I have over 20 years of kiting experience, 5 of those with fixed bridle power foils. I have flown a few depower foils, but never owned one. I want to get a depower, and I am drawn towards twinskins because of their simplicity and low wind performance. I emailed Peter Lynn himself and he still has some F-Arcs in stock for $100 each if you pay shipping. If you are going to tell me that is a bad idea, is it because the kites are dangerous, or they are frustrating and hard to manage? I have seen them bowtie plenty of times and I am prepared for that. I also know how amazingly they deal with gusts, which would allow me to buggy and board in the park instead of having to go all the way to the beach. I could also make use of days that the wind is up, but the direction is not quite right. Also, can anyone who has flown or owns either size of them tell me the respective wind ranges for each size?(the 12m and 16m)

I also figure if I can master the most frustrating high aspect twinskin, I can master any of them. I tend to like to throw myself in the deep end as long as I know I won't hurt myself. I respect the kite and would only fly in the correct winds of course.

You should be fine with an F-Arc as long as you start out in light winds and have plenty of safety gear (helmet, pads, etc...).

The F-Arc is a high performance ultra high aspect ratio machine. It is an awesome kite for sure and as long as it is properly inflated and never hits the ground bowties are minimal. It's the launch and landing that can be a handful, just keep that safety in mind and don't be afraid to pull it when it goes south.

With your experience you should be fine. If this is your first depower I would probably recommend at least flying someone elses depower so you have some kind of idea how the bar and steering and such work. But as long as you are cautious you will be ok.

One thing to note though, the F-Arc is a high performance machine...but not a low wind engine. Those older ARC's had exceptional upper ranges but were not good performers in the light stuff. If you are looking for something for light wind then the F-ARC's may not be the best choice. The 1600 will work ok in the light stuff, but you are still talking 8-10 mph winds for inflation and proper launching. If you got the area and can work the kite you should be able to get going and work some power out of it.

I think I still have a 1200 and one 1600 left in stock from my last order. With the ultra high cost of shipping these in, I may be able to get one to you for around the same price or maybe even a little less.

I liked the F-Arc. I learned to kite on Venoms but the guy that I kited with who got me started had F-Arcs and I flew his fairly often. For a $100 it sounds like a great deal!!

In my experience however Arcs do not have good low wind performance. but do have exceptional high wind performance.

So I would go right ahead if you are looking to try an Arc but hold off if you are after a low wind machine. It will be hard to beat your Toxic for light wind. Unless you get a really big Flysurfer or a race foil like a Reactor, Vapour, Yakuza etc

I have flown a few depowers, just not a twinskin yet. All the depowers I have flown have been foils. If I were to get an F-Arc, it would most likely be the 1600. AWOC are you talking more or less than $100 for shipping? I am assuming that you have dealt directly with Peter Lynn on these to get yours? It is hard to argue the price of the kites, but the shipping might be a deal breaker if it is as bad as you say. When I say light winds, I mean 6-10mph.

I wouldn't bother going to my beach most days if it was less than 9mph with the Toxic. My sand can be a bit soft, so I need the upper wind range on the Toxic to be able to get rolling and stay upwind. If the wind is less than 8-9mph the lines are near impossible to keep tight and the first time you slide a foot you stall the kite. I actually fell in love with buggying on the Toxic a bit overpowered. I was riding 15mph Monday night and it was glorious. I could go as hard downwind as I wanted and just park it. The Toxic just settles farther and farther back in the window and keeps giving you speed. The upwind is huge as well that powered. I had one tiny OBE that was basically just me being lifted a foot or so out of the seat and standing straight up right behind the buggy.

What Kent said is right - shipping will be huge, I seem to remember someone posted the shipping cost a number of months back and it more than doubled the cost of the kite.
I think if you haven't flown a twinskin this is not a kite for you. Even with twinskin experience I think this kite would be an additional kite for most fliers rather than it being the main kite in your quiver for a couple of reasons
1 - being experience and knowing when the conditions are right for this kite and how to handle it's idiosyncrasies
2- you are in Chicago and by the great lakes (especially Chicago) we rarely have any kind of steady winds. When they are up they are high and gusty and switchy - lighter winds that are steady are also rarer but we do get them.

There are just so many kites that are more user friendly that even at the cheaper kite price of the F arc I think without the experience you are putting money toward more headache than pleasure at your level of experience especially if you want to use it in a buggy without the space to head off in all directions on a narrower hardpack beach. Kite skiing or snowboarding you would have a little more flexibility with the Farc but then you need to deal with potentially squirrely winter winds as well.

My beach is very large and allows almost 180° of clean and steady winds. From dune to water is 200 yards or so and probably around a quarter mile from one end to the other of usable medium to hard packed sand. Space is not the issue. I think shipping might stop me from making the purchase though if it is as bad as you guys are saying. I have emailed PL to give me a shipping quote.

Second MarS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s opinion and I'd like to add, of the two common sizes the 1600 is the biggest PITA to learn to fly. Sure they can be had cheaply but which is more important having a kite you got for next to nothing that you rarely fly or a kite that cost a little more that you love and fly the hell out of?

I love F-Arcs. I think they are some of the coolest twin skins going and I'm psyched almost every time I fly mine. I have to say I disagree on their light wind ability in the sense that for an Arc they are a relatively light wind kite. My 1200 pulls as well as my 19m Charger1 but smokes the Charger on the up wind. They have a ton of lift, a ton of glide but very little depower range even with a long throw bar.

Start with a friendly Arc, get your arc skills dialed and then track down an F-Arc. The skills are transferable to the F-arc with just some minor tricks that the higher AR demands.

Something I have found is that I have so few days with good winds over 10 kts and under 25. Those few days that it is blowing in that range I go straight to my Synergy. I just don't have the luxury of time for messing around with the Farc. You should ask yourself if you get enough kite-able days to mess around ? I only wish I did. :ticking:

I hearya there Bladerunner... my F-arcs have yet to even leave their bags since new. Same with the Aura 15m... not enough time for all these kites.

Hmmm.... Just happened to drop by today and I found this thread about my favorite kite. F-arc's are amazing kites, but they are dangerous as hell to. If you aren't trying to break land speed records or boost to the moon, they aren't the kite for you. I love mine, I fall under "boosting to the moon" :P .

You definitely need twinskin experience to fly these. They try to kill you every chance they get. That being said, they are the highest performance kite I have flown and probably ever will. The only areas where they are lacking is depower range and downwind performance. The are a pain in the butt to get up, but once they are up, they are like a rock in the sky.

My 16m is the base of my quiver. It gets me going from 4-5mph(yes, it does work that low, you just have to work it a bit) all the way up to about 12mph. My 12m, my favorite kite, is amazing for jumps. Riding, on atb at least, it generate to much side pull to ride very effectively. The range is about 15-25mph for decent jumps. At 25mph I can barely walk upwind but the jumps are unreal. 20 foot high jumps are not uncommon. Something interesting to note is that the kite is so high AR that if you jump and overfly the kite a bit past 12, you can jump upwind!!!

Unrelated from the subject, I have had to take a break from kiting. I am far to busy to fly with school, work, and all the extracurriculars I am in. I seldom have time to come on here and see what is new. I have taken a much stronger interest in science and have been devoting more time to research and experimentation. I hope I can pick up the sport again soon when I have time but It seems doubtful. 7 years and I will be out of high school and college, how much can the sport change in that amount of time?

Sorry for the hijack.

It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1439591.13777222...

http://www.peterlynnkites.co.nz/news/0112news.htm

PL described it pretty well in the day: "F Arcs are high aspect ratio- the 1500/9.5 is 7.5, the 1200/7.5 is 6.5 and the 950/6.0, will be 5.5. They have more de-power than any previous kite we've produced. They are better upwind than any kite we've ever made before, maybe than any kite anywhere. They jump VERY well, especially hang time- hence the name. They are very gust responsive and exceptionally luff resistant. But, F Arcs are not for bunnies*: Their pre-inflated flying is not as easy as for the standard Arc range. Their water relaunch is not as reliable- especially the 1500/9.5. It can develop a twist when nose down in light winds which is difficult to get out. And -bunnies are not birds."