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Author: Subject: General Born-Kite discussion.
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biggrin.gif posted on 7-16-2015 at 05:27 PM
General Born-Kite discussion.


Figured I would start a new thread. For general Born-Kites (Ssayre :thumbup: ), lines, and accessory discussions. Here goes..

Sorry for the loooong delay on this Sean. Here is my "upgraded" bar I told you about a few months ago. I am going to give her a try this weekend at a kite festival. Its more so for the 7m and up sizes. Maybe even the 5.5m. I found the factory bar to be just a little short for the larger Stars. Its functional yes, but at JIBE, I had to work the bar a lot more for the larger 7m. This should help a good bit in the turns, and general control. I'm sure its going to be too much input for the smaller sizes, but should be better for the larger kites. Its a PL 07 bar (I think). Its 6" longer than the HQ bar. I'm curious how it will effect the flight. I changed nothing else. Real easy swap of the hardware. I still have another complete factory bar and line assembly I plan on leaving rigged up for the smaller sizes.







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Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
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Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 05:53 PM


First of all, I like the idea of a general nasa star discussion thread, although how will I sneak in nasa star discussion on the other threads like I always do :D

That bar looks great and I think will be great on the 5.5 and 7. Nice work, I've been wanting to tinker more with bar modifications but haven't gotten around to it.
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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 06:13 PM


Oh... we will still ad lib the Nasa Star propaganda LOL.



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
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Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 06:50 PM


I'm GAME!!!... I think we've taken the NS3 review thread that John started as long as possible...

Bar looks good Jason!




In real life, they call me Spencer

Flying-- HQ Symphony 2.1.4 (its old), 2.5m & 4m Born Kite NS2, 6m Flysurfer Peak 1 (a minty fresh Gift) and 12m Flysurfer Peak 2 (the gnat fart catcher).
Riding-- VTT Stinger XR Hybrid and an XR/VTT Frankenbuggy (Tandem).
Playing-- Silverangel #429 ... oh wait thats the other forum.
JWC-- Founding member and self appointed president.

PB: 30.5 mph

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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 07:02 PM


Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
I'm GAME!!!... I think we've taken the NS3 review thread that John started as long as possible...

Bar looks good Jason!


Thanks Sean and Spencer. I'll let you know Sunday how it did.

Agree Spencer about John's thread. There was some real good stuff in there about Stars in general, that drifted quite a bit from the review. :embarrased:

markite, I promise you will like this bar a lot better :lol: :lol: :lol:




Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 07:15 PM


nice PL bar, had few of those!



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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 07:36 PM


Jason - nice bar and nice new thread! I've yet to fly my NS3 8.5M. Based on what you are writing here I'm most curious to see how well it does with the only bar I have for my Born kites which is the one that I bought from Steffen. It of course worked fine for the 4M. Truth be told, I haven't flown the 2.5 either (not enough wind during these warmer summer months) and the 3.2 custom kite I won on XK is on route (it's smaller so should be fine on the standard smaller bar).

Should I feel "underbared" with the 8.5 do you have any retail suggestions for a dedicated larger NS3 bar? You are mentioning the PL 07 bar but that likely wouldn't be readily available. NS3's come in sizes up to 12.5M so I'd think the much larger sizes would be way "underbared" based on what you are saying.




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Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
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Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 08:37 PM


Lol Steve. The factory bar from Steffen is more than capable of getting the job done. Hope I'm not coming across sounding like it isn't. I have the same bars from Steffan that you do. I just feel a huge difference in bar input from the 2.5m vs the 7m. Rightly so. I'm hoping to get the same input "feel" across the board. So a shorter bar for the small kites, and a longer bar for the larger kites. I really had to crank the bar with the 7m. Just felt like a longer bar would help. Pretty sure it will. That PL bar was an extra I had picked up awhile back for just such a mod. Just swapped the hardware from one bar to another. Any longer bar should work. You can rummage the "bay" and find stripped bars all day long. That's all you'd need. Not that I would even suggest it, but a Navigator bar would let you switch from short to long all with one bar. Again, I'm not trying to get the cart ahead of the mule here. Just speculating a longer bar will be a little nicer on the larger kites. I'll know the day after tomorrow. Steffan sells just the bar conversion kits for people that want to use a different bar.



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
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Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



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[*] posted on 7-16-2015 at 11:37 PM


My 3 line bar is 21" and my pro depower setup bar is 20". Can't say I've ever felt the need for the kite to turn quicker - even the 10m seems fine on these bars.

One interesting thing I've noticed about the Nasa Stars - when you downloop a foil, you usually get a pretty big rush of power as it picks up speed and heads back through the window as opposed to an uploop. With the Nasa's it doesn't seem to make any difference at all whether you downloop or uploop. I'd almost go as far as to say there's no point at all in downlooping a Nasa Star as you just have to re-loop the kite to uncross the lines (because we can't spin the bars with the trapeze loop).

pssst: there's a new 5 line bar coming for the Long Star...but I don't know anymore than that. Yet.




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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 03:49 AM


Any more word on the Ultra Star John? Last I heard from Stefan they were coming out mid 2015.



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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 03:55 AM


Long star will be released in a few days. I'll bet he will turn his attention on ultra star more after the release of long star. I'm an unrepentant star addict. If it ends with Star than I want one sooner or later :D
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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 03:56 AM


Jason, maybe the name of this thread should be general Born-Kite discussion
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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 04:02 AM


Cool beans about bar length - good discussion! It is possible that I get my 8.5M up in the air later today. Since I only have the stock bar I will soon find out how it feels in relation to the 4M. On the 4 the turns were SUPER fast. Interesting comment John about the apparent lack of increased power in the downlooped turn compared to the uplooped one. I've yet to fly my NS3 quiver from my buggy and look forward to making this comparison myself.

Finally, and I made this mistake only about 50 times before I finally corrected myself, Herr Born's given name is STEFFEN with only E's, not Steffan. :ninja:




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Born-Kite RaceStar+ (3.0m)
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 06:46 AM


Good idea Sean. Lets do a general Born thread!

Like John and many others said, the stock bars work fine. It flies all the sizes. I myself just prefer a little more input on the larger Stars. A few other people said the same thing at JIBE that tried my Stars. I also agree with John that there is no notable differences in power on a down turn vs an upturn.




Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 08:20 AM


@3shot - what did you do with the chicken loop, depower and trim strap from the '07 bar..?



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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 12:15 PM


@John,... I noticed the same thing about no difference between the down or uploop... I might even say that I noticed that a loop would slow me down.

@Jason,... My 7m is my most flown to date and I don't feel like I have any need for more input on my 7m... its quite responsive IMO... I love how little input it takes actually. There are times when I can take my hands off the bar and just let it be. If it starts to go a direction I don't want I just give the bar a little input and its right back where I want it. ... You guys think there is a difference in this arena between the NS2 and the NS3? I like to fly it static with my ear buds in and a bottle of water in one hand :smilegrin: (only cuz I'm not a beer drinker... if it were cold out. it'd be a coffee).




In real life, they call me Spencer

Flying-- HQ Symphony 2.1.4 (its old), 2.5m & 4m Born Kite NS2, 6m Flysurfer Peak 1 (a minty fresh Gift) and 12m Flysurfer Peak 2 (the gnat fart catcher).
Riding-- VTT Stinger XR Hybrid and an XR/VTT Frankenbuggy (Tandem).
Playing-- Silverangel #429 ... oh wait thats the other forum.
JWC-- Founding member and self appointed president.

PB: 30.5 mph

You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.
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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 12:29 PM


U2U sent cheezy!



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 02:13 PM


Its just personal preference really Spencer. As with any kite, the bigger the size, the more sluggish it becomes. I must say again, I hope people are not taking by bar project as a complaint! The original 20" bar gets the job done on my whole quiver. I'd just like to speed up the response time a tad on the larger sizes. That's just my personal preference. I haven't flown a NS3, so I don't have a comment on the comparison. The trailing edge is bridled a little different on the 3 correct? I'd have to rummage the web, but I thought the NS3 was improved on responsiveness in general? I know my 2.5, and 4m are crazy responsive. The 5.5 isn't that bad, and the 7 is a bit slower. Just want to test my bar theory. It may be a total bust, But I'll know either way. If nothing else, in the future I can say "hey, I tried that once" lol :D

Tomorrow is a low wind static kite festival. I suspect I can fly the new bar on the 7m first bat. I'll know exactly how it will compare coming off two days of low JIBE wind.




Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 03:48 PM


I'm interested to hear what you find Jason!... enjoy the Wright Kite festival... anymore of the VA boys headed out other than you and Riff?

I personally am hoping I can procure a 10m in the fall.. AND hoping the fall winds give me some good sessions,... nothing like this bleh summer poopy lull wind :no:




In real life, they call me Spencer

Flying-- HQ Symphony 2.1.4 (its old), 2.5m & 4m Born Kite NS2, 6m Flysurfer Peak 1 (a minty fresh Gift) and 12m Flysurfer Peak 2 (the gnat fart catcher).
Riding-- VTT Stinger XR Hybrid and an XR/VTT Frankenbuggy (Tandem).
Playing-- Silverangel #429 ... oh wait thats the other forum.
JWC-- Founding member and self appointed president.

PB: 30.5 mph

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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 03:59 PM


From VA, I think just me and riff. Chris from HQ will be there for sure. It will actually be a little refreshing to just static fly for a change without stressing over the wind cooperating for the buggy.



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 05:24 PM



Quote:

Any more word on the Ultra Star John?


I haven't heard anything. I've been trying to squeeze Steffen for some more info on the Long Stars but he just keeps saying...you will see for yourself :D




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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 06:18 PM


I'll be interested to see if the longer bar will hold up to the additional leverage placed on the d loop attachment points that will try and fold the bar. In a normal depower setting which the bar is designed, there are no such demands placed on the bar. It's probably strong enough but something to keep an eye on.
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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 08:10 PM


I can tell you, if the wind is cranking enough to bend a 07 bar in half, I'll be on the sidelines drinking beers watching you guys anyway!!! Lmao

But yes you are correct. The Star setup has the load on the ends of the bar where a normal depower setup, the load is at your chickenloop.




Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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[*] posted on 7-17-2015 at 09:54 PM



Quote:

The Star setup has the load on the ends of the bar where a normal depower setup, the load is at your chickenloop.


That's one of the reasons I like the pro depower bar setup - the load is spread evenly between the bar ends and the chicken loop - no trapeze. The chicken loop has a quick release from the bar instead. Having said that, I'm quite happy using either.




Libre Vmax, Alloy Vermin buggy.
Ozone Access/Method/Riot/Imps/
Born-Kite Nasa Star 2's & 3. Born-Kite Long Star 3,5,7m. Peak 2 6m.
My Music is available here: http://www.soundclick.com/members/default.cfm?member=jbholga...
And here: http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/JohnHolgate
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[*] posted on 7-18-2015 at 02:04 AM


The pro depower bar does look pretty sweet. I will give it to Steffen. He has some great designs. Can't wait to hear about the Long Star John.



Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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[*] posted on 7-18-2015 at 07:28 PM


OK. So I tried my much anticipated longer bar with the 7m Star at the festival today. In public eye. The verdict is:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
It was pretty cool hearing the broadcaster over the pa system saying "and over in the back field ZIPPING around, we have a Nasa Star power kite."

One hand Nasa Star flying never gets old. Frees up a hand for phone pics LOL.








Doesn't look like much in the pics, but using the 07 bar, the 7 and 5.5m was 100x more responsive in the turns than the 20" bar. I wouldn't go any smaller kites on the long bar. The 2.5, and 4m are already super snappy with the 20" bar. I didn't get to fly the smaller kites. Just the 7 and 5.5m. The wind built up to about 15mph this afternoon. Started out with the 7m earlier of course. The wind picked up to where I was getting drug around pretty good on the 7m. More like snatched around actually. Under the hard loads, I never saw the bar show signs of stress with the load on the bar's ends. I'm sure under harder than normal loads, there is always a chance of bar damage regardless. Met a really cool kite boarded that was in town from Maui. He had never seen a Nasa Star before. He was mesmerized by the depower concept. He asked if he could try it. Well, of course I let him. He put my harness on, gave the 5.5m Star a few tugs back, made a few passes and was like..... :o :o :wow: :wow: "this is badd@$$, I've got to get me one of these!" Of course I gave him all the Born info ;). He really complimented on the longer Peter Lynn bar's effects. All in all, I am pleased with the little experiment. So pleased, that I now have a dedicated 7 &5.5m bar setup, and a 4 &2.5m bar setup. Seeing the 7 turn almost as fast as the 4m was pretty damn cool. I'm happy:D




Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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[*] posted on 7-18-2015 at 07:39 PM


I'm sold bro. I definitely need to get a longer bar. I hadn't given it much thought for a long time, but early on I thought the larger ones needed a longer bar. That's an awesome story about the kitesurfer.

Come to think of it. That might be why I don't enjoy longboarding with the larger sizes as well. The longer bar might be the answer for streetkite as well?
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[*] posted on 7-18-2015 at 07:44 PM


Jason - it sounds as if you are having a wonderful time at the kite festival. Way to go with your NASA Ambassador duties! Talk about holding the torch high.

I flew my NS3 8.5m for the very first time today and did some nice buggying with it. Winds were around 10-12 knots and it was moving me right along. This was my very first time going mobile with a NS3 and it was pretty cool. The 8.5m wasn't sluggish, but it was one heck of a lot slower turning than the 4m that I flew static a couple of weeks ago. Of course this was on the standard bar.

You know what I think? I think I need me one of those longer bars you've been gushing about. I really do!

Actually, for the very first time having the smaller bar was fine as it was probably a good thing slowing things down a bit. The kite most certainly behaved differently than the Peak2 I've been doing most of my buggying with lately. Not different in a bad way, but these are certainly two very different kites. I look forward to mastering the craft of propulsion with all of my NPWs.




SS kites:
Born-Kite RaceStar+ (3.0m)
Born-Kite RaceStar (5.0m, 7.0m, 9.0m, 11.0m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-4 (2.5m)
Born-Kite NasaStar-3 (3.2m)

Buggy:
Hybrid - nose & tail PL BF+ with wide rear axle; midsection VTT rail & seat kit; two sets of Sysmic rims (BigFoots and 6-ply trailer tires); home-brewed AQR

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[*] posted on 7-18-2015 at 07:51 PM


Yeah Sean. "IF" I had money falling out of my arse, I would more than likely buy a stripped large Navigator bar. 55-65cm. Those are so cool to change bar lengths on the fly. My 07bar is 65cm, and the Regular bars are 55cm. A couple days at JIBE this year, we had some funky side shore winds. This meant no 4 mile runs down the beach. This did mean a million 150 yard short side runs. The ocean and dunes come up pretty fast buggying that direction. I think the extra turn speed will be great in close quarters.

Yes Steve. The 55cm production bar that come with our Stars are more than capable of flying all sizes as pointed out by myself and others. I'm not telling everyone to rush out and buy a new bar. If it works well for you now, then keep rockin' it! I just like the extra snap on the larger size NS2 now.




Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0



http://hint.fm/wind/

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ssayre




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[*] posted on 7-18-2015 at 07:59 PM


it's funny, I'm mesmerized by the pictures of the your ns2's. They look great. It's funny because I see them in person all the time and still like seeing pictures. :D

They make for great pictures because the way the light shines through them.
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