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Author: Subject: Advice wanted: Jump Kite
Lewyh




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 02:48 PM
Advice wanted: Jump Kite


Hi guys,

I've just moved to Wellington, NZ and decided to get back into powerkiting. I've not bought a kite in years, and used to own a 4m Blade 3 some years ago. After finding out how windy this city is, I find myself craving my old kite (broken and thrown out by my ex and never replaced. Well, the ex was replaced!).

So... I'm after some advice about what kite to buy. I'm looking for something with lots of lift that's safe to use in strong winds. I just want to use the kite for doing jumps on land. I appreciate any advice about brands, models and size recommendations!

Thanks.
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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 03:06 PM


High wind jumping is scary. Big kites give better glide, small kites are the ones that drop you out of the sky. Which of course are what you want in high winds not to be overpowered.

My 2 cents




Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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Lewyh




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 03:42 PM


Ooooh fast reply, thanks!

Not sure if I'd have the balls to fly a big kite in any wind, I was more wondering if anyone could recommend a 2-4m kite that's got good lift... Though aren't most kites under 4m designed for beginners, rather than for lift?
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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 04:00 PM


Nah there are plenty of advanced kites ment for buggies. The danger is that even a 2m can loft you in the right wind, but they will drop you like they're not even there. Blades got the widowmaker reputation because of that, 4.9m especially lifted you up 15 feet then dropped you. Perhaps you could further define high wind?



Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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Lewyh




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 05:06 PM


I'm not in a buggy, just on foot and hopefully in the air a bit.

I've been doing some research and am interested in a Peter Lynn Voltage, but I'm now worries that 4m would be too big for Wellington winds (it really is a windy city, you can't underestimate!), but worried that 3m would drop me too fast coming down.
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Lewyh




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 05:08 PM


Regarding the wind, its light today which is about 40kph...
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gemini6kl


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 05:31 PM


I think one of the things tht makes small foils dangerous in high winds is the fact that they can be unstable and even collapse on a jump, try a small 3m closed cell foil or better yet an arc if you want something a little more safe. but like everyone said no small kite is safe in strong winds but a closed cell foil is a lot safer. I used to use a 3m blade III for jumping in strong winds on sand at the beach and liked it but I knew my limits and would not take it in silly winds as being yanked up and dropped very fast is not fun.
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nate76




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 06:16 PM


Kind of what I've found in my not-entirely-extensive kiting experience is this: the smaller the kite, the pop-ier the kite; the bigger the kite, the floaty-ier the kite. Meaning that a small kite will have more pop and perhaps even more height, but it will also typically bring you down faster. With a bigger kite, you tend to launch more gentle but also land more gentle.

With my 18m Matrixx2, I don't tend to get very high (some of that admittedly is just my lack of ability), but the glides just seem to go on and on. And the landings are super soft. Which I love. I'm getting too old for hard landings.

But to each his own. That's one thing I love about this sport, is that there are so many ways to enjoy it.




Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils.
http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Shaman, HQ4 Matrixx/Montana
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Demoknight


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 06:19 PM


19m Flysurfer Speed 3 Deluxe. I have gotten static jumps around 20ft and hangtime of close to 10 seconds static as well. Don't jump on small kites. Bare minimum I would even suggest is an 8m+ fixed bridle. Otherwise, get yourself a 10+ depower and enjoy the easymode huge air.



NAPKA US8008

Kites:

Flysurfer Speed 3 Deluxe 19m
Peter Lynn Charger 2 12m
Peter Lynn 2013 Reactor 5.5m
Peter Lynn 2013 Reactor 8.6m
Prism Tensor 5.0m

Ride:
Weird Beard VTT Custom
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 06:59 PM


Wait for it...... wait.... Jumping is the fastest ,easiest way to see the INSIDE of your femur.....




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Brooza IV 3.0 prototype
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3 (lost at sea)
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:00 PM


I give you this video, as a proof of exactly what can happen (there was pilot error involved in this too, his redirect doesn't appear every happened, but you get the idea)




Any questions?




Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:01 PM


I rest my case...




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Brooza IV 3.0 prototype
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3 (lost at sea)
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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Lewyh




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:13 PM


OK thanks for all the great advice. It's sounding like I shouldn't be using a kite here because using an 8m plus kite seems like suicide. :(
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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:21 PM


I'm on the topic now so here's another one:



Not quite the same finish the first one had... I always love that the cameras stop filming right after the landing. Problem is, if the kite is still airborne you may not be done getting pulled. If you're smart on FB you let go, or on depower you pulled your safety... Hard to be smart when the ground is rushing up to meet you. I had a 1.2m kite loft me once, line broke when i hit the ground and the kite went into a death spiral. It's what got me into kiting, but i was real lucky there wasn't anything in my way. That was in 35-40 mph winds.




Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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Feyd


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:22 PM


Small kites are not for jumping. Not over solid ground at least.

Demo is right, no smaller than an 8m FB or even depow.

FWIW IMO if you aren't experienced or confident enough to simply fly an 8m, jumping is probably not going to treat you well. :P




Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, HQ and GIN kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 518-407-KITE
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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:30 PM


I'd like to make a suggestion however, rather than just not kiting at all why not just give up on the jumping aspect. If you're lucky enough to have STABLE winds there are plenty of kites that you could have a lot of fun with. Just try to keep your feet on the ground. Maybe get a small depow (like a 3.5m or 5.5m apex, or 4, 6 access) and dink around with that or a small fixed bridle, then get yourself a mountain board and have even more fun! 40 kph are below what most people around here would say is to fast to fly in. I think alot of people limit themselves around 50kph. That being said, STABLE winds are key. Gusts suck.



Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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Lewyh




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:50 PM


I'll have a think about maybe buying a 4m Peter Lynn Voltage for days when its quieter. My old blade 3 was 4m and that was OK for jumps. Maybe it'll be fine, otherwise I can just have a blast around or buy a mountain board...
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smallies




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:52 PM


There's a big fat hill between 2 ponds here in Mass and I need to jump them don't need femur. There's even a hung up pine tree to launch from at the top. Can't spend much cause trees will kill it. Guess a northeast wind would be first to try. Jet stream touched down here one winter. We had 100mph on an innocuous winter day. http://www.google.com/maps/@41.7591778,-70.0160064,16z
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smallies




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 07:57 PM


Here's so pics of the neighborhood http://www.wunderground.com/wximage/myphotos.html
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yeti


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 08:00 PM


In my limited experience, the smaller the kite, the faster you need to be going to avoid an unexpected hard landing. Seems somewhat counter-intuitive at first, but your forward motion stays relatively constant, so if you hit a hole in the wind, you only lose some of your lift, not all of it at once.

Definitely safer static flying with a bigger kite as the previous replies have said. LEIs down to about 8m also seem to work well for static flying/jumping.
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 08:19 PM


MotoFoo Gives the advice I would.

Get back into flying with an appropriate small kite. Don't stress so much about jumping until you are familiar with your new area. Once you have a feel for the winds you will be in a much better position to decide if and what you will want to use to get airborne. AND land safely !!!!

It is not impossible to jump and land softly with a smaller kite but it DEMANDS perfect timing and control once in the air in order to keep lift in a small canopy + strong steady wind. NOT something that comes naturally!

When jumping with a larger canopy the kite is slower and offers lift without having to see " apparent wind " . I find the slower kite easier to keep overhead and avoid over shooting / looping. In old Flysurfer manuals they said if lofted to relax and realize you are now under a paraglider. They could say that because they only built kites 7m and larger and did so to paraglider standards.

So .... don't give up on the wind. Get a good high wind kite and start resetting those reflex memories. Do so while assessing your new location and deciding for yourself what type of kite will allow you to jump ( and land ) safely . If your location ends up very gusty with strong winds I suggest you reconsider the location? Consider going to a depower kite. You can fly a larger canopy in the same wind compared to FB + when fully powered you need only to set the kite and pull in the bar to go up! :D

Avoid standing around with even a small kite overhead in strong winds. Keep it off to one side.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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smallies




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 08:35 PM


This one? I think I will be going in the water. I need maybe 150 feet glide. http://www.amazon.com/Prism-Kites-Tensor-Power-Kite/dp/B003A...
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 08:44 PM


I second all advice. i would add that if jumping is the goal the. I would start witb name brand 3m type kite bought second hand and gain skill and knowledge of your winds but not jump. Then research and buy a proper depower. Nz has kiters and you could seek out if anyone is close and try seek advice for what works for them. Getting advice from people that are in the same place or have same conditions is usually beneficial.
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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 08:48 PM


Smallies, you need to seriously think about what you're doing. Right now everything you've said makes me think that your plan is highly ill advised. I certainly would not try to glide 150 feet on a prism tensor. They are ment as a beginner powerkite, 4.2m is far to small to really glide on anyhow. Also the gps coordinates lead me to a heavily tree'd area, that leaves a lot of things that could possibly snag a line. As far as the wind speed i give you this video as proof of what happens when you fly massively overpowered which you would be anywhere near 100mph winds. I don't know any experienced kiter that will fly above 35-40 mph without SERIOUS safety considerations.



If you're seriously considering doing this (which i don't advise) please please please do alot more research and alot of training with appropriate kites before attempting. Also, it's a serious consideration that you're trying to do this on the cheap when the kites that will actually allow you to do this are anything but cheap. If you must do this, you're absolutely going to want a larger depower foil, they provide you with he safest methods of lift and glide. Again, not cheap

Please consider that if you get severely hurt/killed or hurt someone else in the process it will hurt everyone in the kiting community. We are a small group of people, and spots, and privileges are to easily taken away when people do especially stupid things.




Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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BEC


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 09:04 PM


This is not intended to be mean at all.....

Here is what I would tell anyone who is asking how to jump......IF you need to ask how to do it....then you shouldn't be doing it. When you have enough experience you don't need to know what size kite to jump with.....when you are experienced enough you will have this skill set to do it and an appreciation for it.

I've jumped with a 1.8 m kite and I've jumped with an 8m blade....those things can seriously mess you up. I don't think sitting in a wheel chair for the rest of your life for 3 seconds of fun is worth it. I can't even begin to tell you how scary just 15 feet off the ground is....feels like 50.

Have fun flying static , wear a helmet and in due time you will learn how to jump all on your own.




1.8 Flexifoil Rage
2.5 Flexifoil Rage (new version)
3.5 Flexifoil Rage
4.7 Flexifoil Rage
2.0 Flexifoil Blade II
4.0 Flexifoil Blade II
6.6 Flexifoil Blade III
8.5 Flexifoil Blade III
5.0 Flexifoil Blurr
7.0 Flexifoil Bullet


NAPKA member US822
SS. Flexifoil buggy w/ both wide and std. axle Custom VTT seat

Running both Bigfoot -N- barrows
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 09:21 PM


Quote: Originally posted by MotoFoo86  
I don't know any experienced kiter that will fly above 35-40 mph without SERIOUS safety considerations.

I would,w/ a 1.5 Buster soulfly.And I always wear impact protection.


If you're seriously considering doing this (which i don't advise) please please please do alot more research and alot of training with appropriate kites before attempting. Also, it's a serious consideration that you're trying to do this on the cheap when the kites that will actually allow you to do this are anything but cheap. If you must do this, you're absolutely going to want a larger depower foil, they provide you with he safest methods of lift and glide. Again, not cheap

Please consider that if you get severely hurt/killed or hurt someone else in the process it will hurt everyone in the kiting community. We are a small group of people, and spots, and privileges are to easily taken away when people do especially stupid things.




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Brooza IV 3.0 prototype
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3 (lost at sea)
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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MotoFoo86


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 09:27 PM


Weldngod is obviously enjoying my taste in videos.



Kites:
Rush V Pro 350
Ozone access v7 4m
Apex IV 5.5m with FDS system to
Montana VII 7m with FLS system
Montana VIII 10m, 14m with FLS system
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI
07 Ozone Frenzy 7.5m

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Flexifoil buggy - Standard and Wide Axles, Midis, Bigfoot custom fork
Libre full race stainless
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 09:33 PM


The big lesson from that old video is " Don't be Kiter Kevin " ! :crazy:

This guy caused even greater damage to our reputation with his attitude AFTER this stunt.

You will be out there representing all of us! We have lost access and public respect in too many locations. Please keep that in mind.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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volock




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 09:50 PM


Quote: Originally posted by BEC  
I've jumped with a 1.8 m kite


And here I thought my accidental air in a buggy with a 2.2m PKD Buster Soulfly was impressive/scary (while in a 75lb buggy). I can't imagine being on something even small, and that was only a few inches/maybe a foot.

Smallies, your statements terrify me. There's definitely a progression to kiting, and starting out trying to jump is why we nickname certain models widowmakers. Trees make flying harder from turbulence, even for the experienced, ignoring trying to jump. The Prism is an underated good first kite, but not for jumping or water. I like my tensor, but it's a freight train with no lift, and isn't water relaunchable. Given where you are tons of people to learn from and go out with. Why not try to find some locals to learn from and do it the right way?




NAPKA US314 (Pi)

Stunt Kites: GoFlyAKite Parastunter 1.4m | Pacific Quest Mighty Bug 0.5m and 1.0m | Prism Flip Kite
Arcs: Peter Lynn Venom 19m
Depower Foils: Flysurfer Peak 12m, Peter Lynn Lynx (2015) 5m, 9m
FB Foils: HQ Beamer II 3.6m | Ozone LittleDevil 4.5m | Pansh Ace 5m, 7m | PKD Busta Soulfly 1.5m, 2.4m, Brooza II 7.5m | Prism Tensor 5m | Thunderwing Parawings Set
LEIs: Cabrinha Convert SE 9m | Ocean Rodeo Prodigy 14.0m, Razor 12m, Storm 5.0m

Atomic Terrain Park Skis (w AT adapters for the wind dieing), Snowboard, 21" Isvidda Nordic Skates (NNN-BC and NIS bindings depending on the pair),
Badfisher 11' SUP, Ocean Rodeo JT Pro 138cm
Landyachtz DH Race (Bear 852 Trucks), MBS Comp 95X
RB Swindler, Skorpion Skates
Sysmic S2 Dune Midi XL Buggy
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smallies




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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 10:47 PM


Thanks guys. I think my optimism regarding trees would be greatly lessened actually being there.. I think kites are only allowed 2 months a year at the National Seashore in the fall. That includes all the crazy cliff beaches. Water is pretty high at the pond lately but that side is shallow. Getting into Little Cliff would be a good one. Save that for the experts.
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