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Author: Subject: How to pack up 3 line trainer kite.
OffAxis


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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 01:22 PM
How to pack up 3 line trainer kite.


I've been using a HQ Rush Pro 350 for 6 months now and I love kiting. I was able to get out snowkiting for the first time last weekend in some heavy winds and need some help for my safety sake.

When flying by yourself in 20mph(heavy) winds and you want to finish your session, how do you land the kite and pack it up? What is the safest way to keep the kite grounded and not making it a tangled mess?

I'm looking for adivce as it applies to foils (in my case 3 line trainers), assuming that the process will differ slightly from LEI.

Some background of how I got here:

I was out last weekend and was dead tired after 2hrs of snowkiting. I didn't expect landing and packing the kite would be such a problem because I was just going to call my wife and have her help me land the kite. Then she didn't answer her phone and the winds started to intensify. I got my self into a corner of the field near a building and powerlines down wind.

After many failed attempts to get ahold of help, the only thing I could think of is climb the brake line hand over hand. I kept the safety leash attached and began climbing the line. The kite was whipping around and became a tangled mess until I got to the canopy. Once I got to the canopy, it was a ball of string and fabric that took over an hour to untangle.

In the end, I wasn't injured but it was a huge lesson in being prepared for situations that will come up when flying. Hence why i'm asking those who are more experienced.

I probably would have learned this lesson earlier if it wasn't for my family being with me flying at the beach in this video:


Thanks Everyone!




PL Venom II 16m, HQ Apex III 7.5m, Pansh Flux 2m & 4m
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With much blessing comes great responsibility.

Snowkiting: The time of the year when the landscape around me turns into a huge playground.
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Randy


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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 02:13 PM


Spencer (soliver) had a very good video (vimeo) about how to do just that.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=27822#pid26...




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ssayre




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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 03:21 PM


Quote: Originally posted by OffAxis  


I was just going to call my wife and have her help me land the kite. Then she didn't answer her phone


Haha, this is adorable. You have much to learn about kiting and otherwise ;) I'm pretty sure 99% of us that are married do not have wives that are willing participants. It's important to learn how to launch / land on your own and get a routine down.

I've not flown a 3 line trainer so I'll let someone else answer this.

Welcome to the crowd.
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 03:34 PM


cant you just stake out the 3rd line and hope it doesnt get too angry while your going after it?...gloves help for sure
B - when in trouble look for a post, garbage pail, tree, wall or the like and ease the kite back on to it till it's folded up
if you can pull out your phone...your a better flyer than me, so you pbly shouldn't listen to me...jusayin




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OffAxis


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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 04:05 PM


I guess the trick is to ground stake the brake lines. Guess i need to get/make one of those. I was able to make a phone call because I was the ground stake.

I got the winding and packing the kite process down pretty well but did get some pointers to doing it better. I just wasn't sure how to get from the control bar to the canopy with out the kite getting "angry."

Do I carry the ground stake with me while flying if I'm not packing up where I started?




PL Venom II 16m, HQ Apex III 7.5m, Pansh Flux 2m & 4m
MBS Sol 16 ATB, Kite Trike
Blake - US35

With much blessing comes great responsibility.

Snowkiting: The time of the year when the landscape around me turns into a huge playground.
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 07:25 PM


If you carry a stake w/ you...make sure you don't regret carring a stake w/ you
I prefer leaaving it in the ground and getting back to where I started...its safer




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Lobster Foil/ 3.5m Bullet/ 4m Buster/ 4m RMSD 2 line Special/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ MBS Core 8&16/ Flexboard Haise/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot
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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 07:55 PM



In some cases of FROZEN GROUND you will not be able place the stake...... unless you have a mallet to pound stake into the frozen ground.

Emergency landing means if your stake is set where you started...you won't be using it.....Unless you're nearby..which is
why many carry stake on body, on buggy..


So without a stake:

It would be a good idea to learn how to wind line around bar after landing that keeps brake 'active'. Basically that's wrapping 12-18" of brake line around bar, then grab other 2 lines and continue wrapping all 3 as you walk toward your kite. Lines will be taut and kite and line will have some power ,but should be manageable til you get to kite to wrap it up.



..

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ssayre




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[*] posted on 2-23-2016 at 08:03 PM


I don't know where my ground stake is and haven't used it forever. I use whatever is near or handy. If nothing than i land at side of window.

Frozen lake would be different story but I don't have those.
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 03:44 AM


I am most certainly feeling your pain brotha. Ending a high wind session alone is one of the things I have struggled with at times, be it on snow, grass, or the Ivanpah playa. As with the others writing before me on this thread I don't have experience with three line trainers either.

Had to chuckle about calling the wife. Just don't go there :alien:

A couple of things. First, you need to develop a system of creating an anchor to secure the bar so you can get to the kite. If you are on ice you are going to need an ice screw. If in deeper snow you can carry a lashing strap and bury your skis to anchor to. Or better yet, carry a Snow Claw. Check things out here: http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/ice-screws-meters-leashes.html

Second, consider a kite upgrade. Yes, this is the nuclear option and I'm sorry to suggest it, knowing only too well what sort of money is involved. Assuming you still have a relationship with that wife of yours as it relates to kiting you might consider getting a 4-6m Ozone Access V6. This is a WONDERFULLY stable kite in high winds and has a feature known as Re-Ride that essentially is a 5th line that goes INSIDE the kite. When you want to end your session all you have to do is pull the 5th line out from inside the chicken loop and the kite will collapse like an accordion with no angry flopping on the ground. You don't even need a means of anchor because you just wind up your lines pulling the kite towards you lifeless on the snow or ice. You can buy one here: http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/ozone-access-v6.html

I'm hoping somebody else chimes in with a video or a great explanation on how to pull off a solo high wind wrapup when you don't have anything to brace the kite against. My solution was to buy re-ride snow kites but I know that is a hard way to go.





Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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OffAxis


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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 05:36 AM


Landing at the edge of the window in higher winds has never worked, for me anyway. The kite collapses and then tumbles/slides to the 12 o'clock position.

I'll have to give this a try: It would be a good idea to learn how to wind line around bar after landing that keeps brake 'active'. Basically that's wrapping 12-18" of brake line around bar, then grab other 2 lines and continue wrapping all 3 as you walk toward your kite. Lines will be taut and kite and line will have some power ,but should be manageable til you get to kite to wrap it up.

I would like to get a larger kite becuase it's not often that we have 20mph steady winds here in central PA. I'll have to balance the hobby funds between kiting and r/c airplanes. I fly when its windy and fly when its calm.

Whats a good size snow kite for 6-10mph winds? I'm 5'10" 175lbs




PL Venom II 16m, HQ Apex III 7.5m, Pansh Flux 2m & 4m
MBS Sol 16 ATB, Kite Trike
Blake - US35

With much blessing comes great responsibility.

Snowkiting: The time of the year when the landscape around me turns into a huge playground.
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 06:16 AM


once you start winding lines around bars or handles you are fully committed to the act till its finished...im not a fan
i never used a ground stake when i started but seem to use one all the time now




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Lobster Foil/ 3.5m Bullet/ 4m Buster/ 4m RMSD 2 line Special/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ MBS Core 8&16/ Flexboard Haise/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot
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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 07:50 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

Had to chuckle about calling the wife. Just don't go there :alien:



It's not too uncommon. Steve, I think you mentioned sometime ago that you had your wife come out and fasten your chin strap and buckle your harness :P
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 02:43 PM


Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

Had to chuckle about calling the wife. Just don't go there :alien:



It's not too uncommon. Steve, I think you mentioned sometime ago that you had your wife come out and fasten your chin strap and buckle your harness :P


Sorry Sean, your memory failed you. She brought me lunch then relieved my pressure. :frog:




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 03:01 PM


Quote: Originally posted by OffAxis  
Whats a good size snow kite for 6-10mph winds? I'm 5'10" 175lbs


As you likely know, different kites have different "projected area" that may be more relevant that how big a kite is as measured simply by square meters. A big kite that is radically "C" shaped under tension can end up projecting less kite for the wind to work against than a smaller kite that holds its shape more flatly in the air.

Another nice complication is the surface conditions. Glare ice offers little resistance so you can get away with a smaller kite in the 6-10 mph range you noted. Deeper heavy snow or a wind crust to break through really bogs the skis down and will necessitate having a large kite in the air to get moving with any real speed.

So... 6-12 mph would probably mean 12m kites and up in my opinion. There are folks on this forum with much more experience than me that could well answer this question. One person I turn to on PKF is Chris Kruge (fewd). Chris operates a Snowkiting school in New Hampshire called Hardwater. You might want to reach out to him.




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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SWATK Member UT00003
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 07:18 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

Had to chuckle about calling the wife. Just don't go there :alien:



It's not too uncommon. Steve, I think you mentioned sometime ago that you had your wife come out and fasten your chin strap and buckle your harness :P


Sorry Sean, your memory failed you. She brought me lunch then relieved my pressure. :frog:


Whoa Steve, your right my memory must have failed me. :smilegrin:
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 2-24-2016 at 07:54 PM


:evil:



Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT00003
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soliver




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[*] posted on 2-25-2016 at 07:36 AM


A couple of things to mention here...

1. Thanks Randy for the props on my packing video... much appreciated.

2. watching your video, I saw you jumping with that Rush Pro 350... not trying to bust your chops, but that is a REALLY bad idea. The smallest kite people recommend jumping is a 5m, and even that is risky... As Weldngod likes to say "its a really good way to see the inside of your femur." You have to have a big enough wing to carry you down after it picks you up... A small kite like a 3m or 4m can pick you up and drop you like a stone... you probably noticed how hard you landed with that kite. I know the the HQ guys have a video of Chris jumping a RushPro, but still... bad idea. I suffered the consequences of a lofting by a 5m and trust me, its not worth it. Broken foot, $3000 surgery, 6 months recovery... trust me it sucks.

3. On the Kite stake question... Some people say its a bad idea to keep the kite stake on your person, others don't have a problem with it. The issue comes when its either clipped to your shorts or in your pocket and you fall on the big golfball sized head of the thing and end up looking like you've been creamed with a baseball bat. If you carry the backpack that came with the kite and keep the stake in there you'll be fine. I still clip mine in the sheath to a belt loop and have never fallen on it. Or I keep it attached to the buggy somewhere. I think its best to alway have it on me, because there are times when I end up too far from my starting point (or from my buggy) and needing the stake.

4. On kite size... Big wind = small kite, small wind = big kite. If you regularly have winds in the 20 mph range you don't want to go any bigger that the kite you already have IMHO... there are those who will fly 8m kites in 20+ mph wind, but they are pro's who do crazy buggy jumps (see the Abervon Sand Pirates on youtube). If you regularly get that kind of wind, consider a different STYLE of kite. Maybe a more advanced kite, or even an NPW,... or better yet get a buggy or a board!

Hope that helps!




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[*] posted on 2-25-2016 at 08:35 AM


I agree that not only is jumping wrong with a small kite but ALSO how you were going about jumping.

To jump properly you must learn to RE-direct the kite and keep it overhead. Even when you can do that without looking at the kite a small kite has to be kept moving fast or you will lose all lift.

You want to learn to connect your power strokes to continue scudding down wind with that kite. Bring the kite back around and in the power zone before it flies too far to the edge. You can also combine that with a power loops.

I would suggest a helmet even on the beach.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

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OffAxis


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[*] posted on 2-25-2016 at 01:23 PM


Thanks for the tips soliver and Bladerunner! I do want to stay out of the hospital. I hate doctors.

I've been reading a lot about jumping horror stories and have no intention to continue to jump with that small of a kite. I learned a lot about kiting in that outting. That video footage was the first time I ever flew in that high of winds and I was trying to be pretty cautious about flying in those conditions. I think I only had ~1 month flying experience at the time as well. The conditions were even rare for OCNJ becuase it was late fall and a hurricane was off shore kicking up the winds.

The usual wind conditions in central PA are 10 or less mph. So i will be catering my quiver around that.

I need to get a helmet..




PL Venom II 16m, HQ Apex III 7.5m, Pansh Flux 2m & 4m
MBS Sol 16 ATB, Kite Trike
Blake - US35

With much blessing comes great responsibility.

Snowkiting: The time of the year when the landscape around me turns into a huge playground.
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