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Randy


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[*] posted on 6-4-2015 at 12:38 PM
My Water Kite (NPW)


Here is the latest installment of my efforts to make use of my kites on the water. This time I'm flying a NPW 9b off the handles on a SUP type board. The kite is only 2 meters but pulls pretty good. Today was pretty windy for a while, but dropped off. Hard to paddle upwind, but I'm getting better at it. Going downwind is, of course, quite easy. When the wind blows from the west I can go to the nearby river, and get a free ride upwind (thanks to the current) and then use the kite to go downwind. I can actually sail a bit to one side, and think I'm getting better at that. Flying a NPW off the handles solves a whole lot of problems esp. launch and recovery. This was the first NPW I've made with cascade bridles - which I think helped a lot in terms of reducing tangling problems. I tried a few times before with conventional lines and was very hard to keep them untangled.





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[*] posted on 6-4-2015 at 04:33 PM


That is really great Randy!

Looks like it was pulling you right along...I thought I saw a wake!!:P

good stuff, makes me think I could try this on water here...




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My stuff:
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[*] posted on 6-4-2015 at 05:39 PM


When no-one was looking you pulled the kite out of your jacket. :D The theme tune to OO7 should have been playing.
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[*] posted on 6-6-2015 at 04:46 AM


Quote: Originally posted by 1oldkid  
That is really great Randy!

Looks like it was pulling you right along...I thought I saw a wake!!:P

good stuff, makes me think I could try this on water here...


Thanks - not sure if that was a wake or a wave I was sailing over the top of.

As for trying it yourself - go for it. If you do you, check to see if you can hold your kite a little above the ground when flying off the bridles. If not you may want to consider building a smaller one. I limited the size on mine so that I would not have problems launching it from a standing position (though I did launch when I was on my knees so that may not be critical). I used the light (cheap) plastic tarp material because it is almost impossible to keep the kite dry (and I'm cheap, as everyone around here has probably figured out by now). Ripstop will soak up water quickly, though if there is a enough wind it will dry out in a few minutes, but you will be drifting downwind when that happens. I may be able to get away with a bigger kite, so I'll probably start working on one ~3.0. BTW - I used the 9b plans because the bridle length is shortest of any NPW per sq. meter of kite size (and all of its other good flying qualities.)





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[*] posted on 6-6-2015 at 07:54 AM


good stuff Randy, innovation supreme! i always go low buck on protos, it becomes obvious what deserves more.

nice aircraft carrier you're riding ! chattahoochee ?




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[*] posted on 6-6-2015 at 08:32 AM


Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER  
good stuff Randy, innovation supreme! i always go low buck on protos, it becomes obvious what deserves more.

nice aircraft carrier you're riding ! chattahoochee ?



Thanks. I think I'll call this "Kite Barging." That was on Lake Lanier - wind was due east. If we could ever get a decent westerly I am really anxious to try it on the Hooch. Its 5 minutes from my house and the current flows opposite the wind so you get an easy paddle upwind and can kite back downwind. Done it a few times already with smaller kites.




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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 10:11 AM


Tried again today wind was less than the last 2 times out at the lake. Used quads today and it works much better - had a lot of trouble with backstalls before, but the quads cured that, despite much weaker winds. @1oldkid - if you try it don't even both with dual - go right to quad.







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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 10:31 AM


Randy, I will be getting a NASA Star 3 2.5 M in a couple of weeks. Do you think this would be possible if flown off quad handles right off its bridle lines? I'm aware of the waterlogging issue with the material, but other than that? Just curious, as my wife wants to get into SUP with me this summer and this might be a cool way to combine two of the loves in my life. Thanks, Steve.



Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 03:15 PM


Very cool. I was thinking about trying this out myself a few months ago but wasn't sure how it would play out.

I SUP to a break about 3/4 mile to surf. Usually when I'm done, a west wind blows which would take me back to where I came. Most of my SUP's are between 30-31" inches in width so it will be interesting. Got a NPW 3m (I think) so I might have to give it a try.

Thanks for showing us that it can be done :D




Flexifoil Blurr 2.5, Ozone Cult 3.5, Nasa Star 3 4.0 Ozone Yakuza 4.0, PL Reactor 4.9, JoJo RM+ 5.0, Ozone Method 5.0, Ozone Yakuza 6.0, Flexifoil Blade IV 6.5, Nasa Star 3 7.0, PL Vapor 7.8, JoJo RX 8.0 (in route), Flexifoil Blade VIP 8.5, PL Vapor 9.4, Ozone Yakuza 10.0, PL Reactor II 10.8, PL Vapor 16.1, PL Venom II 13, PL Charger 15, 19, Flysurfer Unity 12, Flysurfer Pulse 2 14, Flysurfer Speed 2 SA 19, Flysurfer Speed 3 21, MBS Comp 95 landboard, PL Folding buggy, PL XR+ buggy, Slingshot LFT, Lots of surfboards
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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 03:25 PM


Randy - as mentioned previously I do hope to try some wind propulsion on a SUP with a NASA Star 3 2.5M run straight off of quad handles. If that doesn't work I might be interested in trying to construct a kite along the lines of yours.

In one of your earlier posts in this great thread you said:

BTW - I used the 9b plans because the bridle length is shortest of any NPW per sq. meter of kite size (and all of its other good flying qualities.)

Where might I secure plans such as these online? Thanks in advance for the guidance! Steve




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 03:33 PM


Thanks for the tips Randy!
And I would choose different words, not "cheap"...
Creative, frugal, innovative are a few that come to mind when folks want to do things and also work within a budget, and they roll up their sleeves and make something useful.

Keep on doin' what you do man, your inspiring to several of us here! :thumbup:




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My stuff:
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HQ Symphony 2.2m
Beamer 3.6m
Pro Foil 2.5, 4.5m
JoJo 6m
Montana 7m
Flysurfer 19m Speed 2 SA

Flexi bug
Several pair of kite skis

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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 04:18 PM


Swesting -As for the NS3 2.5 M it probably would work pretty well if you can keep it dry. I would fly it off the handles for sure. It really shouldn't hurt it to get wet, and it probably wouldn't take long to dry it out enough to fly after it got wet. It can be a problem if part of it gets wet because that can mess up how it flies for a while.

I used some small foils and got them completely waterlogged and they dried out pretty quick on a windy day (~15 mph), though a lot longer if not so windy. The main problem is just that it takes time to do it. One issue is to check and see if you can launch it standing still and hold it a little above the ground since you really would need to launch it from the deck of the SUP. You could launch from land then get on the SUP if you have a suitable launch and someone to help you.

Go to kiteplans.org and get Tom White's NPW9b calculator if you are thinking of building one. Its the best plans available. You might look at the Freedom 2000 web page though for help on the bridling. Cascade bridles are the way to go but Tom's plans are not that easy to understand if you have never done the whole deal where you loop hollow dacron line into itself. (This was the first cascade I've done after building about 20 NPW's of various types.)

Another option might be to see if Susan (kitemaker4) could build you one. She does excellent work and is very reasonable on prices.




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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 04:30 PM


Here's a video of Steffan using his NS2 7.0 on the water. Note that he is planning, rather than trying sail in displacement mode (like I'm doing) so he is needing a lot more power, but its pretty cool - maybe eventually I can get there, but I'm working on this first.



Here's one where he is using an SUP and a NS2. I would try that except that you are pretty much doomed if the kite gets in the water unless you can reluanch which is why I'm using no lines. It will naturally take more wind, and I'm going to build a bigger kite (and he's a big guy), but I don't think I need one that big, though it may limit me to downwinders since it takes a lot more power to go across the wind. But this is a work in progress.





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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 04:32 PM


Randy. - thanks a million! I so truly appreciate the PKF family. :thumbup:

I will pursue the sites you have suggested. I like your idea of using "creative, frugal and innovative" kite material. I have an old tarp in my garage made out of just such material. No, I wouldn't plan to use my tarp, but the second I read your postings I thought of that old friend that has been faithfully serving many needs spanning parts of 6 decades. I actually used that old friend as a sail once on Lake George in NY. We lashed together two aluminum canoes and made a catamaran of sorts, keel, rudder, mast and all. It sailed pretty well!:D




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 6-7-2015 at 04:40 PM


I would use the cheap Dollar Tree tarp - if weighs about 4.5 ounces for a 4 by 6 piece (2.1 sq. m) That is about the same as the cheap ripstop I can get locally. It is less than 5 mill, I think. Heavier tarps (even 5 mill) weight more. You might also look into Tyvek - used in homebuilding. My "frugal" tarp has held up really well - never really had the material fail and it is actually a ripstop type of material. You can hot cut it and spot weld it just like ripstop nylon. I find it easier to sew than regular ripstop nylon. (When I started this I didn't know how to sew at all and made my first NPW kite with duct tape and tarp. Since then I've learned how to sew and have made kites from both kinds of materials.)



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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 05:07 PM


Today we did get a westerly so I hit the river. Was pretty sketchy for the first 1.5 hour then did pick up. Didn't really get the best footage due to batteries going down in the GoPro, but this gives a little bit of an idea. The upwind/downstream downwind/upstream thing works pretty well, as I'd hoped though winds at the river are always highly variable - including deep lulls where I just have to park the kite on the deck.







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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 06:53 PM


Kitebarging the Kitahoochee! :D



Life's too short to be anything but happy!

My stuff:
Flexifoil 1.2m Sting
HQ Symphony 2.2m
Beamer 3.6m
Pro Foil 2.5, 4.5m
JoJo 6m
Montana 7m
Flysurfer 19m Speed 2 SA

Flexi bug
Several pair of kite skis

‘There are two types of education: One should teach us how to make a living, and the other should teach us how to live.’ - John Adams

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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 06:59 PM


Randy, brother, please buy the monohull.
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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 07:21 PM


yeah man, that joker is lake/hooch ready!



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[*] posted on 6-8-2015 at 07:57 PM


Nice new video Randy! Looks like fun out there. Good tune to boot. BTW, Susan and I have done some U2U back and forth. Let's see what develops! Thanks for the inspiration. :P



Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 6-9-2015 at 04:44 AM


@swesting - btw - I'm only 5'5" - so if you are taller you could probably get away with bigger kite. I'm going to try something around 2.75-3, which may be the limit on how big I can go for launching from the deck.

@Redsky - it took me ages to get down from about 10 windsurf boards to 6. Don't have any room for a monohull.




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[*] posted on 6-9-2015 at 04:52 AM


Randy - I'm 6 ft. tall and around 200-210 lbs. What size NPW made of the material we've been discussing would you recommend for SUP propulsion?



Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 6-9-2015 at 08:32 AM


I wouldn't go too big to start. Getting a bigger kite won't necessarily help lower the wind limit much because as it pulls you downwind, you lose apparent wind and it will sink. A bigger kite will pull you a little faster, but that just works against the apparent wind that much more.

Now, once you have enough wind - a bigger kite will pull you somewhat faster. Realize once you are going hull speed (~5 mph for a SUP) it gets a lot harder to go faster - can be done, but it will take more wind and the water will get choppy and staying on the thing will get harder (but it will be pretty fun to find out how that works). I am pretty sure that I can go faster with a kite than I can paddle an SUP, so I'm happy with that, but would always like to go faster too.

By the numbers - I know a 2.0 works for me. At your size (15 cm taller) you could go to 2.5 pretty easily. I think a 2.5 will work for me - so probably you could go to 3.0 I hope a 3.0 might work for me, but I don't know if it will, so.......

To start - 2.5-3.0 but I wouldn't get greedy. You can always get a bigger kite. You also mentioned something about your wife wanting to SUP. Should she be interested in trying the kite, her size would come into play also.




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[*] posted on 6-9-2015 at 08:53 AM


Randy - all good points.... thanks!

I've got a NASA Star 3 in the 2.5 M size on route out of Germany. As this would be somewhat similar in shape and dimensions as we are discussing I'm thinking I will be able to get a judgement feel from that kite on land, even if the bridles are longer (they certainly look longer than yours) and the fabric of course will be different.

Happy sailing! :singing:




Kites:
Born-Kite LongStar-2 (3.5m, 5.5m, 7.5m, 9.5m, 12.5m);
Born-Kite NASA Star-3 (1.5m, 2.5m, 3.2m, 4.0m; z-bridled for handle flying)

Buggy:
Peter Lynn Bigfoot+ modified with VTT rail & seat kit (a seriously great performance upgrade), two sets of Sysmic rims (one set with BigFoot slicks for the "beach" of the Great Salt Lake and the other with 6-ply trailer tires for the Ivanpah playa), and BigKidKites AQR (because it keeps me in the bug and in my marriage)

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[*] posted on 6-13-2015 at 03:37 PM


Made it out today to the lake. Not a lot of wind ~reported to be 10, though I think it was usually less, but I found some puffs to give me a few good rides. Lots of boat traffic though and hot weather. But a nice day to continue my science projects. BTW - may not be obvious from this, but I am getting a handle on steering. I think I can go at least 20 degrees off the wind in either direction. Not great but its a start. Had to steer away from some rocks sticking out from shore.





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[*] posted on 6-13-2015 at 04:11 PM


Hey Randy, it seems like you've been getting some decent breezes over by Lanier, is there anywhere suitable for buggying over there?

Yesterday was kind of a bust... One good long gust got me moving then the rain came. Good call for you to stay home.




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[*] posted on 6-13-2015 at 04:40 PM


Spencer - Saw your post about yesterday. Hopefully your kite will dry out quickly.

I don't know of any good fields over by Lanier. (There are some large ones in the area, but none are really flat enough from what I can see and most are surrounded by trees.) There is the small parking lot I use for my landboard, but the parks too full for that now. I'll keep my eyes open though. I've been looking for a while, but so far nothing good.

I actually went to the Azalea park on the river yesterday (which is real close to my house) and it looked promising so I went out. After paddling upwind for half a mile the wind pretty much quit. Finally a few puffs came up and I made it back to the launch and quit. Started to rain and I heard thunder on the way home. Yesterday was just not our day. Today was better but only for about an hour or two this morning at the lake.

I don't know what the wind is like south of town, but its my recollection that there is pretty large grass field used for parking at Atlanta Motor Speedway, and I think the lot is fairly flat and level. Might be worth checking into. (There's a huge parking lot too, but I don't think that's what you are looking for.)

BTW - if you spot any places for longboarding let me know. I've tried that a few times now and that takes very little wind and not much space. I've got a spare longboard if you can find a place. Perfect for one your NS3's off the handle/bar.




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[*] posted on 6-13-2015 at 04:52 PM


Spencer - just remembered - on the east side of GA 400 at exit 13 is a new shopping center. Just south of that is rather large, fairly flat field. It really huge. I drove by it last week and it has a pretty tall grass (like 2ft+) however they do mow it on occasion, since I've seen it in much better shape. It might be worth checking into and finding out who owns it, etc. I think you can see it on a Sat. photo.



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[*] posted on 6-14-2015 at 04:52 AM


Thanks Randy... After the rain passed I spread it out and wiped it down with a towel... after a little bit it was dry. I was at the fairgrounds rather than Swift Cantrell.... It was good to get out in the buggy and I'm getting used to the Nasa's but it being summer probably means I'll just have to wait till fall :no:

I was wondering if there was better wind by the lake, like maybe the lake itself had some effect on the quality of wind. It may do something to it, but its of no consequence if there's no where to buggy nearby. I'm pretty satisfied with the riding spots I've found, just not so much with the wind... thought there might be something better by the lake.




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In real life they call me "Spencer"

Flying-- Flysurfer: 6m Peak 1 (A Minty Fresh generous gift) & 12m Peak 2 (The gnat fart catcher)
Riding-- VTT Stinger-XR Hybrid & PL XR Frankenbuggy
Current PB-- 28.5 mph,... MAN THAT'S FAST!!!
JWC-- Founding member and self appointed president

Allow yourself to be moved by that which cannot be seen.

She blogs about scrapbooking,... what a nerd.
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[*] posted on 6-14-2015 at 06:26 AM


You have a much longer fetch (distance to obstructions) depending on where you are on the lake, but even the rather sketchy spots are probably better than most places on land. So wind quality is better. Another nice thing about water - you can see where the wind is and when a gust is coming by looking at the water.



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