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Author: Subject: should I go depower or fixed bridle?
joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-20-2014 at 04:41 AM
should I go depower or fixed bridle?


Hi everyone.

I've started kite landboarding just a few weeks ago, but I've been static flying kites for quite some time.

I have a ozone octane 5.0 sqm. I weigh a lot, about 242 lbs, my height is 6' 2". We usually have low gusty winds here, about 8-12 knots. It's not much for that kite and I think I have not power enough to get me moving on a mountainboard on soft surface, especially when I go a little uphill.

I have two options here: to go with a bigger depower kite, spending a lot of money :( or go with a more powerful fixed bridle kite, which is a more cheaper option :duh:

For the last option, fixed bridle, I was thinking about an intermediate kite, with a higer aspect ratio than the ozone octane. Maybe the PKD century II 6.0 sqm. I've been watching a video on youtube about this kite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D84WAN3GGcY flying it static. Or maybe the well known Peter Lynn Twister IIR 7.7 sqm

Do you think it would it be too much power for me flying it in low winds (8-14 knots)? I'm afraid of it taking me off the ground, because I don't wanna jump (yet).

I usually watch a lot of videos with high performance fixed bridle kites buggying, but not so much doing mountainboard kiting. is it because these sort of kites are not appropriate for mountainboards? Will it pull me off the board in a gust of wind?

I've posted this video before, but this is me now. Be aware that I'm just starting..... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LfAu6NraAY

Thank you in advance for your help.
Regards!
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B-Roc


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[*] posted on 9-20-2014 at 05:06 AM


You weigh almost 100 pounds more than me. I don't think the 6 m is going to be a big enough jump for you. I would be looking at something more in the 7 to 9 m range if I were you. But that is going to be a huge jump in power for someone just starting out. I would strongly consider A used 12 to 14 metered depower but that requires a harness too. How clean are the winds where you fly and how large the space? Depowers work better in cleaner air. FBs can be better in tight spaces.



Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
Rides: Ground Industries
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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-20-2014 at 05:39 AM


There's the PKD Century II in 8.0 sqm also. You can wath a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGdij9eGQ5Y
Keep in mind that I'm on a mountainboard, not on a buggy. That kite seems quite powerful.

Sometimes I use a harness with a Ozone Turbo Bar and my Ozone Octane, but I'm a bit scared of attaching me to a much more powerful fixed bridle kite.

Where I live, the winds are usually low (8-14 knots) and gusty conditions. I've got not much space. There are trees around. I'm searching for a better place also.





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B-Roc


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[*] posted on 9-20-2014 at 05:54 AM


I also landboard and when I flew fixed bridal kites only I had a quiver ranging in size from 1.7 m to 8.5m. You sometimes need more power on the land bored because you're constantly skidding, sliding and leaning back if you're technique is good. Powered to slightly overpowered is much better than underpowered on the land board. Large depowers respond less favorably to swirling winds then smaller fixed bridle kites of equal power.



Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
Rides: Ground Industries
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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-20-2014 at 06:28 AM


My bigger concern is taking a too big step.

Keep in mind that I'm just not growing in size from 5.0 to 8.0 sqm. I'm switching from a lower to a higher aspect ratio kite. I've read that these sort of kites are less stable and move very fast in the air, generating a lot of traction. Anyway, I've never flown one of these. Do they generate much lift power? I don't want to jump :o

Seems like the PKD Century 8.0 sqm is an affordable option for me.

Another option is the Peter Lynn Twister IIR 7.7 sqm.

Thanks again.
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BigMikesKites


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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 04:36 AM


You can certainly use a fixed bridle, but if you notice the videos, most of the successful landboarders are hooked in with depower. Its an easier ride as the pull is lower on your body than your arms and that helps keep you in better balance, especially with gusts. With that being said, I cant landboard anyway and I can only relate what my customers have told me over the years. It does make a difference. I've tried it both with DePower and Fixed and fixed was easier in a small park as you need to turn more often. But I fell on my face more too. I think it is a learning curve that I did not spend enough time on.



Mike
Owner Big Mike's Kites
http://www.BigMikesKites.com

Kites: Most of them
Buggy: VTT BLACK WIDOW...The best
Peter Lynn XR+ w VTT Rail Kit
Landboard: Not a chance
Water: still trying
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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 07:22 AM


Yes, of course, a lot of people seems to be using depower. Anyway, fixed bridle is a cheaper option right now that I'm just starting off and I don't know if I will take this hobby for very long and invest in a depower seems a bit risky right now.

The weather conditions here are a little frustrating. For example, today, Sunday, we have 5-7 knots...... Definitely, with the Ozone Octane 5.0 sqm I go underpowered.

I have a Ozone Turbo Bar and a harness. So I can hook myself to the kite. I don't need to hold a big kite with my arms.

As B-Roc recommended me before, probably it's better to go overpowered than underpowered on a land board. When you are underpowered you have to move the kite through the wind window to generate pull enough resulting in jerks while cruising if you slow down between one pull and another. Maybe, if I were just a little overpowered, I could keep the kite quite still in the sky leaning my body backwards and cruising smoothly.

I've been watching a video of two people flying in low winds. Take a look at the one with the Peter Lynn Twister 7.7 sqm. It seems to ride quite smoothly. That's all I wanna be able to do ;)

Thank you all for your advices. I really appreciate it.

Regards.
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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 07:42 AM


Sorry, I've forgotten to post the video link :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuG5ddcsVyE
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B-Roc


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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 08:38 AM


It really doesn't matter which kite which person is flying in what video. The reason they're all doing well is because they are all properly powered for their conditions and comfortable with the kites they are flying. You just have to find which kites make you comfortable in your conditions and you too will be able to fly and ride like the people in the videos.



Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
Rides: Ground Industries
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Bladerunner


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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 08:40 AM


The Twister will be much less forgiving. The guy is trying to do so but notice he is using it as a jumping kite. That is what it is designed for.

I suspect the Twister won't take to the Turbo bar? I know my 7.7 was a wet rag on a standard bar. The Twister being so lifty might be a bit of a handful to be learning on in Janky winds?

You should seriously consider the 10m Apex III for $450 on here. I think that is comparable to a new Twister in cost?






Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 09:13 AM


The trouble here is your surface. Your kites would work fine if on a hard packed beach. For the most part, your depower slope guy is riding on grass with its high rolling resistance. The Twister is on smooth tarmac. That should tell you all you need to know.

Depower kites and landboarding go together like a horse and carriage. You say you may not take up this hobby, so you do not want to commit the funds. Trouble is that you'll end up judging landboarding based on using the wrong equipment and then quit without ever knowing how good it can be. Fixed bridle can and does work but I can't see it happening for you on that surface.

High aspect kites: Generate more power through the window, go upwind at a better angle and generate less drag at high speeds, that's IF you're on a nice smooth surface. Do these qualities in a kite sound like they'll give you any advantage on your surface at your low speeds ?

Once your high aspect kite blasts through the window it will sit at the far edge where there's less power than your low aspect kite and it will be less stable too. I don't think your surface lends itself to high aspect and I doubt you'll get any benefit from it. You'd be better off with a lower aspect kite which will have low end grunt to get you moving and less likely to fold in gusts.

I'd be looking around for an 8.5m Blade, its a great light wind kite with plenty of grunt or bite the bullet and go depower.







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B-Roc


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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 02:09 PM


Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
You'd be better off with a lower aspect kite which will have low end grunt to get you moving and less likely to fold in gusts.

I'd be looking around for an 8.5m Blade, its a great light wind kite with plenty of grunt or bite the bullet and go depower.


A bit of a contradiction in those statements especially if he picks up a BIII or earlier where the AoA can't be adjusted. I would consider the Blade to be a very high A/R kite and one that will easily lift you in a gust - the earlier the model the less forgiving. I've only flown the 3 and 4 series.




Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
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RedSky


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[*] posted on 9-21-2014 at 03:02 PM


Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc  
Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
You'd be better off with a lower aspect kite which will have low end grunt to get you moving and less likely to fold in gusts.

I'd be looking around for an 8.5m Blade, its a great light wind kite with plenty of grunt or bite the bullet and go depower.


A bit of a contradiction in those statements especially if he picks up a BIII or earlier where the AoA can't be adjusted. I would consider the Blade to be a very high A/R kite and one that will easily lift you in a gust - the earlier the model the less forgiving. I've only flown the 3 and 4 series.


Haha, my posts are often full of contradictions. So you agree that a low AR is better, what do you suggest ?

The Blades are high AR, 5.2 if memory serves, which is a lot higher than most race kites, but the delivery is not the same as other high AR or race kites otherwise racers would use them. They're relatively fat and draggy but infinitely more stable than long thin high AR kites. The downside of course like you say is the gusts but then what FB kite likes gusts. I don't recommend flying a kite in gusts big enough to lift you. Flyer beware.

I don't recommend a high AR kite in the traditional sense but a Blade I do recommend. If that's a contradiction then so be it. :)

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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-22-2014 at 12:03 PM


It seems like the way to go is depower. Maybe I could get something decent in the second hand market for half the price than a new one.


I've been searching a little. According to my weight and height, about 242 lbs, my height is 6' 2", do you think a 11 sqm depower will have pull enough for moving me in light winds (5-8 knots)?

Thanks again.
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[*] posted on 9-22-2014 at 12:30 PM


i have an 8.5 Blade....i dont see this as the kite to figure out atb at all..but it will cure constipation



US-31...Cquad set/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 3.3 Buster/ 3.5m Lobster Foil/ 3.5m Bullet/ 4m Buster/ 4m RMSD 2 line Special/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6 Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.3 Frenzy/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ 13m Pulse/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ MBS Core 8&16/ Flexboard Haise/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Comp XR/ PL Big Foot
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B-Roc


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[*] posted on 9-22-2014 at 12:42 PM


Quote: Originally posted by joserrguez.gar  


I've been searching a little. According to my weight and height, about 242 lbs, my height is 6' 2", do you think a 11 sqm depower will have pull enough for moving me in light winds (5-8 knots)?

Thanks again.


In 8 knots I'd be flying my 14m and I weigh 100#s less than you. In 5 knots I'd be considering a Frisbee. Unless you invest in uber expensive / light kites there comes a point where its just not fun to fly anymore. That point, for me and my current quiver, is 6-7 knots. When I had my 6m Bego, I could board and ski in 4mph winds if the surface was right.

I think an 11m is a good place to start in those winds but you won't be moving all that much unless you really work the kite or the surface is super fast and smooth.

At some point you just have to take the plunge and start somewhere, accept that you can't have only one kite and then build your quiver around whatever you have.

The used market is definitely the place to start your quiver.




Depower Quiver: 14m Gin Eskimo, 10m Gin Eskimo III, 6m Gin Yeti, 4.5m Gin Yeti (custom bridle and mixer)
Fixed Bridle Quiver: MAC Bego 400, JOJO ET Instinct 2.5 & 5.5, Lil Devil 1.5, Sting 1.2
Rides: Ground Industries
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[*] posted on 9-22-2014 at 01:51 PM


I agree with B-Roc and we don't want to see you waste your money. I too cannot see an 11m helping you. You have a set of very challenging criteria for us to solve. You're 6ft 2" & 242lbs, a beginner, on soft soil in very light winds (inland). This may call for some off the wall solutions, hence my 8.5m Blade suggestion. Ok, so scratch that. I've never landboarded and my lack of experience has shown itself but like I mentioned before, you may have much better luck using a buggy. Is this really out of the question ? A secondhand buggy with Bigfoots might come up for not much more than you're willing to pay for a new kite.

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[*] posted on 9-22-2014 at 06:02 PM


There is a Quadrafoil XXXL on here . I don't know about the open cell but the Kitesurfer ( closed cell ) XXXL is a fantastic kite for 5 - 8 kts? For only $250 it may be worth considering ? It should compare to my 9m Blade II and it works in those winds for me but we have clean winds and I am only 135lbs.

Note: I never fly the 9m Blade anymore. I prefer depower.

The suggestion to consider a buggy is a good one.





Kites: 2.5m Profoil , 4.9m QuadrifoilXL kitesurfer, 9m Flexi Blade II, NPW 5 Danger.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-23-2014 at 12:47 PM


Thank you for your advices. They are all very helpful.

It's impossible for me to do buggying. Not for economic reasons, but impossible.

One last question. A 14 meters depower kite would be enough for me? I'm afraid I'm going to take off !!! :o

There are not so many big kites like that in the second hand market, so I'm taking a look at the HQ NEO II in 14 meters, which is a little cheaper than other brands.

I suppose the 14 meters kite will have a lot of pull, but a lot of vertical pull and float also. Of course, I'm riding in low winds, though a little gusty.

Thanks again.
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ssayre




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[*] posted on 9-23-2014 at 01:09 PM


I don't landboard but here is a possible alternative if you want stability and good low end pull. This would not work if jumping is your goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtVjbnHLAbk
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joserrguez.gar




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[*] posted on 9-24-2014 at 12:49 PM


Yes, the NASA is another option. As far as I know, they have a lot of pull and they are cheaper than other options.

Thanks.
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sadsack


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[*] posted on 10-11-2014 at 03:04 PM


I am building a nasa 5 right now, hoped to have it done this week. That is the way to go, they
are great kites and fly in very low wind. That is why I like then so much.
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