggy engine. :)



Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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