Power Kite Forum
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Safe flying advice
povlhp




Posts: 34
Registered: 3-25-2015
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 03:00 AM
Safe flying advice


Having seen many failed jumps (intentional and unintentional) on youtube, I am looking for a bit of advice as a newbie.

My goal is to avoid unintended jumps/launches into space, and if it happens, know what to do to ride it out the best possible way.

To create a jump, you will probably have to get the kite up high, most instructions I have seen says fly 45-60 degree to wind and run (to get more speed), and then turn upwind for the lift. But I have seen jumps/crashes where the kite was not nearly overhead, and right overhead the kite will be out of the power zone (unless you are in the air, and causing fast vertical speed towards the ground). So how do I avoid those unintended jumps ? Don't turn the kite upwards in the vertical center of the power zone ?

If I get airborne, what will give me the best landing ?Some of the beginners jump guides says to turn the kite to the side again. But this will probably decrease lift, and cause a harder crash ? Should I turn or not ? Should I ride it out on front lines, or try to create more drag/lift by applying brakes ? Or will this kill the lift completely on a Hornet III or Beamer V ?

If I move forward, I can use the Parachute Landing Fall, which is efficient up to about 15 ft in my experience, but going backwards, landing is more complicated.

Had a close call when doing a low misjudged hook-turn with a parachute in 35 mph wind, what usually costs at least 20-30+ fractured bones, but my knowledge made me do the right things the last second or two. So I walked away (but became very sore as whole right side of body started to swell). So I know knowledge is important in that situation you do not expect to happen.




Kites: HQ Symphony Beach III 1.3, HQ Symphony Pro 2.2, 200x70cm no-name, Peter Lynn Hornet III 3.0m2, Peter Lynn Uniq Quad 1.5m2, PL Uniq Play 1.0.
Non-power: Std + Full vented Freilein Windrider X (Rev style quads), Freilen Transeye. ITW Triton, some chinese SLK
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ssayre




Posts: 3513
Registered: 8-15-2013
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 04:16 AM


Your over thinking it, that's ok, i did that too. Most unintentional jumps or jumps that go wrong are because people chose to fly in the wrong conditions and were not experienced enough. Just start off in manageable wind and just let go if you get overpowered (assuming your flying a 4 line fixed bridle foil?)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
RedSky


Avatar


Posts: 1212
Registered: 9-7-2009
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 07:39 AM


To avoid an accidental lofting it is suggested that you do not keep your kite at the zenith in changeable wind conditions. The chances of an unintentional lofting are most likely to occur in gusty wind, squalls or a sudden updraft if flying at the edge of a hill.

This is why you should always check the weather forecast before heading out and fly a kite size to match any expected gusts rather than the lulls.

Most importantly, avoid losing concentration. It is not safe to assume that just because the kite is at the zenith that it is safe to divert your eyes and have a conversation with the person next to you. This is Mother natures favorite part. You won't notice that your kite has fallen a little way back down the center of the window but you are now primed not just for a lofting but a superman. A superman is where you will be carrying much forward speed.

You can ride out all but the strongest gusts by keeping your kite flying down low at the edge of the window.
If you are lofted vertically then ride it out by keeping the kite at full power and at the zenith. If the beginners guide suggests some movement in the kite while airborne then this may increase lift as you are forcing airflow over the wing. However I feel this might be too much information for a beginner and I don't think a beginner would have the skills necessary to pull it off anyway.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
PHREERIDER


Avatar


Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline

Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!

[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 09:09 AM


your judgement of conditions is the first safety factor.

study the weather, smooth steady 10-15mph plenty to learn a bunch from.

skill and timing with more practice will come and you will know whats good and what contains pain.

keep flying man




TEAM RIDER for Coastal Wind Sports

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/

VIDEOS for your entertainment while you wait.

http://vimeo.com/user4948152/videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/goldendmd?feature=mhsn
View user's profile View All Posts By User
abkayak


Avatar


Posts: 2009
Registered: 1-7-2012
Location: a.b. NY
Member Is Offline

Mood: at least i'm enjoying the ride

[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 11:10 AM


always know what's happening behind you w/the weather, don't let it sneak up on you
It's all about being a pilot..not just flying a kite




US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Lobster Foil/ 3.5m Bullet/ 4m Buster/ 4m RMSD 2 line Special/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ MBS Core 8&16/ Flexboard Haise/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot
View user's profile View All Posts By User
povlhp




Posts: 34
Registered: 3-25-2015
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 01:00 PM


Stable wind is 8 kts gusting to 16 kts. We always has gusts twice the average wind speed around here. A vented rev works fine. The std is tricky.



Kites: HQ Symphony Beach III 1.3, HQ Symphony Pro 2.2, 200x70cm no-name, Peter Lynn Hornet III 3.0m2, Peter Lynn Uniq Quad 1.5m2, PL Uniq Play 1.0.
Non-power: Std + Full vented Freilein Windrider X (Rev style quads), Freilen Transeye. ITW Triton, some chinese SLK
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ssayre




Posts: 3513
Registered: 8-15-2013
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 01:44 PM


Have you tried the hornet yet? The advice will probably make more sense once you get out and fly a couple times.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bladerunner


Avatar


Posts: 9446
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 03:29 PM


I am not sure why nobody has mentioned that a 3m kite is NOT a jumping kite at all. General rule of thumb is that you want a minimum of 5m. Even 5m is too small to offer up any float IMHO. Any kite will lift you in the right wind if you " send it ".

The instructions were referring to re-directing your kite in order to keep it moving + overhead. If your kite is small it will fly / turn fast so getting the re-direct down ( without looking at the kite ) is even more important. A small canopy will only continue to lift you if you keep it moving FAST + overhead and that is very difficult while dangling above the ground.

I have always struggled with my timing jumping using FB kites. The smallest kite I consider it with is my 7m depower. I much prefer jumping with my 15 and 18m kites. Even if my timing is off the large canopy is forgiving. Flysurfer says " if you find yourself lofted, relax. You are riding under a paraglider." Or something like that but they are referring to larger depower kites and not 3m fixed bridles.

Playing around with jumping using a 3m kite is a recipe for disaster. Eventually you are certain to get hit by a gust and get sent MUCH higher than you expected. Unless you are a way better pilot than I am you will come crashing down hard!

Folks are right on about not resting with the kite overhead. Practice resting with it off to one side. Lower is always safer. You will get lifted when your kite moves fast overhead so avoid doing that on purpose and if you feel it coming on by accident you have 1/10th of a second ( or less ) to decide if you want to go with it or let it go to safety

Sorry that I had to tell you that you have the wrong kite for jumping but it really is. GREAT kite for learning but if you want to jump you really need to buy something bigger + with more lift designed in. Consider Peter Lynn Twister or Flexifoil Blade. 6.5m or so. Even if the Beamer you mention is bigger than 3m it is not designed for jumping.

Another survival technique once lofted is to consider a " kite Loop ". WAY above my skill level but it can be used to create power + lose elevation depending on the situation.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
povlhp




Posts: 34
Registered: 3-25-2015
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 08:34 PM


As I wrote, I do not plan on jumping with the hornet. I want to avoid it. But I have unintended jumps / supermans and want to avoid it or know what to do if I get airborne. Better to try something than just waiting disaster. I know I will try something and not freeze up.

I will try the hornet this weekend. In 8 gusting to 16 kts. Will keep it away from the "resting" position in zenith. With my 1.4 sqm toy kite I never had any problems even in twice the wind. But I do respect the real power kite. Not sure if double size is twice or four times the pull?




Kites: HQ Symphony Beach III 1.3, HQ Symphony Pro 2.2, 200x70cm no-name, Peter Lynn Hornet III 3.0m2, Peter Lynn Uniq Quad 1.5m2, PL Uniq Play 1.0.
Non-power: Std + Full vented Freilein Windrider X (Rev style quads), Freilen Transeye. ITW Triton, some chinese SLK
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IFlyKites


Avatar


Posts: 294
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-15-2015 at 09:14 PM


Quote: Originally posted by povlhp  
As I wrote, I do not plan on jumping with the hornet. I want to avoid it. But I have unintended jumps / supermans and want to avoid it or know what to do if I get airborne. Better to try something than just waiting disaster. I know I will try something and not freeze up.

I will try the hornet this weekend. In 8 gusting to 16 kts. Will keep it away from the "resting" position in zenith. With my 1.4 sqm toy kite I never had any problems even in twice the wind. But I do respect the real power kite. Not sure if double size is twice or four times the pull?


If you want to avoid unintended jumps/supermans I suggest not flying in high winds. You mentioned 16 knot winds (4-5 bft) You should be fine but do be cautious. Take some kite killers with you to be safe.

Hopefully you understand that you shouldn't launch the kite down-wind rather always launch from the side of the wind window when in high winds. That will help avoid supermaning.

Stay safe and have fun.

Cheers, Ari
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Suds after thuds


Avatar


Posts: 252
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline

Mood: island time

[*] posted on 4-16-2015 at 02:05 PM


Upper twenties on the gusts was too much--real janky wind. Conditions made me land the kite a bunch; especially after I had an unexpected boost when I tried to scrub some speed by heading up hard, landed soft with a healthy thump and realized later that I'd pulled my first new-school jump. Definitely not used to being ripped off the ground like that, yet. Took me about 3m up and 30m over ground. I stopped practicing jump transitions after that.

Later in the day I had another interesting equipment malfunction. The nut holding my left foot strap popped off while I was doing a speed run on some pavement. Luckily I was about to jibe and had moved to the grassy edge, so I didn't get and road rash. Even better I got to ask a bunchof skaters ripping kick flips on their boards if they had a "Mutter" with them. (a Nut is called a mother in german) That was a good laugh. Then a kiter hooked me up with a cinch strap to get me rolling again. All in all a fun day.





Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m

Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PHREERIDER


Avatar


Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline

Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!

[*] posted on 4-16-2015 at 02:57 PM


cool data.

once speed control is established, jumping can be controlled. once canopy speed is in "firing" range it will pop. So using your(rider) speed control, canopy speed control and window position make all this happen. the apparent wind additive speed AND power of kiting in a dynamic system, IS the juice that you want to control. either by using it or avoiding it all by PILOT control.

smooth steady trans. all nice and controlled , BUT if you start directing the kite hard and fast...it will return the favor and POP where ever it is in the window. hopefully overhead ! kinda where i like it.




TEAM RIDER for Coastal Wind Sports

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/

VIDEOS for your entertainment while you wait.

http://vimeo.com/user4948152/videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/goldendmd?feature=mhsn
View user's profile View All Posts By User
povlhp




Posts: 34
Registered: 3-25-2015
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-17-2015 at 09:03 AM


Out on first session with my PL Hornet III 3.0. Wind was 10 gusting to 18 kts. Took off 45 degrees off wind. Well, not as hard as I had expected. Been flying rev style quads, so I guess I hang in a bit on the brakes most of the time. Had some good pull at times and a few hard kite impacts when I failed to give slack lines fast enough. I had to lean back and take a few steps once in a while, but was in control more or less all the time. But a good workout.
Reverse launch not much of a problem. Failed to find the tight slow turn to untangle lines. When I tried I ended up with too much brake and lost air pressure in one side.
But fun.




Kites: HQ Symphony Beach III 1.3, HQ Symphony Pro 2.2, 200x70cm no-name, Peter Lynn Hornet III 3.0m2, Peter Lynn Uniq Quad 1.5m2, PL Uniq Play 1.0.
Non-power: Std + Full vented Freilein Windrider X (Rev style quads), Freilen Transeye. ITW Triton, some chinese SLK
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ssayre




Posts: 3513
Registered: 8-15-2013
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-17-2015 at 03:31 PM


Perfect! Keep at it. It's all about anticipation of when kite will be in most powerful part of window.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bladerunner


Avatar


Posts: 9446
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-17-2015 at 04:30 PM


I am not sure how I thought you were out to try and jump.

Now that I better understand your goals a bit of what I said still applies. If you do end up lofted, try and keep the kite moving but over head by redirecting it. If you end up supermaned you are screwed. Sounds like you know the 4 point and roll method from skydiving. Mostly, I try and avoid winds that might do that to me on a 3m.

Your Rev background will be a giant boost in mastering FB. Knowing break control makes most Rev' pilots naturals at FB. As you seem to understand brakes do similar things but FB like to fly on the front lines. Try combining a bit less brake with a bit more push pull on your turns / loops.

Nice tracks Sud's, Was that with my old 15m ?





Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Suds after thuds


Avatar


Posts: 252
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline

Mood: island time

[*] posted on 4-18-2015 at 06:34 AM


Um Blade, this is a safe flying thread, no way I'd put up the charger in 15-28knots on land! I was using my Montana 9.5m. At the end of the session I thought I'd've liked a 6m to keep me landing in the lulls rather than in the gusts.

The only time I was accidentally picked up by my FB 4m was by tightly looping it from 12, inadvertently.




Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m

Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bladerunner


Avatar


Posts: 9446
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 4-18-2015 at 10:17 AM


Naturally I am not out to promote unsafe flying.

Around here ( clean wind ) my 15m Synergy is just starting to fire on all cylinders at 15kts. Right about the time others are moving down from 5m to 3 or 4. 28 is too much for me but Ripsession used to rock that arc in those wind speeds.

While I don't have much experience with 9.5m foils I would have thought my Syn' would have a similar top end? Again, since I am more familiar being under an arc I would much prefer to find myself overpowered and potentially lofted on one than a small foil. Depower or FB. When the wind is so strong I am just " survival kiting " I go to my almost no lift 2.5m Profoil.




Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Suds after thuds


Avatar


Posts: 252
Registered: 3-19-2012
Location: Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline

Mood: island time

[*] posted on 4-19-2015 at 03:59 AM


They both top out at about 25, but the Charger pulls harder with a lot more grunt and lift. Even though a tip on the M6 often collapses when there's a dramatic wind shift, I still like it best and have flown it the most. It's quick and responsive.



Scout II 4m
Montana VI 9.5m
Matrix 15m
F-arcs 1200 & 1600
Pulse 13m
Ozone Reo 8m
LF Envy 12m

Ground Industries Patrol 106
12.5" DOOM wheels
Crazyfly Shox 136 x42
North Nugget TT 5'2"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Dayhiker


Avatar


Posts: 74
Registered: 3-2-2014
Location: Highlands of Virginia
Member Is Offline

Mood: "I live back in the woods, you see... A woman & the kids, & the dogs & me" Bocephus

[*] posted on 4-19-2015 at 04:39 AM


I love this stuff, the answers are so far beyond my experience that it makes me feel like a total newbie with kites. I will continue exploring the world of power kites with the fixed bridle kites I currently have keeping this expert advice in mind. Thanks again y'all, SHBKF
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top

Hosted by: Mad Moose Hosting