Edit in the interest of protecting JIBE from possible political ramifications I am striking the idea that there be any kind of "race" from this dialogue. That said there has been valuable discussion and interest in setting up a course to practice maneuvers and discussion on learning maneuvers such as the "deadman's turn"

Here begins the original thread:

Hey,... some of the West coasters and IBB crowd are talking about Racing clinics and possibly even having a race at IBB. Of course, I'm intrigued by this but as you know, Oregon and Ivanpah are rather far from GA.
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=28020

Has anyone given thought to this kind of thing at JIBE. I'll only be there one day this year, but what are you guy's thoughts on this kind of thing? If I can only be there one day, I could make it a "clinic" or "race" day.

Angus, what are your thoughts on this sort of thing? Do y'all prefer it to be just a "fun fly" kind of event or would you consider a race or a racing clinic? It seems like there is more serious talk about racing lately in the US.

Just wondering and thinking out loud. While I'm intrigued by it all, I'm happy either way.

If the idea of a race clinic or such a thing is unable to happen, threr is nothing wrong with setting out 2 points with traffic cones, pool noodles stuck into the sand or what ever, 100 or 200yards apart and practice going around them.
Read up on the rules on the NAPKA web site and see how you do.
A few days of practice and I guarantee that you will have competition from others. Best way to get a lot of skill and learn for free while kicking the other guys butt.:evil:

I like your thinking Spencer. But... there is a problem at Jekyell. Public Beach. BTW it's spelled right isn't it?

I wish Angus could get us some beach roped off for just buggy activities. A race course!
The public there will just make camp in our paths and we have to weave in and out of people, dogs, sand castles and beach towels.
Most of them don't even think they can get hurt by lines or heaven forbid a hit by a buggy. As you know we have to be on our toes and watch out for THEIR safety.

The first year I went down I dropped a new 5m right on top of a couple of sun bathers and I was so scared that I might had blowed the gig if there was a complaint to the J.I.A. I went and apologized over and over to them and to Angus as well.

The event is growing and maybe Angus can pursue some dedicated sand for us and a possible race course. He's a good politician.

We could use that pole/channel marker as one end and put another marker on up north of there. A race would be fun.

Jekyll Island could work for this but you would have to go to that beach area to the south that typically doesn't have any people on it. It is just between boardwalks enough that not many migrate and settle there. If people approached and it was prudent, you could just adjust your course or proceed up or down the beach till they passed where you had cones set up.

Davis is right about the Public beach. Bob is right about location, you'd have to go to the southern water tower and work north from there. There is an unofficial access point there and limited parking but JIA does not want us using it for the event because of the limited parking and car traffic to the soccer field complex nearby.

So yeah you can buggy south to that area just north of the southern water tower and mess around down there but officially cordoning off part of the beach presents a lot of challenges. Nothing stopping you from having fun down there, though as there are few if any people down there on weekdays.

Quote: Originally posted by MyAikenCheeks

I like your thinking Spencer. But... there is a problem at Jekyell. Public Beach. BTW it's spelled right isn't it?

... It's Jekyll, Davis.

I was thinking all those things myself, but just curious if anyone else on the way to JIBE thought it might be fun. Nothing uber high speed, but maybe more technical. Or maybe just like BK was saying... Just a couple of markers and doing a few laps for a bit of fun.

I know public safety is the biggest issue, just curious if anyone wanted to try and set something up? That is if Angus is ok with it.

Let's discuss?!?!?

What if I brought a few traffic cones and those of us who are interested can meet on the south end of the beach closer to the water tower like Angus and BB were talking about and have a couple of 3 or 4 lap races.

Nothing serious, and maybe more a technical than speed challenge. I'm even thinking we could institute a no race-kite rule... Like nothing with an AR over 4.5. Thoughts?

How many people would be interested in something like that?

New sign in my shop "It's Jekyll Stupid" !!!!!!!:D:D:D

Of corse it's up to Angus but I'll bring down stuff to mark a track with. I like BS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s swim noodle marker idea.

I'll see what I can put together between now and then.
Some markers might make the public a little more awear of our activities in that area and they'll not want to populate that area as much.

We don't want to make Angus or the JIA angry. Like walkin on eggs?

Is anyone interested in this at all? If so, let's discuss logistics & make it simple, if not, I'll drop it and be happy as a clam just to show up for a day.

I hope some of you go South and set up a course of some sort, but remember, no responsibility falls on the public for us to do what we do. The one with the wheels has to always give right of way to those that don't. All the responsibility for safety falls on us. Even if your path is predictable, and a pedestrian walks into your path and you hit him/her, it's your fault. If a kite buggier and a beach going pedestrian goes to JIA and complains about the other one infringing on their activity, guess who loses that fight. Yes, the kite buggier will lose every time.

Thanks for the wise words BB...

This thread doesn't seem to have had much action, so I'll just bring my 3 big traffic cones and keep them in the car. I'll be there either Wed or Thur (depending on the forecast) if anyone is interested, we can run down toward the south end and set up a course.

In the meantime if anyone is interested, take the time to read up on the Fisley rules.

I think there would be a number of people that would be keen to get out and play around some cones. I'd be in.
You could even set up a small fun challenge like my friends do in Québec - a relatively small area (like the beach area in front of where we set up) they put maybe 5 or 6 buckets out in a pattern and you get 5-6 tennis balls and it's timed to so who can run the short little course rounding each bucket and throwing a tennis ball in each. So it's a combination of speed plus point or penalties for getting the ball in the bucket

Ok... Here is my plan:

I'm going to bring several (3 -5) traffic cones down to the beach on Thursday and head to the south end to ride. I'll try to set up a course to play on. Markite and maybe a few others seem interested, so we can decide some more definite plans on that day... I'm sure the GoPros will be rolling. I'm thinking of something simple like them being just staggered obstacles to navigate with a long down winder back to the start. Challenging enough, but mostly just fun.

Markite also said he'd be willing to show me how to try that deadman's turn manuever as well so we will likely be down there working that out as well.

Anyone who wants to join in "the races" or try out whatever course we set up is welcome, so come join the fun.

I've never been in or seen a race before, so I'm not sure of the logistics and I haven't been able to gain much from the Race Rules "fisley" thread, so any insight anyone can offer is much appreciated. Ie how to start the race (kites up or down) (buggies staggered etc.)

I'm gonna get on YouTube and try to watch some races.

I am down for a little racing action. The wind might not blow hard enough for any real speed on the 12m Charger, but Black Betty can haul some serious ass in 12mph wind on that smooth hard pack. That is, as long as the "no kites over 4.5 AR" rule doesn't exclude her wide hips(4.85 AR on the 8m Toxic).

I guess I mean no race kites really... Just to make it fair... 4.5 is what most of the Toxics and Reactors are, that was my main reason... Maybe I should say 4.9

Bring on black Betty for sure, but just so you know, the JI hard pack is almost like concrete... 12mph with 8m will have you moving REALLY fast... I love a good 4-5m on the beach there. The real intent I have is the "Challenging difficulty" aspect over full blown out speed. Speed is good, but I'm thinking of skill setting.

Plus I'm just a speed weenie

I am a big fan of being well powered. I also like going fast, even though I do not have a very smooth surface at my local beach. I think I could hit 40mph+ if I was able to actually keep both hands on my kite instead of hanging on for dear life above 30mph to keep from being bucked out of the buggy. That is why I have to fly my fixed bridle kites on a bar instead of handles. If I generate any real speed on my beach, I have to have a free hand to hang onto the downtube to keep the buggy stuck to my butt so I don't come up and over the side rail. I will be in heaven at Jekyll I am sure. Black Betty likes being worked hard, and doesn't mind a tight course with frequent turns

See you there Thursday then!

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

That is, as long as the "no kites over 4.5 AR" rule doesn't exclude her wide hips(4.85 AR on the 8m Toxic).

Wide hips.

Dude, I cant wait to get my Black Betty's hips up in the air for the first time. I will prolly be terrifying and exhilarating at the same time :wee:

It is a lot of rip stop to be on a fixed bridle for sure, but once you show her who is boss she minds nicely. Just get good with the brakes because she will overfly all day if you leave the brakes too loose or don't redirect soon enough.

Well jeez... Now I'm gonna have to pull out Cookie Monster... (Yes, that's what I call my blue 8.6m RII)

Just gotta build some speed-confidence :wee:

The speed itself has never been what scares me. If I were on a smooth surface like real good hard pack or a lake bed, I would never get enough of the speed. The bumps are the scary part. I am already on the heavy end of the weight limit for the buggy I ride. The only thing that really scares me about it is bumpy ground breaking the buggy or bouncing me out of the buggy. On top of that, I have the most fun when I ride hard. I like slinging through turns at full speed and diving big kites like a bat out of hell. Soliver, you hang out with me at JIBE, and I will give you plenty of bad habits!

Hehehe... I'm never concerned over the bumps... I've hit plenty of big uns and survived (if you see a sand castle, odds are there's a big hole next to it)... I always am nervous of losing control and hurting someone other than me (or hurting myself) .... When I get going really fast, I always feel like I'm less in control... That's really just a psychological thing I know... I need to (as my mood says to the left) remember to flex my metacognitives and continue to get more experience... And don't worry, I have good discernment and won't pick up tooooo many bad habits

I'm sure Cookie Monster will come out to play with the Black Betty twins.

Spencer, Have you flown that 8.6 at JIBE before? Trying to visualize the speed and feel for that beast on a beach.

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

the Black Betty twins.

No, Cookie Monster is relatively new to me... Just got the 8.6m from Angus late last summer. I've never flown anything over 5m on JI, and I usually size it down due to the hard pack, smooth wind and overall ease of movement. I usually like to be a little underpowered anyway cuz like I said earlier I start to feel like I'm losing control as I approach the 20mph arena. That is mostly because I hardly ever have the space to move more than about 15mph. It's all in my head... Need to break out of that. Also, there are usually enough beach goers around to make me feel scared of collateral damage.

That sums up my feelings as well.
I have much to learn this trip.

I'll tell you from my experience last year to MAKE SURE you just spend time doing what you enjoy about buggying and don't get too caught up trying too much new stuff. I got caught up in all the stuff I wanted to try and never got it to all fit in. I ended up spending very little time just riding to enjoy myself and wish I had. So learn new stuff definitely, but be sure you spend enough time just enjoying what you already know.

Carry on.

If I am on the buggy and slinging a kite around and making tracks, that is all I need to enjoy myself

There was at one point a long post here regarding how an "R-word" might work on the JI beach but...

Oops... I deleted all that...

Sorry guys... I retract that entire statement for fear of screwing the pooch

Sorry Angus, it won't happen again. I promise!

Woah, now we are using "race" and "JIBE" in the same sentence and that is a non starter. I'm not trying to be a tool but that rule has been clear for 6 years now so I don't know how it comes up. I saw this thread turning in the direction of cones set up for some course rallying at the south end and was cool with that. I thought Bobby spoke well above.

We already came close to losing the event last year when a few self-important riders went south of the southern water tower (and then filmed it for the JIA to see - sheesh).

JIBE veterans already know that the venue offers some of the best and certainly the most unique riding venues on the east coast with unprecedented public and government support... Just by showing up and enjoying it and learning from new and old friends. SHIRT, we even made peace with the F***ING PLOVERS!!! Who else in North America can say that???

And so we are trying to screw this up... Why?

Sorry to be a Saturday morning buzz kill.