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Author: Subject: General Flysurfer Peak kite discussion
Windstruck


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[*] posted on 8-24-2015 at 06:15 AM


Well said (as always) Chris! We all wished we could spend time with you, with our without our kites! My folks live in Southern Vermont as I've mentioned to you before. Maybe on one of my visits I'll be able to make a shot up to North Conway!

When I got my 12m from you it was of course perfectly tuned and I'm sure in your skilled hands flew like a true lady. In my (then) inexperienced hands she flew like a drunken barfly until I got the hang of things. No real changes of the kite (save one move of the outside lines up one knot under the foam bars) but lots of hours later and tip tuck is a once in a few sessions event. It seems that this happens the least when I manage to finesse the kite such that good tension remains on the lines at all times. I'm sure there is more to it than that, but whatever I'm doing now just seems to make the kite behave much better than it did when I was starting out with it.

BTW, you are no doubt absolutely correct about the benefit of static flying Peaks or any other kite. My thing is that I like buggying about 1000% more than static flying so if I can buggy as compared to stand around that's what I'm doing!




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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robinsonpr


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[*] posted on 8-24-2015 at 06:39 AM


Thanks Chris for your input.

From my point of view I hope it's not pilot inexperience that caused me to have issues with my 12m, as I've got a LOT of hours both static and buggying with my 6m Mk1.

I think I can put my problem with the 12m down to trying to fly it static in marginal winds. I know the 12m is a light wind kite, but in lulls of sub 5mph I think we are expecting too much of the kite to fly nicely and stay well inflated during the lulls without some anticipation and pilot input to keep the kite moving well during those lulls.

I too bought my kite used. It's from a UK distributor, an ex-demo kite. It may have had some tuning attempts, but I suspect it's "stock". It may or may not need a tweak. I'm not going to try and mess with it as I don't know what I'm doing and have no-one else around with the same kite to compare how another one behaves. I could end up putting it completely out of whack.

Hopefully it's cool as-is. If I hadn't read all the other posts about it I probably wouldn't have given it much consideration. I'll stick with mine for a few more flights before jumping up and down about it. It was great yesterday in the buggy so I suspect it's just those low wind lulls and shifts that can be troublesome. And I suspect most any kite will show some sort of unruly behaviour in those types of winds!




Rev 1.5 SLE
PL Pepper 1.5m, Twister III 3m
Flysurfer Peak I 6m, Peak II 12m
Ozone Access V6 6m, 4m incoming!
Arcs Venom 13m, Synergy 15m
LEIs Slingshot Rally 7m, 9, 12m
Kheo Flyer Landboard
PTW SuperBug II
Nobile NHP Carbon Split
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3shot


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[*] posted on 8-24-2015 at 07:20 AM


Janky..... The root of all evil...:evil:



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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Feyd


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[*] posted on 8-24-2015 at 11:07 AM


Thanks Steve. :-)

Robin, every second spent on any kite flying is time well spent and time that adds to your muscle memory. However in this case I should be more clear it's time on Peaks specifically on the Peak2 that is required. In fact a lot of people that seem to have the hardest time are pretty heavily experienced pilots that are used to using certain techniques and skills to manage more traditional dual skin kites. The Peaks, especially the Peak2, kinda operate outside what is "normal" for managing the behavior of a kite. The kite does things that other kites can't mostly good but a few weird ones too.

The next closest comparison I can come up with is the Chrono. I've flown a lot of hours on a lot of kites. The Chrono has a reputation for being not entirely user friendly. But when I got on the Chrono for the first time it felt as natural as can be. None of the issues I've hear presented themselves in any real way and it was a dream to fly. None of the Matrixx's, Frenies, Montana's, Rangers or anything had much of an influence on how that kite felt so good to me. The kite that gave me the muscle memory to simply hook in and go, was the F-arc. Another kite with a bad reputation that takes a lot of work to fly well. Another kite that is one of my all time favorites.

The Peak 1 is much simpler and easier to fly. Some of what you learned on that kite is directly applicable to the Pk2. But the PK2 with it's increased performance and sensitivity to tuning is a bit different and adds some considerable learning curve. Ironically, kiters with little experience seem to adapt to the PK2 quickly.

I'm sure the kite you got is fine as I'm sure most are fine. I suspect Cheddar's was pretty much okay but the tune was messed up.

Maybe it needs a tweak, maybe not. You're in the same boat as Cheddar as you have nothing to compare it too and nobody on hand that can throw it in the air for a few minutes and figure out what, if anything, is going on. It will just take some time to get it dialed in. Like Steve said, it happens gradually and it's really hard to put a finger on it.

Also, if you want to experiment with tuning without messing with the mixer, tune it at the floats. You can really do a lot there by changing the line position of even changing the knot positions. Just be sure to mark where you started. ;)





Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, HQ and GIN kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 518-407-KITE
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 8-24-2015 at 11:22 AM


Sounds like I would be a good candidate for a Peak 2 since the only depower experience I've had is with a peak 1 and a pl arc. No traditional dp time at all and will remain that way :D

Also, I always static fly the colors off of all my kites before moving
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[*] posted on 8-24-2015 at 12:47 PM


Good stuff. Same here. Heck a few weeks ago, me and riffclown flew for six hours. All static! Was quite refreshing actually.



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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Cheddarhead


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[*] posted on 8-28-2015 at 06:51 PM


Look what showed up at my door today:D:D Absolutely stoked!! Now my 12m has a partner in crime. Up to my ears in work hours this weekend so it will have to wait till Monday for it's maiden flight. I have to give a huge thumbs up to Chris Krug for getting this to me so fast! From payment until it arrived on my door step was like three days total. Outstanding service to say the least:thumbup:

Now back to our regularly scheduled kite Porn:cool:




SS Turbine 17m
SS Rally 14m
SS Rally 12m
SS RPM 10m
SS Rally 8m
SS Rally 6m
FS Speed 3 15m dlx
FS Peak 2 6m
Ozone Frenzy 9m
Ozone Access XT 6m
PL Farc 1200

What I ride:
Home brew buggy
Volkl race tiger DH 210
Dynastar DH 218
Blizzard Cochise 185
Steepwater 179 twin tip
Aboards Reverse 161
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 8-28-2015 at 07:07 PM


@Cheddarhead - outstanding Peak Porn! That is one purdie kite you have yourself there. Once the wind kicks up over 15 mph you are going to have a blast with that thing. You'll notice that the bar in narrower than your 12's and that it will be far easier to pack up at the end of a session than the 12, particularly when it is windy out and the single skin beasts want to flop around all over the place on the ground.

I'll be most interested to hear how you fly with it compared to the 12m, particularly if you are buggying. I have a lot of ingrained muscle memory from steering my 12m P2, a kite I love, but refer to as a barge for turning. As such I tend to over steer the 6m, something that I've really had to focus on to quiet my actions down.

Outstanding that you got it through Chris! All three of my Peaks came from him and I couldn't be happier to do business with him.

Really happy for you!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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Cheddarhead


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[*] posted on 8-28-2015 at 07:27 PM


Thanks Steve! Here I thought the 12m Peak packed down small......this thing hardly takes up any room at all. A guy could carry a whole quiver of Peaks and not worry about too much weight. I think my 12m Peak, 6m Peak and 6m Ozone Access will prove to be a great three kite quiver. I'll be sure to test it with the buggy when we get some more wind, right now it's been pretty calm the last few days.



SS Turbine 17m
SS Rally 14m
SS Rally 12m
SS RPM 10m
SS Rally 8m
SS Rally 6m
FS Speed 3 15m dlx
FS Peak 2 6m
Ozone Frenzy 9m
Ozone Access XT 6m
PL Farc 1200

What I ride:
Home brew buggy
Volkl race tiger DH 210
Dynastar DH 218
Blizzard Cochise 185
Steepwater 179 twin tip
Aboards Reverse 161
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[*] posted on 8-28-2015 at 07:28 PM


Congrats Cheddar!



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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robinsonpr


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[*] posted on 8-28-2015 at 11:14 PM


Nice one cheddar, looking forward to hearing all about your first flight!

12m Peak, 6m Peak and 6m Access...my sweet 3 kite quiver too! (I just fancy changing out my 6m Peak I for a II, I really like the mkII bar :D)




Rev 1.5 SLE
PL Pepper 1.5m, Twister III 3m
Flysurfer Peak I 6m, Peak II 12m
Ozone Access V6 6m, 4m incoming!
Arcs Venom 13m, Synergy 15m
LEIs Slingshot Rally 7m, 9, 12m
Kheo Flyer Landboard
PTW SuperBug II
Nobile NHP Carbon Split
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 8-29-2015 at 02:50 AM


Right on Cheddar! Now if I could just find a peak 1 9m to compliment my 6m
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TEDWESLEY




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Mood: cat-like,I stalk the wind

[*] posted on 8-29-2015 at 07:08 AM


Weather report for Green Bay for the next couple of days : Zero wind during nonworking hours!
Beware the kite curse
Love the kite




Reactors 2.8 3.5 6.9
Peaks 4m 6m 12m
HQ Neo2 11m Ozone Chrono V2 15m WASP 5m
Flexi wide axle w/mids and runners
Skis Nordic skates and winter stuff
NAPKA US06
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Psychotronic




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[*] posted on 9-2-2015 at 07:55 AM


I love my Peak2 6m, and I did experience some "issues" at first. However, Chris explained to me that -- because it's my first depower -- what I was experiencing is likely due to operator error as opposed to kite issues. After 6 weeks of flying it, he's (of course) right -- I get much less tip tuck, etc.

I get it now, as I'm able to do way more on this kite than my Rush Pro 350 (like seriously going upwind, for starters!).




Trampa 35 Long ATB
HQ Rush IV Pro 350
Flysurfer Peak2 6m
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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 9-7-2015 at 04:27 AM
Peak water launch..?!


Possible...but unlikely in most cases...especially if a relaunch?




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TEDWESLEY




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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 07:24 AM


I was getting my gear in order for the soon upon us buggy season at the beach, when I decided to pack up one of the BEST bags that
RTZ found on the web last year. I was able to put all of my Peaks 4m,6m,and 12m, in along with two harnesses with some room left
over for gloves and small stuff. All up it weighed in at 19lbs. This is going to make the winter treks to the lake a piece of cake since the
total wind range is covered I won't have to worry about what kites I'll need. Not bad for three kites with bars and harnesses ready to fly.




Reactors 2.8 3.5 6.9
Peaks 4m 6m 12m
HQ Neo2 11m Ozone Chrono V2 15m WASP 5m
Flexi wide axle w/mids and runners
Skis Nordic skates and winter stuff
NAPKA US06
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 07:42 AM


Ted and RTZ - I remember reading something a while back about a really good bag. Do you have a link to the web listing of the bag or the PKF thread? Thanks in advance! :thumbup:



Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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ssayre




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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 08:36 AM


Steve, I got mine during a sale kiteboarding.com had that rtz let us know about I think. Deal is no longer running. It was 2 huge bags and a laptop case for 25. Super awesome deal that you can't have :evil:
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-12-2015 at 08:57 AM


A day late and a dollar short! Oh well. :(

Not to sit around and pout, here is my set up for my complete Peak-2 quiver. From left to right: 12m, 9m, 6m, and 4m, each with their own bar and lines rolled in. The two larger P2s are in 16 L sacks while the two smaller ones are in 11 L sacks. Complete quiver with backpack weighs in right at 25 lbs. Try that with four full sized twin-skins! :cool:



[img][/img]


[img][/img]




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 05:00 AM


The old Lowe Contour pack.... a great pack with just the right adjustment and not too many or overcomplicated adjustments. Fits a lot of people very well.... and reasonable weight backpack.

That Best bag is good for short haul(and was a steal of a deal for 2 plus laptop) but for long wearing, long trek comfort...the pre-mentioned is a REAL backpack.

Memories...of pack fitting...:rolleyes:

Anyway....

Luckily for at least one big Lake, long out and back.... one FB foil kite has worked for what was consistent speed, all day wind. But.....

Nice to be able to haul whole kite quiver because they're so compact and light.

What beside a Peak could give such a well-performing and lightweight packable option for backcountry treks, long wind-variable out and backs..or I guess just short hauls from parking lot next to beach?

My NPW's are even more compact...but not as versatile(performance) or safe( safety release).....but that's at least a possibility for take your quiver to a remote launch area, backcountry ski/kite ski combo tour.
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 05:18 AM


I agree with skim. the backpack you have is probably better if your going to actually wear it and go on an expedition. Did you have to buy the stuff sacks or did the peak come with any?

Also, skimT, your right, there's not much else that would pack up small and have the MASSIVE range that all 4 of those would have. I can't even imagine the range given that I only have 1 size and it covers a very wide range.

skimt, I don't see why you couldn't have a safety on your npw's. If I were buying or making my own, I would bridle them or make them to fly on 2 lines. Then all you need is a D loop with release and a simple 2 line bar. To each their own but I've flown them 4 line mode and don't really see that it adds anything. They turn on a dime off 2 lines. If I'm flying a nasa, I want full power all the time regardless of wind.
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 05:25 AM


Skim - you bring a smile to my face calling out my Lowe pack! :D

I love that backpack. Years ago I covered more miles than I could count with that trusty friend on my back. I can absolutely vouch for its comfort in the long haul with a whole lot more than 25 lbs in it! I must have bought that pack 25-30 years ago and I just couldn't part with it. Over those years we moved a fair number of times and each time it (and other treasures) were on the chopping block. So... it gave me special joy to finally find a use for it again! :P

Here's the thing: I like having all of my P2s in one bag for loading and unloading my car quickly and efficiently. I have a Ford Edge that I pop the back seats down in and load up the back. It's also my work car so I end up loading and unloading it a lot. The fewer (and better organized) total number of articles to throw in and out of that rig the better. That being said I wouldn't actually consider heading out for an actual big session with all four P2s on my back. The wind range of these kites are pretty broad so on any given day two P2 would cover the likely range that you'd see that day. To that end I also have a really nice PL Lynx backpack that is about half the volume of the Lowe pack but shaped somewhat the same; perfect for two Peaks. I actually have two of those Lynx bags and my entire Born-Kite quiver fits into the other one! Yes, they do pack up that small.

I'm not sure if Chris (feyd) reads this thread on a regular basis, but he is supremely knowledgeable about kite selection for backcountry treks such as you are asking about. I'd hook up with him via U2U and get set up through him if I were you. This is my first year doing mobile traction kiting and I haven't snowkited yet. I plan to do so quite a bit and intend to use my P2s for this. I agree with you that conditions would have to be pretty ideal wind and snow wise for me to consider using my Stars for this as they are far more narrow in their wind range per kite and tend to leave less of the power adjustment up to the user.




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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Feyd


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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 05:26 AM


Are you carrying all 4 bars and lines? If we do a tour where theres a good chance we'll need multiple wings we just pack the wings. Save a ton of space and weight. In a 2 or 3 person group we each usually just carry 1 kite on our backs depending on the size or the riders in the group. Then as conditions warrant we simply trade off whichever kite the other person needs and only one person has to actuality swap a wing.

The PK1 was supremely compact. 6m and bar fit in an average size camelback.




Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, HQ and GIN kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 518-407-KITE
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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 08:11 PM
Another advantage of single skins like a Peak..


Went kiting today and one of the regulars.....he shows up with his first depower...a new Peak 2 6m.

He was really enjoying this. 11-14 mph winds, approx...... cloudy and high humidity.

When the rain finally came I had my FB foil kite put away heavy with wetness and sand coating.

But Matt was still flying his Peak......well into the light to moderate rain and it was still flying pretty well.

The foil is SO MUCH more affected by wetness than a single skin. I can recall using my NPWs in wet weather. Worked well.

There is just much more kite surfaces- internal and external-for moisture or sand to absorb, stick to.

And cells of foil can scoop sand when downed unintentional or launch/landing, sand enters cells... gets trapped. Then you try to pilot a flip-shake and dump damp sticky sand from cell.. or stake and go down to shake out...


But a single skin...

Less material and surface area, no cell to trap sand, lighter to begin with by less material. This advantage in wetness seemed a stark reminder today.




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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 08:26 PM


Well said skim! Just keep on countn' the advantages!:D



Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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skimtwashington




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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 08:41 PM


...Single Skins won't trap powder snow(like in a foils cells) in Winter either.


You jonesin' for some kite skiing, I bet, Windstruck....
Winters coming!
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Windstruck


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[*] posted on 9-13-2015 at 09:44 PM


A little more Peak Porn for the devoted (addicted?)! It was days like today that I was very thankful for my "session-saver" the 12m P2. The Fat Lady flew like a champ in some very light and variable winds. I just love how steady she is in the air. :cool:






Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

NAPKA Member US2815
SWATK Member UT0003
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TEDWESLEY




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Mood: cat-like,I stalk the wind

[*] posted on 9-20-2015 at 02:25 PM


Mainkite and I had the first buggy session of the season yesterday in winds that started in 8- 10 and built to 15-20+. I started with the 6m
and had some great beach runs as the beach was unusually flat and hard. As the wind built the fog came in which made for an interesting
couple of runs as there were other humans,dogs, etc. not to forget that Mainekite was moving out there. We landed for a while as our glasses
were fogging up. During the rest I changed kites to the 4m that I had only flown static since getting it midsummer. It is a fairly zippy kite in winds that were 18 or so. I found that control was solid with one interesting trait that I have noticed a little on my other Peaks. When you fly
to edge of the window as you approach where a foil might stall and collapse, the peak does something like the parking maneuver and drifts
back. Let out the bar a little and it surges into the correct position. Our beach, Pine Point ME, curves so that the length of your run depends
on windward ability. She goes good.

Isn't it the time of year when we should be hearing rumors of the Peak 3 ???




Reactors 2.8 3.5 6.9
Peaks 4m 6m 12m
HQ Neo2 11m Ozone Chrono V2 15m WASP 5m
Flexi wide axle w/mids and runners
Skis Nordic skates and winter stuff
NAPKA US06
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Windstruck


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Location: Park City, UT, USA
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[*] posted on 9-20-2015 at 04:23 PM


Nice write up Ted! Sounds like a great session. I've noted what you mentioned too. Seems to take some finessing with the bar to keep the Lady in check and bridled in the right position. All in a day's work!

I know the Peak 3 must be coming at some point, but blimey, I just stocked up on P2s! :P




Born-Kites:
RaceStar+ (3.0m, 5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m, 14.0m)
RaceStar (9.0m, 11.0m)
NasaStar-4 (2.5m, 4.0m, 5.5m, 7.0m)
NasaStar-3 (custom 3.2m)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn BigFoot+ nose & tail; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; home-brewed AQR

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3shot


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Mood: JIBE Talkin'

[*] posted on 9-20-2015 at 04:31 PM


That's what happens. Complete a quiver...its outdated.... Lol



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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