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Author: Subject: First kite buggy?
eric67m


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 11:55 AM
First kite buggy?


My wife and I have been flying parafoil kites for several years and have progressively getting larger kites. This last year we got both a mbs and outback mountainboards and have been getting used to them.

We live in Washington state and in the summer are able to spend 4-5 weekends in Ocean shores and Westport.

We are looking to get a kite buggy. I am wondering what we should get. I haven't seen much on craigslist. I would assume we would get a pl xr+ because I don't want the bottom of the line. I also don't want to regret getting "xxxxxxx" in the near future, but also don't want to pay top dollar for a European custom.

My other option would be building something. I am a designer and custom fabricator. The cost of wheels and seats seem to be about the same as a entry-midline buggy.

My question boils down to... If you were to buy a first buggy again, what would you get?

Eric




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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bigkid


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 12:24 PM


Where in Washington are you?



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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 12:30 PM


There are certainly many more qualified than me to answer this question, but here goes: I would suggest taking a look at the Peter Lynn BigFoot. I first owned a PL Folding buggy but upgraded about 3-4 months ago to the BigFoot. Really nice ride, not too dissimilar to the XR+. What I like about the BigFoot are the tires. I'm told they are great on sand (no personal experience), but I can tell you that what I really like about them is how much less they chew up the grass on soccer fields than the smaller tires seem to do. This is one big reason I am still able to co-exist with my other users of my local fields. One of the groundskeepers even told me how much he likes how my tires don't chew up the grass! As you will find out, it is a delicate and precarious balance trying to co-exist with multiple users on public sports fields; you always feel about 3 seconds away from getting kicked off for good.

Good luck and welcome to the PKF family!




SS kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar+ (3.0m)
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); home-brewed AQR

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eric67m


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 01:19 PM


Jeff,

Thank you for your contact information. I may try to call you at some point to try to gain some of your knowledge.

I live up north east of Seattle in Monroe. Bay side beach access at Ocean Shores during the summer and family in law that has a place in Westport year round.

I like the idea of a big foot, bring able to hit some softer sand.




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 01:22 PM


1st move...hit up Bigkid if he doesnt have your bug, he has your parts
PL xr, flexis all good 1st bugs or 2nd maybe even 3rd..not a bigfoot fan myself
welcome aboard




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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eric67m


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 01:43 PM


What do you not like about big foots? What are their drawbacks vs benefits?




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 01:46 PM


Uhhh....Peter thin IS the bottom line.... LOL I really suggest building your own. Here's mine.:D

soulfly buggy1.jpg - 184kB




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NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
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Brooza IV 3.0 prototype
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Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 01:53 PM


i ride midis and have xtra barrow wheels...i always go on the hardpak but can go to the soft stuff...some
those bigfoots are to bouncy to get to speed and give you a higher center of gravity
you can convert a bug to a bigfoot setup when you want down the line too
this is me what works for you may be different...maybe you cant time tides and generally have soft stuff




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 02:56 PM


My wife and I both have PL Bigfoot buggies. We live on an island where we buggy on beach, soft sand, and blow sand in dunes. Some time is spent on hard pack where we enjoy the ride of the soft tires. Light weight and maneuverable at speeds up to 30 mph(for us) on soft, uneven terrain would be our use of the Bigfoot. They are not heavy, built for speed machines that go in straight lines at high speed. Find the buggy that meets your operational conditions, storage/transportation and price.

Pros: Axle(back wheels) pull off in seconds for storage and transport, affordable, short turning radius, light weight compared to many, big tires give soft ride, big tires for sand, all stainless construction(a must for the beach), parts are very available, good ground clearance to get over uneven terrain

Cons: Not a buggy designed for speed, is not heavy duty construction for big riders, wide rails that do not hold medium or small sized pilots in the buggy,
higher center of gravity due to ground clearance




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ssayre




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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 03:07 PM


I'm short and the xr has served me well for 2 years. If your 6' + than a larger buggy would suit you better. Big foot is longer than xr I think? I'm only 5' 9" and I wouldn't want a buggy any shorter than my xr and couldn't imagine riding it if I were much taller in a comfortable fashion.
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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 03:11 PM



Welcome.


Quote:

I am a designer and custom fabricator


The kite buggy community has lost some private 'garage shop' builders who make for sale a better built, reasonable cost quality buggy available to this community.

Hmmnnnn:rolleyes:.......


If you can come to build well balanced buggy , make and sell some to pay for your own buggy(materials)..... or some extra $..

...there may be a small market here for it...?



Quote:

The cost of wheels and seats seem to be about the same as a entry-midline buggy.


Not for basic plastic rim wheels w/barrow tires. Not at all.

Seat? some fabic, foam and webbing straps (and plastic stiffening sheets), all properly sewn can work for reasonable cost also. Some on here may help with those sources.

If you can fabricate the frame, axle and fork and have decent test results ....


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eric67m


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 04:43 PM


It would be great to find a used, reasonable priced buggy.

In my internet searching I have not found much in plastic rims. I'm sure a call to big kid would steer me in the right direction.




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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abkayak


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 05:35 PM


Exactly...u can get a Ferrari whenever or build it...just find a couple of bugs and you'll be happy...I mean if you have to share that's ok too

Oh yea..I'd be happy w/ just my PLxr w/ a backrest we are having a fine time




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 06:37 PM


Ssayre makes a good point about pilot body size pointing you in various directions. At 6 ft I felt cramped in the PL Folding buggy even with the down tube extended all the way. In thenBigFoot I've got the downtube adjusted all the way in and I have plenty of room. So... If you are 6-ft or taller keep all this in mind.

I hope something works out for you with BigKid. It can be tough finding a good buggy at a reasonable cost on the used market. Keep a keen eye on this site and be ready to pounce should something hit the For Sale threads!




SS kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar+ (3.0m)
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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eric67m


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 07:48 PM


Be quick is right. I'm am amazed and pleased with how active and responsive the people on this forum are. Thank you all in advanced. I think this will be a web forum that i will try to frequently check.



Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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Nfish


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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 07:54 PM


My first buggy (still the only buggy that I use) is a used stainless steel Libre full race buggy, and I put bigfoot tires with new wheels on them later on. If you can find a used Libre buggy you won't regret it - they are not that expensive either.



Beamer V 2m, PKD Buster Soulfly 3.3m, Venom2 16
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John Holgate




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[*] posted on 9-11-2015 at 11:14 PM


I'd also tip my hat towards the Libre if one comes up. I have a Vmax which is the best thing I've ever bought. Libre also make an entry point buggy - the Zebra, which in Aus is priced similarly to the Peter Lynn. I've had a ride in the Zebra and I was impressed - very similar to the Vmax. Much more comfy and sure footed than the Peter Lynn XR/Comp imho.



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WELDNGOD


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 09:04 AM


Quote: Originally posted by eric67m  
Be quick is right. I'm am amazed and pleased with how active and responsive the people on this forum are. Thank you all in advanced. I think this will be a web forum that i will try to frequently check.

You will start checking a couple times a day.. LOL




WELDNGOD on VIMEO
https://vimeo.com/user2580342

NAPKA US187
PKD
Combat 2.4 / 4.2
Century 1.8 / 5.5
Century II 2.2/2.8/3.5/4.5 /10.0
Brooza IV 3.0 prototype
Buster Soulfly 1.5 / 2.2 (KIA)/ 3.3 (lost at sea)
Buster Soulfly PRO 3.3 / 4.4
Buster (gen 1) 5.5
FLEXIFOIL
Sting 1.7 Punk
Rage 2.5 / 3.5/ 4.7
Revolution 1.5 SLE
17 ply Custom TRAMPA w/ verTIGo trucks
2 homebrew buggies,2 homebrew KYTBYKS,1 homebrew tandem trailer
GOPRO 3 WHITE, 3+ BLACK, HERO5 BLACK
CONTOUR HD
LET YOUR SOULFLY!

RIDER for KOKOPELLI KITER

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eric67m


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 10:51 AM


Big kid, it looks like you are south of me in Issaquah. I imagine you are heading down to the Oregon coast this weekend. I am heading to the Washington coast next weekend. It would be great to talk or get together sometime.




Flying A mixed quiver of Flysurfer Peak kites.

Rollin in the Popeye The Welder Playa buggy.
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Windy Heap


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 11:11 AM


Eric, I also am in Monroe / Sultan area and fly foils at the Frylands park soccer fields behind the school next to Lake Tye.

I've buggied there once and seems like a good field in the right wind.

U2U me an maybe we can meet up.

I've got a PL folding buddy if you want to have a test sit or touch the design in person..........I'm a total noob pilot with less than 1/2 dozen total runs, but at last finally bought my buggy a little over a month ago and tasted Sand for the first time last weekend at SOBB.

welcome to the forums.





Dave - Life is a big ocean out there to swim in.

2.3m Peter Lynn Vibe II
Two 2.6m Peter Lynn Viper S's
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3.9m Peter Lynn Viper
5.0m Beamer Gen IV
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 12:09 PM


Welcome,

I would suggest you contact Jellis . Jon is the man when it comes to Libre. He also has a good idea of what is available ( if anything ) in the Pacific N.W..

Jeff AKA Big Kid is definitely your closest source for buggy info. I think he has sold off most of his stock so doubt he has a buggy to buy but he will have something to try.

A very common and functional set up is to buy a smaller, light buggy ( Flexi or Peter Thin with a back rest ) and a larger big wheeled one. The big one will serve best on the beach. The smaller one will serve in smaller parks + for the wife and kids. Hook the 2 together to give Tandem Rides !!!

Building your own buggy is very do-able! It is easier to get proper dimensions and such online since Popeye, Weldngod, Van ( RonH honourable mention ) and others have pushed the home build scene. As you understand, it will cost almost as much to fabricate your own but pay full price for seat and wheels. The pride in having a quality buggy that you fabricated... Priceless!!!

Something to consider is transport. After upgrading to an Ivanpah ( similar to the one in the picture in the next post ) I found it didn't break down for travel and storage. A requirement since I had no hitch for a buggy rack and only a small kite shed for my gear.

If I was buying a new or used buggy and need to break it down for transport as I do I would be looking for a Flexifoil. Truth is I am looking for one that I can buy and avoid shipping so if one comes up around here you better act fast!




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 NS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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rtz


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 12:11 PM


Quote: Originally posted by eric67m  

My question boils down to... If you were to buy a first buggy again, what would you get?


I think about this all the time. I bought a PL Folder 5 years ago. Have rode it a lot since. For me; I like it's portability and convenience. It's also light and nimble. If I wanted a larger buggy; I would absolutely have one.

I ride in a small area on grass and it's more of an obstacle course then a wide open area.

Apparently the PL Folder may not be produced anymore. So a used one is the only option there. PL Buggies in general may not be in production right now. So finding one in stock or a used one is an option there. Lightest and lowest cost option there.

A step up from there; if you want a "freestyle" type buggy; the Flexifoil would be a good choice. The price drops once it's added to the cart and the VAT is removed from the price: http://www.flexifoil.com/traction/navaro

A step up from that(I can only assume) would be the Basixx: http://www.xxtreme.nl/xxproducts/basixx-kitebuggy-freestyle/

If you can get a Libre; absolutely pick it up. All in all; they are really quite reasonable price wise compared to all else out there: http://www.libre.de/Eng/Buggys.html

From there; 3 price points/levels. A buggy from France(Apparently made in China) for $1,000: http://www.buggykiteshop.com/

An extremely fine buggy in the $2,000 range: http://gt-race.nl/index.php

What is considered by some as top of the line for $3,000: http://www.xxtreme.nl/xxproducts/apexx-kitebuggy-racing/


That is basically and essentially the kite buggy market.

Now depending on your fab skills or connections to those who can; if you want one just like this; it can be built:




You can download the prints for it: http://popeyethewelder.com/popeyethewelder/building-kite-bug...

Extremely good videos are also available showing every step of the way.

So it's a matter of what model one wants; and how much one is willing to spend.

If the high prices of everything kite related seem off putting; give it a few years and the prices will either wear you down or you will become indifferent and just buy what you like. Happened to me.

If I was buying another buggy today; I would pick up a Libre just for immediate convenience. Despite as much as I would like to build the buggy pictured above.
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 04:20 PM


I've been wanting a basixx ever since I realized they existed a couple weeks ago. siderails look awesome.
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