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Power Kite Forum » Kites and Gear » Kite Reviews » HQ Montana VIII 10m

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MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-20-2015 at 05:16 PM

HQ Montana VIII 10m

I'm sure this kite has been reviewed on here before, but all the same i thought i'd throw my own take on it as I learn this new kite! Stay tuned.

The short story, I've been tractioning for about 10 years on and off, always with fixed bridles. Somehow the "two kites for the same price" logic always won in my head... Till now. I did have some time to play with a 09ish Frenzy 9m. So i'm using that in addition to my experiences with my FB's to judge. Take it with a grain of salt i suppose.

If any of you have been cyber stalking me you may have noticed that i sold off my whole quiver through various sources here being one of them. It was heartbreaking, but it financed both the purchase of this kite, and a Montana VIII 14m (that one is still on the way, i will add it on to here once it arrives).

As the new line of Montana IX's are about to drop HQ is selling off some of it's VIII demo's. Of which this 10 is. Flown by their "pro" team, so you know it's seem some action. For all i know BeamerBob may have had his hands on this very foil not so very long ago.

It's last user obviously flew it at the beach, as it was fairly laden with sand. No worries.

First Impressions:

New chickenloop is intereresting, however it is already showing some signs of slop. Although i'm sure it has many years of use yet. Also, no place to attach a safety loop here. Looks like if you deploy this safety kiss your kite goodbye! Maybe i could leash to the reverse lauch/stall strap, dubious of doing so.

Backpack, is large but not huge. Obviously will not house many kites. Nice mesh panels sewn in to let the kite breath. Looks fairly sold, Probably already been tossed around quite a bit, i'm sure it can take a beating.

I love HQ's linesets, they're always pretty. These are no exception.

Bar's padding is stiff, but i think i'll like it.

Pulleys don't look quite as nice as Ronstans, but i'm sure they're high quality nonetheless. No swivel at the end of Y lines, but there's a reason HQ's are cheaper than some of their counterparts.

As is the norm whenever you buy a new kite. There is quite literally 0 gusting to 1 wind outside. Flying will have to wait..... for now!

Kites:
HQ: Rush V Pro 350, Apex IV 5.5m, Montana VII 7m, Montana VIII 10m & 14m
Ozone access XC 4m, access v7 4m, access v6 12m, Frenzy 07 7.5m, Frenzy 9m
FlySurfer Speed 4 Lotus 21m, Speed 4 9m, Unity 6, & 10m, Psycho 3 13m
2010 Best Waroo 5m trainer LEI

GI Patrol 106, skis? yup lots, snowboards? Couple of those too
Libre full race stainless
Libre Hardcore

BeamerBob

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posted on 10-21-2015 at 09:50 AM

Not that me flying it was special but HQ put out an IBX video that showed me and others flying it. Winds were a little too variable and right after the video was clipped I had to pull the safety due to it sliding me sideways towards camp. I reached the limit of my safety margin and pulled the safety ending my trajectory towards parked cars. Love the M8 for sure!

Coastal Wind Sports Team Rider
Landsegler Disc wheels
PTW Hero Buggy - XXtreme ApeXX Buggy US 88 - Libre Hardcore
IvanpahBuggyExpo.com
Youtube link
Bob Muse
HQ Montana X 8m, Montana IX 12m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m,
PL Phantom 12m, 15m, Big Blu 24m+, Synergy 10m, Venom 10m, 13m , Phantom II 12m Vapors 3.8, 5.4, Crosskite Sonic 7m, PKD Combat 10.3m
Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-21-2015 at 03:03 PM

Contacted Robert @ Hq today, asking about bridle mods (they switched the M9 to a mini 5th line and did away with the top hat) wondering if it's backwards compatible. Apparently the M9's haven't made it stateside as of yet, but he's curious as well... More on that when it develops

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 04:06 PM

So, finally, the Wind has come. Lying in bed watching a movie and i happen to glance outside to see the trees swaying in the breeze.... It's on!

Grab my harness, board, kite, stake, and go running out the door.... wait... what am i missing.... OH shoes.

Get to the park, wind sensor is reading a bit low at 6 mph but the trees indicate that there might be more overhead. I figure i'll at least try though, drop the M8 run out the lines. Looks like the kite was packed after a bowtie as the bridle lines are all over the place. Not a big deal, excitement level dropping. Fix the tangles, set it up ready to go, get back to the bar. Pull the depower as to not launch into the unknown on an unknown kite full power. Give the center lines a tug and away she goes! Good story so far right? Here's where everything goes wrong, When i "fixed" the bridle tangles i ended up wrapping the brake lines over the top of the center line putting the kite in the full power all the time fixed bridle setting (oh joy!). On top of that, the depower had popped out of the clamcleat in the process of launching (how i don't know, just know it did).

As the kite starts to get close to the apex, it lifts me and pull me downwind, running on my toes. Not a big deal, another gust, and now i'm running on air only 2-3 feet up though. Reach for the depower rope, miss and hit the top hat. Gravity hurts. In good news the top hat system was more effective than i expected it to be.

Things only got worse from there. Here is where i need you guys! I'm a depower noob, been flying FB my whole life. I'd be perfectly comfortable on a day like today with my 6.5 toxic, but she's long gone. Once i set back up after the safety pop and fixing the bridle wrap here's the biggest problem i experienced. Overflying, i'd launch at a 45, get it up in the air. It'd zip to the apex, give me a little hop and then go right over my head. Taco, wrap in it's lines and down she came.

Some background info, wind sensor had the wind at 6mph gusting to 22mph near where i was. I was launching the kite nearly fully depowered. Launched the kite by pulling on the center lines always at 45 degrees to the wind.

Even in this small and ineffective first flight i did learn some things.
1) This kite puts my Toxic 8m to SHAME in the lift department
2) the depower line is ridiculously long, and was kind of a pain in the ass wrapping around lines when the kite was on the ground, i'm sure once it's airborne this is less of an issue
3) the tophat system deploys very easily, perhaps to easily, however i'd prefer that to a sticky safety system.
4) the kite reverse relaunches very nicely

Input, suggestions, comments all welcome!

ssayre

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 04:22 PM

Not sure I followed exactly what happened and I've never had open cell depower with top hat, but if fully depowered, that's the same thing as lengthening your steering lines and shortening the front lines, thus giving you less steering control without large imput and will overfly very easily without the bar pulled all the way in. I would try launching less depowered. somewhere in the middle perhaps. Just my 2 cents. I'm sure someone with experience on this kite will chime in.

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 04:25 PM

Top hat was kinda outside the point, top hat system pull was due to a rigging error. Good suggestion about the depower system, i was not entirely aware how trimming/sheeting affected overfly.

gemini6kl

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 05:10 PM

The montana VIII 10m is a very nice kite,it has a lot of lift and is very smooth in its power delivery and has very good depower. yes the depower rope does flap around when its depowered alot but u can put a metal ring on it like I did ,, I will try to get a pic up in a few days. I'm not sure this will be a good kite for gusty winds as its a lifty kind of kite .basically I pull in the depower strap a lot then pull the center lines to launch.When the kite is up in the air I then adjust the depower strap to my liking. Like the previous poster said a little bit of tension on the back lines should prevent the overfly The kite is perfectly tuned from the factory in so that even when depowered alot the kite still is controllable and not sloppy. the top hat is a very simple and effective safety system but once deployed u will need a few min to get it back together. I don't really like 5th lines so I prefer the top hat system . Before you launch a kite u really should check the lines at least 2 times its very dangerous to launch a kite with twisted lines in strong wind. Enjoy the montana its one of my favorite kites.

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 05:38 PM

I'm sure i will, the few moments i had with it in the air were very promising. I'd be interested to see your solution to the depower rope. After my experience today i think my focus may have shifted from a low wind kite (m8 14m) to a gust kite (either apex, or access). I'm aware that the m8 is probably not the best idea for a gust kite but i've had it for about a week and a half and haven't put it in the air, so when i saw a chance i had to go for it.

nate76

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 08:52 PM

ssayr is right - pulling in lots of depower will cause the kite to overshoot more. It will also make the controls more mushy-feeling. I'd also recommend pulling only about 1/2 depower and push the bar forward if you feel like you still need more depower. For turns, pull the bar in towards you as you initiate the turn to get it to turn quicker, then push the bar forward to let the kite fly out of the turn and produce speed/power. Be careful hot-launches: redirect to the side rather than straight up so you don't get yarded - that will also help keep the kite from overshooting at zenith and dropping you like a bad habit.

The M8's are great kites, but you definitely have to respect the amount of lift they can produce - especially when they are moving quickly. 22mph will be pretty sporty on a 10m in gusty conditions.

Look forward to hearing more!

Founder/Owner Colorado Kite Sports
Specializing in Gin, Little Cloud & HQ4 foils.
http://coloradokitesports.com
Most used Kites: LC Pelican, Gin Marabou
Skis: Something w/ Marker Baron or Duke Bindings
Boards: Litewave Wing, Naish Jet 2000, OR Mako 140

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 09:32 PM

Thanks Nate.

Honestly after having thought about it for a while, i think it was mostly conditions hindering me today. The lack of knowledge about trimming the kite properly wasn't helping for sure, but even when i did have it stable at the apex for a moment i still got alot of surging. The one decent "fly" which lasted about 5 minutes, i was still experiencing alot of wingtip collapses at the sides of the window. Which caused me to try to center it up in the window more, and was unable to truely redirect to the sides. I think wind conditions just weren't quite stable enough for that kite today. Ontop of that as you mentioned the 10m would be "sporty" at 22mph which probably brought out the worst habits i have.

We will try again another (better hopefully) day. Enjoying watching your videos in the meanwhile.

nate76

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 09:47 PM

Ya, I think if you can get the kite out in the low to mid teens when it isn't gusting so bad - at least for some initial assessment - you're going to fall in love with that kite. The 12m was my personal favorite out of the M8 series, but I prefer lighter winds to stronger winds if I have the option (precisely because here in Colorado we have the same problem w/ gusty winds when the winds to start to pick up).

One other thing - once you start moving with the kite (like say on a buggy or on snow) you'll find some of the bad tendencies of any depower kite tend to dissolve with a little apparent wind. About the worst place you can have a kite in trashy conditions is directly overhead with no movement; its just begging to get schwacked.

Learning is half the fun. If we wanted a sport that was easy we would have bought a chair lift! Just remember the old paragliding proverb: "Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the AIR wishing you were on the GROUND." Equally true in kiting. There will always be another day...

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-25-2015 at 10:03 PM

Yeah it's making me reconsider what my next purchase will be, was going to spring for an m8 14m but I'm thinking it may be in my best interest to get an apex/access in my high wind kite size (6m).

nate76

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posted on 10-26-2015 at 05:21 AM

I'm a pretty big believer in having a lower-lift kite like an Apex/Access available for stronger gustier conditions. Its saved my bacon a couple of times in the mountains when I had some pretty dramatic gusts/surges that I know would have had me unintentionally airborne on anything else. Definitely a confidence booster in squirrel-ier winds and actually allows you to charge harder and enjoy the conditions more. And small kites are cheap kites, so its a double win.

gemini6kl

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posted on 10-27-2015 at 04:15 PM

This is the metal ring i placed on my depower strap of my montana bar. Its an old keyring and it helps to keep the strap from tangling on anything.

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-28-2015 at 03:23 PM

Doesn't seem to get in the way of bar action?

gemini6kl

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posted on 10-28-2015 at 06:31 PM

The ring moves freely up and dwn the center line.
p.s HQ I expect a royalty check if this design somehow mysteriously ends up on a 2017 montana kite . :smilegrin:

Quote: Originally posted by MotoFoo86

Doesn't seem to get in the way of bar action?

BeamerBob

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posted on 10-28-2015 at 09:39 PM

That ring is a good idea for a problem noticed by many. I've been worried about going through a turn and that handle wrapping around several times and knotting itself on the center line and then needing to pull the safety. All that might be different on the new ones coming out.

MotoFoo86

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posted on 10-28-2015 at 10:16 PM

The handle looks different, lighter perhaps which would stop it swinging so much but unless they shortened the amount of trim I forsee the same issue

Feyd

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posted on 10-29-2015 at 04:02 AM

Other brands have introduced similar set ups. Peter Lynn uses a ring for example.

However they are designed to easily break away if needed. In the event that you get snagged somehow or wrapped in the noose it create. For my needs I always left it disengaged. Even the Velcro wasn't always able to one apart fast enough and I would get into trouble sometimes.

Magnetic keepers would be less hazardous.

The better option IMO is to not use such a large heavy end handle. Its a lot of plastic. If you're doin a lot of bar spins it can be messy.

Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, Flysurfer, HQ kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 603-986-2784

MotoFoo86

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posted on 11-6-2015 at 02:10 PM

Whew, well then. Fly #2. My apex 5.5 arrived yesterday and honestly flying that made all the difference. Seems that on top of all your much appreciated advice what I really needed was just some flying time with something a little less dynamic to understand the principles of depower flying. The apex and some wind today afforded me that opportunity.

Onto the particulars of what I found today.

Winds 5 mph gusting to 8.

The Montana was a little below its comfortable range but still was a joy to fly, a little lazy but that's to be expected. Handled very nicely with both bar and over bar steering. Huge depower range. Still hate that orange handle and will be figuring out a replacement. Notice they removed it on the m9. To their credit once you get ahold of it it is a nice handle and makes it easy to manipulate the depower system. Clam cleat works exactly as it should.

Today was all static, but I really enjoyed the way the power came on. Very easy to anticipate and no surprises. Certainly reminded me when I was being stupid. At the wind speeds I was flying in it wasn't super stable but the fact that it had any stability I think is a serious compliment to the designers. I am now seriously looking forward to the impending winter snowfields!

Kept it lower in the window today to minimize overflying in this low wind, cant entirely speak to the lift but given my previous experience the lift is certainly there, but it's very easy to anticipate as well. Do some low pendulums and while I've never flow a kite like this the amount of glide I got was impressive as well.

Take this all with a grain of salt, as these are my first depower foils. I've done lei's but most of my flying has been on hq toxics. Great pull kites, not exceptional jump kites.

Tried to get pictures but the wind wasn't cooperating and I had to keep the kites moving or they would drop out of the sky. Only got a single picture of the apex on the ground waiting to take off. Nothing new or unique about that.

Big thanks to Nate and Colorado Kite Sports for making my day, and hopefully my winter with the addition of the apex and m8 14m.

gemini6kl

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posted on 11-6-2015 at 05:01 PM

yes I think this kite is at a stage where its perfectly tuned. I would hate to see it change much in the newer version. still curious as to what the version 9 has come up with. the 10m to me is the perfect size. good lift, hangtime and depower. I had some good time with the 14m the other day and realized it was much slower than the 10m and it was easier to work the 10 to get power than fiddle with the 14m.

nate76

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posted on 11-6-2015 at 06:01 PM

Nice Moto! Glad to hear you made it out. The M8 does seem exceptionally well tuned - makes me almost want to get another 12m before they are gone just in case they screw something up with the new model.

I never had a chance to fly the 10m, but the 12m was my personal favorite out of all the sizes. I found myself taking it out on days which were really more 14m conditions, just because it was so fun to throw around. There were definitely days when the 14m was the better choice though. It can get up and start generating power in suprisingly little wind, and turns well for its size. Smoooooth power. Just wish I could afford to own one of each!

nate76

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posted on 11-6-2015 at 06:04 PM

And I think you're going to find your 10m come alive around 10mph. 8mph you'll start to see it, by 10+ with some smoother winds it will be a total riot. Send it!

MotoFoo86

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posted on 11-6-2015 at 06:49 PM

Well it was a static day in a relatively small field (surround on 3 sides but sparse trees and a large undercover area on the fourth) lots of running around to make sure i didn't end up with a kite in a tree or on a roof. I was happy for the low winds. There was some struggle keeping it aloft. However snow is already falling up in the mountains, so soon enough i'll be craving more wind for my bigger snowfields. Hopefully the lakes stay frozen this year! I'm also a larger fellow (6'3" 230) so i have a feeling i'm going to be more in need of that 14m than some others.

Only photo i managed to snap, while the Apex was unhappily sitting on the ground waiting for the wind to pick back up (which it didn't, at least not until i have the montana set up)

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