New condition 05 Access in sunset colors. $195 free shipping in the U.S. Any depower bar shoul;d work with 4 lines.

Does this kite work with the 2 bars? instead of the bar aswell?

If you a referring to handles the answer is no. This is a bar dedicated depower kite that uses a trim system and bar. Kites with handles (two small bars) are fixed bridle kites, no depower, no trim system.

This is a great entry level/touring kite. In the 3m size it is a very good high wind kite.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

If you a referring to handles the answer is no. This is a bar dedicated depower kite that uses a trim system and bar. Kites with handles (two small bars) are fixed bridle kites, no depower, no trim system. This is a great entry level/touring kite. In the 3m size it is a very good high wind kite.

Hmm, not sure I completely agree. You can fly a depower off handles but you cannot use kite killers and fine tuning the back line tension and handle length is critical.

The short answer is no but the real answer is it's possible and sometimes fun.

Look up the difference in depower kites versus fixed bridle. Depower uses a mixer system to alter the angle of attack when brakes applied. Fixed bridle just tucks the bottom edge in and deforms the wing when brakes applied.

you dont need this yet...but buy it anyway, great colors

Well eventually I know I want an Access kite was seeing some videos on it. I want to do snowboarding with a kite and sand boarding.
Since the other kite I bought comes with handles I figured if I could put them on this one for a while it would be great till I get a bar.

no this is kinda a super wind kite...you wont be out in those conditions for a while
but wtf you can buy it anyway...your first dp will be more like a 7-10m depending on things
imo

Quote: Originally posted by lceliz

Well eventually I know I want an Access kite was seeing some videos on it. I want to do snowboarding with a kite and sand boarding. Since the other kite I bought comes with handles I figured if I could put them on this one for a while it would be great till I get a bar.

Hmmm..... Sand Boarding with a 3m DP. Should get fun once the wind gets over 40 mph....

Honestly, really think hard about when you would use a 3m DP for motive power, especially if what you want to do involves a fair amount of friction to slide, like sand boarding. The higher the friction to move the more kite you need up in the air to get going and keep going. Please don't get me wrong, I love the Access kite (I own a 6m and want to also own a 4m) and really like them for Snowkiting. I want the 4m for when I'm too scared to launch the 6m. It has to be howling for me not to dare launch the 6m and I'm talking Snowkiting which offers much less sliding friction compared to sand boarding (I'm assuming here that sand boarding would be something akin to snowboarding on sand). A 3m Access would unlikely provide sufficient power to overcome the friction of the sand until the wind is practically gale force.

This kite was sold in February.
No more "too much wind" days for me :wee:

BTW: I received it crispy-new.
Also snagged a bar from BeamerBob.
Both were shipped faster than I expected and exactly as described. Thanks guys!

nice score Howard, would love to try it...or have the need to

Iceliz, it works like this : Fixed bridle Ram Air Parafoil = Are highly efficient at making power. In fact they are all power all the time, you control the amount of power by how and where in the wind window you fly it. If you do the wrong thing at the wrong time, something bad may happen ,or your skills may allow you to fly it out. De-power on the other hand are not as efficient at making power, this is why they are so large compared to foils (there are some exceptions to this like DP closed cell foils) . The DPs change the AOA of the kite to make it get more/less bite in the wind . Think of it as a gas pedal in a car, pull on the bar generate power, let it out it goes away. But the kites are specific in design ,they aren't interchangeable.

So would this kite style be good for like a buggy Vs a snowboard?

It should work for either when the conditions are nuts out 20-30+knots. I was out snow kiting with my HQ Rush Pro 350 3.5m in 15-20mph winds and it made me nervous. I can't imagine what 30mph looks/feels like.

As a beginner, steady wind speeds from 0-15mph are you friend. Find kites that will accomplish what you want to do in those wind ranges to start. I got my HQ Apex 7.5m becuase I want to snowkite in wind speeds in the low teens. As a gain more experience, I will push it more towards 20mph.

I flew the 1.8 in 26 to 32 there was a storm coming from the coast to the desert with rain clouds it was so much fun. It pulled me for a short time but would have it go back to the 12 o clock position when I need to relax since the kite would stay with less power there. It was a fun experience flying it at that speed made it turn faster and respond quicker.

You can't compare that 1.8 to any of the kites we are talking about. It taught you a tiny lil bit about what these kites are going to do. It's apples and oranges. You are going to be surprised at the power just a 3m beginner foil will generate. Learn all you can from it ,then try something larger or higher AR or even a DP. But ,you could get spanked and say screw it. So I wouldn't buy a bunch of gear yet. You need to figure out the whats and wheres.

Yeah I'm aware that there is more surface area which will provide more lift or pull. I'll just take it slow till I get a 3m

Quote: Originally posted by lceliz

So would this kite style be good for like a buggy Vs a snowboard?

This is sort of a personal preference issue, particularly for buggying. For snowkiting it seems most folks have gravitated towards some sort of DP set up. For me personally, I prefer DP for both buggying and snowkiting. I'm in my mid-50s and really am crash adverse at this point and DP gives me the sort of control I'm looking for to scrub power when I want to.

Some of this depends on where you intend to get moving. If you are relegated to soccer fields and the likes you have to be aware of non-movable obstacles such as goal posts, lights, bleachers, etc. It will absolutely wreck your day or worse if you slam into those sorts of things moving at the kind of speeds that are easily generated in these activities. I was flying FB last year and a gust dragged me sideways into a large soccer goal post. I was luck to get out of that one with just some serious cuts, bruises, and ego blunting. It could have been way, way worse.

DP isn't going to eliminate all risks but it will allow you under control to really scrub power when your sphincter is puckering (like mine does a lot).

Good luck with all this. And yes, respect the 3m FB. That's plenty enough kite to thrash you with the right combination of wind and pilot error.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd   If you a referring to handles the answer is no. This is a bar dedicated depower kite that uses a trim system and bar. Kites with handles (two small bars) are fixed bridle kites, no depower, no trim system. This is a great entry level/touring kite. In the 3m size it is a very good high wind kite. Hmm, not sure I completely agree. You can fly a depower off handles but you cannot use kite killers and fine tuning the back line tension and handle length is critical. The short answer is no but the real answer is it's possible and sometimes fun. Look up the difference in depower kites versus fixed bridle. Depower uses a mixer system to alter the angle of attack when brakes applied. Fixed bridle just tucks the bottom edge in and deforms the wing when brakes applied.

Admittedly, some kites, like the Peak, can be flown on handles TO SOME EXTENT but it will not (the Peak included) provide the performance that the kind is capable of or intended. To the best of my knowledge the only kite brought to market with either a handle or depower bar option was the F-arc. And only because the F-arc depower was pretty minimal if at all.

In terms of the debate between depower and fixed bridle. The vast majority of land based kiters especially the older crowd (no offense) are by and large dedicated to fixed bridles. The exceptions tend to be riders who live in gusty areas but very few buggy drivers in this forum, until recently, have started to delve into depowers.

For snow kiting very few people ride fixed bridle. Unless they live somewhere that has minimal gust factor and fairly consistent surface conditions. (Meaning not a mix of fast firm then deep pow).

Ozone has abandoned fixed bridles. HQ now offers a 3m trainer that is fully depower. FLYSUFRER is making 2.5m depower trainers. There's a reason I suspect.

If you live in a place with crazy steady winds and consistent surface, having depower isn't going to be much benefit. Beyond the economics of a depower covering 2-3 X the wind range of a fixed bridle. But very few of us live in those areas.fwiw

Well at some point I plan to go to Mammoth in California so not sure what the wind conditions are out there since I never gone but thats where a lot of people head out too in the winter season. Any way to know what the wind conditions are at a place that is reliable?

Local intel is always the best bet. Speaking to people who live and ride there. Or at least live there. This forum may have some members that have ridden there and can offer some insight. If you can't find kiters the next best option is ice fishing forums.

Google Earth is a helpful tool as well if you have a solid understanding of how wind works and interacts with topography. When I go somewhere new I scout it on Google Earth to see what might work or not in a given wind direction. It's not perfect but it helps a lot.

If you are going somewhere new monitor the weather stations at or near your target. Note the consistency of conditions over time. This will also give you some idea what to expect.

At the end of the day the bottom line is "you don't know if you don't go" and you sometimes just need to risk either getting skunked, getting nuked or having primo wind and garbage surface. That's the name of the game in kiting. But more often than not thins work out and you get some kind of session in and no matter what, you learn something. And the more you learn the easier it all gets.

There's no substitute for experience.

Ice fishing forums do not work on the west seaboard, especially Cali. Our lakes rarely freeze hard enough to fish on. I would say s 3m is probably not going to have the grunt for the snow conditions in the mammoth area unless the winds are really cranking. Keep in mind Alpine winds are indeed thinner and therefore generate less pull than lower elevation winds. I fly a size bigger foil on my local mountains than I would an lei on the coast

I suppose the exception of the ice fishing forum might be Alaska or parts of Canada but ice fishing isn't really a thing in Oregon, Washington, California.

HA! Sorry, spaced that we were talking California. :P

So the 5 meter would do fine at mammoth then to pull me up the mountain? Considering there is an up wind? I asked a Co worker how the winds where when she went and she said there was no strong wind but no idea the speed.

You will need STRONG wind to get pulled uphill with 5m of DP sail I'm afraid. 5m DP is still considered a high wind kite. If winds are "steady and brisk" but not howling I suspect you'd want at least 8-9m of kite. I've never been kiting in Mammoth but I do live in the UT mountains and snowlike at altitude somewhat similar to where you are talking.

There are guys here on PKF that do a lot of snowkiting in CO. They may be able to comment.

I'd be shocked if theirs kiting on Mammoth...is this confirmed?

They dont allow kitting in Mammoth? Well there goes that idea if they dont.

Quick search on YouTube found this:

That seems more like near, or by Mammoth
Not that I know...but that's not a Mt. for sure
Steve do they let you fly anywhere on trail in Ut.?
Ive been wondering about this in the US in general

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

That seems more like near, or by Mammoth Not that I know...but that's not a Mt. for sure Steve do they let you fly anywhere on trail in Ut.? Ive been wondering about this in the US in general

I am far from an authority on all things UT, but I would say no. The Snowkiting in UT takes place in some vast open spaces but not in bounds at any ski resort that I am aware of. Folks do Snowkite in an area that is sort of off the back side of Deer Valley but it is far from in bounds. Folks that kite there in the winter either skin in or come in by snowmobile and then ski.

This makes sense really in the same way as in general folks don't kiteboard where folks free swim. In bounds skiing and Snowkiting just wouldn't mix at all.