dangerdan
Posts: 200
Registered: 9-5-2013
Location: Hamilton Ontario
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Nose dives
I'm sure this is a common question, but went through most of the Flying Techniques section and could not find what I was looking for.
I am practicing low level flying 10-15 ft above ground with a 2M 4 line Beamer. When I make my turns, I turn towards the ground rather than skyward.
That's my problem. When I can't, the kite nose dives into the ground and I freeze. It was suggested I move foward a couple steps to soften the impact.
What can I do to pull out of the nose dive or soften the impact.
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MeatÐriver
Posts: 345
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Mood: Needs more DP.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but I believe all the advice you need is in your post. Do not down turn while so low to the ground. If you
are referring to being forced into a down turn because the kite is losing power and momentum, try turning sooner...while the kite is more in the
center of the window.
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markite
Posts: 1769
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Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada
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Hey Dan
Well first off I would say why are you bothering to do a downturn if you are too close to the ground and you know you can't do it? In most cases you
should not be looking for a way to soften impact but avoid them all together - if you don't have room, turn the other way. However there are times
when you can't avoid it like a line tangled or maybe picking up the controls the wrong way. And it is good to learn downturns, for some reason many
people learning to kitesurf will fly a kite to the edge until it stalls and then try and upturn and no way the kite will fly up unless you can run
backward to induce more pressure to get the turn. With enough height gravity will assist the downturn bringing you back into the wind window.
If you are flying on handles you can achieve a tighter turn with practice, on a bar it's limited a bit more.
With any kite running forward to take some pressure off will slow the kite down but you would need to run fast quite a distance and more than you
could do when you are only a few feet off the ground. With handles you can throw full brake on to stop the kite moving forward but if you are in high
winds there is still forward movement until you can apply enough brake pressure to stop and reverse. To go full brake throw the tops of your handles
forward away from you which rotates the bottoms of handles back up toward your arms. depending on how you have your lines set this will slow down the
kite and as you rotate more the kite will stop and start to reverse. This is also used to reverse launch when you are nose down.
Mark Groshens NAPKA KC 13
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn Arcs: Charger2 22.5 +18 + 15 + 6.5, Charger I 6, Scorpion 16 + 10, Phantom II 12 + 9, Orig Phantom 9 + 6, Synergy 10 + 8, F 1200, S 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17 + 12, Rise 13 + 10 + 7, Razor 9 + 6
Foils: PL Leopards and Lynx, Airea Raptors, some PL Reactor IIs + IIIs, Libre Spirits, Cross Kite Sonics, Ozone Flow
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lots of old school skis, snowboard
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
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Location: Hamilton Ontario
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I have difficulty explaining myself. (LOL)
How do I recover from a nosedive.
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
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Location: Hamilton Ontario
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Thanks Mark... Full brakes on. I will give that a try later today depending on the wind
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lives2fly
Posts: 580
Registered: 12-17-2009
Location: Outer Hebrides UK
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either pull with your back hand and send the kite back up or keep your front hand down and loop it all the way around.
if you only have 3-5m lines (10-15feet) thats probably the biggest part of your problem. Most people fly 20-25m (65-82ft) and I would suggest you use
at least 15m (49 ft)
15m Naish Fly,12m & 7.5m Naish Cults, 10m & 12m Naish Parks, 9m Naish Bolt, 6m & 14m Naish X3's, 13m PL Venom, 10m & 6m Ozone
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1.5m flexi Buzz, 3.5m Flexifoil Bullet, 4.7m flexi Rage, 5.6m PL Twister II, 6.6m flexi Blade, 8.0m HQ Toxic
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
Registered: 9-5-2013
Location: Hamilton Ontario
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The lines on this kite are 20m. I tried to practice yesterday but the wind was almost non existing and today its pouring rain.
When the weather improoves I will be out there flying
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markite
Posts: 1769
Registered: 3-8-2004
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada
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Hey Dan
flying in lighter breeze will really force you to learn kite skills and handling. The more you can learn to make a kite fly in light wind the better
you'll be for higher winds when a lot is just hanging on and not working the kite as much.
When using handles also keep in mind to use some arm movement to assist your movements on the handles. Pushing and pulling handles is one part of
steering and twisting handles is another part.
In higher winds there will be a lot more pressure trying to twist the handles to get the kite to turn so beware that there are times when you may find
it takes so much to torque that handle that the kite will need a bigger loop to turn. Wearing a harness and hooking into the strop is one way of
controlling the pressure on the top portion of the handles allowing you to apply pressure to the bottoms of handles without needing the wrist pressure
you get unhooked. Overall without hooking in you get a freer range of movement with your arms for steering but at a certain point hooking wind gives
you something to anchor against to turn.
On a side note if the weather clears a few of us are dying to get to wasaga to buggy at least one day this weekend - so far the fall has been crap for
NW winds on weekends so not much buggying happening at all
Mark Groshens NAPKA KC 13
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn Arcs: Charger2 22.5 +18 + 15 + 6.5, Charger I 6, Scorpion 16 + 10, Phantom II 12 + 9, Orig Phantom 9 + 6, Synergy 10 + 8, F 1200, S 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17 + 12, Rise 13 + 10 + 7, Razor 9 + 6
Foils: PL Leopards and Lynx, Airea Raptors, some PL Reactor IIs + IIIs, Libre Spirits, Cross Kite Sonics, Ozone Flow
Peter Lynn Kite Cat for cruising the lakes
buggies: PL XR+, Cameleon Pagona, custom bigfoot, PL Bigfoot, custom ice buggy
Boards: 2 custom directionals, O.R Surf series 6-3 and 5-11, Mako Duke, Mako Skinny, Mako 140 Wide, Mako 150 Wide, Mako King, Brunotti
lots of old school skis, snowboard
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flyhighWNY
Posts: 327
Registered: 10-24-2012
Location: Buffalo/Niagara Falls, NY
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HIJACK!! Wasaga Beach brings back some great memories of May 24 weekends..
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
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If there is any way you can hook up with Markite or somebody local it will be worth driving a few hours to make it happen.
Like others have suggested avoid downturns too low. Your goal should be to reduce the number of times you crash .
Speed equals power. As Mark suggested use your brakes either to stall the kite or speed up your turn.
To relaunch nose down you add brake line tension. It is a balancing act. Too little and you won't get lift off. Too much and the kite folds toward
you. Equal left, right tension is also important. In light wind you may need to walk backward for the kite to lift off. Once it has lifted assist it
in flipping by letting the brake loose on one side or the other.
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
Registered: 9-5-2013
Location: Hamilton Ontario
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Good news. I have been practicing with my 2m Beamer. This should have been my first kite.
I have been doing nose dive and hitting the brakes. Its amazing how fast the kite stops. It was not too long before I was able stop the kite in mid
air and make it go back up again. Yahoo.
I have also started holding the handles at the mid point rather than near the top for better brake control.
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WELDNGOD
Posts: 5143
Registered: 10-11-2006
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Mood: Dyin' to go flyin'
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That is what we keep telling newbies, for good reason. Glad you are getting the hang of it.
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bigE123
Posts: 442
Registered: 1-26-2012
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| Quote: | | I have also started holding the handles at the mid point rather than near the top for better brake control. |
If you need to do this then maybe the brake lines are too slack? The Beamer has brake line adjusters, try moving the brake lines up a knot and go back
to holding the handles with the power line between your top two fingers 
Blade V 4.9m & 8.5m VIP,Ozone Frenzy 11m, SS Flexifoil buggy, PL hybrid suspension buggy (PTW), MBS core 95.
homemade:
NPW 9b: 7m (Union Jack). NPW 9b HA 3m (Damien) and 10m (Jolly R). NPW21 3m, 5m (aka Zombie), 8m (Batman), 11.5m (NASA), NPW 21 HA 6.8m
The Hammers 5m, 7.2m & 12m
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
Registered: 9-5-2013
Location: Hamilton Ontario
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| Quote: |
The Beamer has brake line adjusters, try moving the brake lines up a knot and go back to holding the handles with the power line between your
top two fingers
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Whats the advantage of holding the handles with the power line between your top two fingers to how I hold them at the mid point ? I have tried that
and it does not work for me. When I fly the 4M kite I cant get enough leverage on the handles to pull the brakes and if I move the break line up one
knot I have a hard time getting the kite up in the air.
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bigE123
Posts: 442
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Something does n't seem right here, on the Beamer you don't need that much brake input, I had a 5m and my son has a 2m and you certainly don't need
much brake pressure to turn/back-stall it. With the bottom of the handles pointing toward the kite it still struggles to take-off?
Blade V 4.9m & 8.5m VIP,Ozone Frenzy 11m, SS Flexifoil buggy, PL hybrid suspension buggy (PTW), MBS core 95.
homemade:
NPW 9b: 7m (Union Jack). NPW 9b HA 3m (Damien) and 10m (Jolly R). NPW21 3m, 5m (aka Zombie), 8m (Batman), 11.5m (NASA), NPW 21 HA 6.8m
The Hammers 5m, 7.2m & 12m
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ssayre
Posts: 3587
Registered: 8-15-2013
Location: Indiana
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It sounds like you are accidentally applying the brake to turn it towards the ground. That's the only reason I can think why the kite would go the
opposite direction your pulling. Try flying on just the power lines with no brake input and see how it does.
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Demoknight
Posts: 1150
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The correct way to hold your handles is with your index finger above your power line, and your middle finger below it. This allows you to have your
strongest fingers straddle the power line for the most comfortable grip, while leaving enough leverage for you to apply brakes for turns or to stall
the kite. If you are holding the handles like this, your brake lines should also be slightly slack and have just a bit of droop to them in order for
the kite to fly correctly. Most mid aspect power kites could actually fly without brakes attacked, but for obvious safety reasons don't try that.
NAPKA US8008
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dangerdan
Posts: 200
Registered: 9-5-2013
Location: Hamilton Ontario
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| Quote: |
The correct way to hold your handles is with your index finger above your power line, and your middle finger below it. This allows you to have your
strongest fingers straddle the power line for the most comfortable grip, while leaving enough leverage for you to apply brakes for turns or to stall
the kite. If you are holding the handles like this, your brake lines should also be slightly slack and have just a bit of droop to them in order for
the kite to fly correctly. Most mid aspect power kites could actually fly without brakes attacked, but for obvious safety reasons don't try that.
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Looks like I need to make some adjustments. Weather permitting I'll see what I can do.
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
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I understand what you are saying about wanting to move your hands down. I have to do that to bring larger foils down but flying unhooked you are best
with one finger above and 3 below .
I think your whole flying style sounds " off " . Nose dives aren't something you should be doing or having to correct for so often? Having to slam on
the breaks to stop it isn't supposed to be a common move ? Most of your flying is done on the front lines. You should only be needing to apply light
break pressure during flight and then only when wanting to speed up a turn or stall some speed. ( + set the kite back in the window when in motion ) .
Keep Flying and Keep Trying ! 
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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