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Author: Subject: SO WHAT WAS/IS NABX?
SCREWYFITS


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[*] posted on 10-13-2013 at 07:56 PM
SO WHAT WAS/IS NABX?


WHAT IS/WAS NABX?

So to me, my impression of what NABX is and/or should be;

The experience shared by different people while having the same interest...

Helping and sharing with one another achieve an amazing height of euphoria...

Hanging out, sharing stories, becoming a family, making more memories...

Ultimately being part of a family with others that you'd never cross paths with and learn they would bend over backwards to give the shirt off their backs to help you in the largest ways, in a world of greed, war, fraud and corruption this is very rare, unique and a value that most humans never experience in their lives, and would be fortunate to have the opportunity to experience (at minimum) once in their lives...

The good that comes out of people that could by some, believe is an extinct (at minimum, rare) trait in people now days (IMHO phenomenal acts of human kindness)...

I was always under the assumption/impression (or led to believe) that NABX is/was a nonprofit type organization or at least all funds went into the event, just by the way they (organizers) talk, promote and portray their intentions (wether intentional or not) (I've never been told one way or the other to believe anything different)...

One thing I can't understand is why officials from NABX are so secretive about the whole operation, (releasing dates is understandable) what went wrong, where the funds are being spent, where is the accountability of the community's funds? did someone go rogue and bet it all on black? It's all in an account to fund the next event? Did the organization go deep in debt and funds where needed to bail it out?

Sorry for the lack of a more political wording, If everything is legit (I'm not making accusations, but without communication, it is left open to interpretation by individuals and the masses who communicate with each other) then why can't it be communicated?

If it is something that the community at large can help out with, then the money really isn't an issue, you would have seen an abundance of donations and volunteering flood in to make NABX successful. Honestly, this is the feeling I'm getting from the IBB organization, coming in to rescue the community's event...

I'm just not sure if this is all a day late dollar short scenario for the community...

To give a personal opinion "my personal opinion" (and others may feel the same) to those that defend last years event claiming that a good time was had anyways, I'm agreeing to a very small extent, the damage done is; yeah I had a great time, would I have had a better time if the rest of my family came that didn't because of the doubt and lack of event... I guarantee for me (and I believe others as well) it would have been 3fold the fun!!! And what about them that didn't come and have fun but would have if there was an event? I missed so many family members that that are die hards and wouldn't have missed it, if it happened the way it has in the past!!! How many came vs the previous year? Maybe a third? Maybe half?

I have a deep appreciation for the NABX organizers, and really have no personal animosity toward any of the staff, in fact get along and enjoy the ones I've had the pleasure to meet... I'm extremely grateful for the original creators of the first event and all the the ones making it what it's been up to 2012, but honestly feel there are new organizers that need to take the torch and keep it burning for all those that have supported this event along the way and the sake of keeping it alive as it deserves to be...

We need organizers that communicate, that have the communities best interest at heart (and it show), the way I felt it's been in previous events, organizers that can ask for help if needed, organizers that will allow the supporters to be part of the success that the event shares...
We really need (most importantly) organizers that can realize when they need help and ask for it or pass the torch to the best candidate to keep the event alive...

I'm guess I'm asking for explanations or excuses, just want to express that I think we're all on the same chapter just not the same page and I believe we are all better than this...
Some think nothing is/was wrong with the past non event and the one future canceled event and some think the future should be a guarantee that with our donations we'll have someone to build it so we will come...

Some have mentioned, oh it's only a $100, well it's not, it's time off work, it's travel expenses, it's accommodations and it's food in the expectation that is all spent for an event, for some that is a tremendous amount and $100 should ensure that it happens, then when it doesn't there is really no explanation? And what... we just say well I got my hotel, food, travel for the rest of my investment? To many that $100 is the whole event... What if everybody came and just didn't pay, would that be OK, I mean it's only a $100 bucks... The shoe doesn't fit either foot, now does it?

I've seen comments like "I talked to" ...... "and they said".... As much as we are trying to help, smooth things over or just prove innocence or whatever reason, shouldn't we encourage them (the organizers) to speak to us all? Be more vocal?

I'd like to invite others to comment and ask questions that could help everyone understand what went wrong and why we're seeing the lack of events, what we should expect in the future and what they are doing to insure it... I'm most interested in (but not limited to) the organizers replies...

I really don't want to be mad about anything and trying to be open to everyone's point of view and encourage others to do the same...




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[*] posted on 10-14-2013 at 07:32 AM


Nice post, you've been in my head or what? I share your thoughts completely. I'm glad you wrote that all out because frankly, I just haven't had the time lately.

Good intentions are a great place to start and I still believe that has always been the case with SBBB/NABX and now with IBB. The community part IS the key that makes this event special. Part of what makes a family community is the one for all, all for one spirit and accountability to one another is a big factor. With that part missing, speculation and stories are going to happen and feeling of the family closeness will erode. That's how I view what has happened here. This is my view and possibly my view only, doesn't matter until I am shown different. But when it comes down to the cost of something, I do have two very separate views on the value of something when it comes either giving or buying. When giving to a family, who really looks at the dollar value compared to what is needed, as compared to buying, well now it's business. And with business, then it's the dollar that has the value and not the needs of the family. I'm just sharing my feelings here, but I was losing that community spirit within this event.

I applaud Bobby and Brian to have the courage to take this on. Does anyone think that these two guys were unaware that there would be this backlash? Of course they knew it, but felt it had to be done. The possibility of a family split is the acceptable risk in order to save the family. And is in most families, I do believe that once the dust settles (a little pun intended there) and calm heads prevail, the family will not only be back together, but stronger than ever.

We may not always agree, but as long as we keep interest of the community spirit as the focus and our good intentions in that direction, we will prevail. Just need to work on the details of how to resolve those differences when they do come up. And they will always come up.




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[*] posted on 10-14-2013 at 02:14 PM






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[*] posted on 10-18-2013 at 03:06 PM


NABX will have a permit for April because they applied for the permit.

Bob and Brian didn't ask NABX if they applied for the permits.

They just went and announced IBB.

NABX was then canceled.

I get it folks, we want an event. But not at the expense of a split in the community. I think the organizers of NABX should have been shown some respect and *asked* if the permit was applied for, *before* IBB was announced.

this post has not been edited, and if it is, the edits will be described.




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[*] posted on 10-18-2013 at 10:14 PM


Steve I have a lot of respect for you. Your assumptions are incorrect though. When I spoke to dean almost a month before the public announcement, he indicated that no application had been made. BLM also told us there had been no communication from NABX for any reason, much less to seek a permit. The first effort for nabx to obtain a permit was within days of the deadline. IBB started that process over 4 months earlier to avoid missing the deadline. My direct call to dean was purely out of respect. The call included an invitation to bring him onboard to have a say in the new event. The offer was rejected.





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[*] posted on 10-19-2013 at 08:03 AM


The time to ask if permits had been applied for was after the deadline (Oct 1st), before announcing IBB. Not before the deadline. If they had not been applied for by the deadline, absolutely, announce IBB.

There are multiple people at the BLM to talk to, not everyone in the BLM is aware of what others are coordinating.

The statement by NABX that they will have permits is not consistent with NABX not applying for a permit. Based upon what I know.




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[*] posted on 10-19-2013 at 09:20 AM


Okay, let's just call this what it is and be done with it.

2013 was a mess. It shook the confidence of every active and prospective participant the world over. Those few who could muster the patience and personal as well as financial flexibility to follow many iterations that followed leading up to the non-event managed to have a great time while those whom had been planning for years in advance, sat helplessly watching the fruits their hard fought struggle vaporize. That was only the slimmest portion of the overall cost to the Event and the community as a whole that could quite easily been mitigated by clear, effective group communication of an effective and logical plan. That was absent then and continues to be now. What seems to be the order of the day is a cheerleading effort on the part of the old guard harkening back to days before most current and prospective participants became aware of the event reflecting shared moments, trials and hardships endured over the history of the event, none of which hold relative significance to those who would to join us. There seems to be a lack of forward vision within the leadership of the organization and that seems to be in keeping with the widely circulated manta the NABX simply provides venue, not content. 2013 was a manifestation of failure to fulfill that singular manta and little has been communicated to the community that would restore confidence that 2013 was simply a glitch in the machine that has run it's course, never to be repeated. In fact, there was every indication that things where on track for a repeat performance complete with the same ear marks and subtle warning signs the most obvious of which was a lack of communication that paperwork had been filed in a timely manner in keeping with the current regulations. Whether the application was or was not filed is hardly the question. The fact remains that there is a lack of communication between the organization and its participants which is creating an ever widening gap between aoxomoxoa and those who wish to experience it.

Fix that and all the other problems begin to fade quickly.




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[*] posted on 10-19-2013 at 11:06 AM


There was communication before last years non-event about the failure to get a permit. Multiple emails to nabx participants concerning that topic.

nabx has provided content, advertised content, promoted content. To say that nabx's mantra is mainly venue is false. Anyone can get a permit for ivanpah, and almost any time. nabx's strong point was content; races, out-and-back, food, raffle, freestyle, clinics, company reps, etc. Similar content to what is being promoted for IBB! How quickly many forget.




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[*] posted on 10-19-2013 at 11:53 AM


I stand corrected. Obviously, I am thoroughly mistaken in my assessment of the situation. Thank you for making my error in judgement quite clear. I now beg your leave so I may return to my quiet little cave in the corner of Occupied Northern Mexico and chisel out my apology letter.



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[*] posted on 10-20-2013 at 12:33 AM






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[*] posted on 10-20-2013 at 06:52 AM
As a newbie


The event was talked about like it was a THE BEATLES show. We bought tickets and soon understood that the promoter was a ghost.

Then, when the promoter appears, in a mirage, he is annoyed that we questioned why the concert is held in a big, free, open field and the band is "Beetles", rather than the actual Beatles.

As a newbie...I was duped. Shame on me for not researching more and seeing the foundation was crumbling. By paying my money I bought a $100 t-shirt is how I rationalized to the wife. Especially, after paying $1000 in gas to get there and back.

I had a great time because of the people I camped with...not because of the band.

Again...shame on me for not researching. I thank those that are fixing the foundation and support them in their efforts.
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[*] posted on 11-20-2013 at 07:42 PM


Now that we know we can get a permit and come there anytime, or still use the permit from last year, who needs an organized event? specially when it costs $$?? pffftt! another words don't expect me to pay! EVER! I don't need a tent, toilets or a tshirt, to have a good time with some cool folks. 1st week of April I'm there! organized or not! event? we don't need no stinkin event!
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[*] posted on 11-21-2013 at 11:20 AM


xteme you are correct in that you would be able to legally do that unless BLM caught you participating in an event you aren't registered for that they have issued a Special Recreation Permit for. While there might not be much impact on the natural resource that Ivanpah is if you were to take this approach, imagine the impact if a hundred people did the same thing. It would be unsanitary to have a large group of people doing their business back in the bushes. I don't want that being in the mix when dust is blowing in my face the rest of the year.

IBB is not being put on to generate a profit for anyone. It was organized to create an atmosphere where people from far and wide would want to join each other at Ivanpah Dry Lake. Congregating that many people has reasonable requirements from BLM and we intend to fully meet those requirements. Everyone that pays the fees is doing their part to preserve the natural resource. Is it really right to come and enjoy everyone's company there and yet not chip in on the cost to have them there? We're all in this together.




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[*] posted on 11-21-2013 at 04:07 PM


"We need organizers that communicate, that have the communities best interest at heart."
This word "community " here is most important!
But it appears, no, has been forgotten by a bloviating ignoramus that has lost control of, and has no concern for the business aspect of the NABX event. It's just aoxomoxoa??? Get real!

It's time that dean makes a public apology to this community for his mishandling of the event.

It is time that dean gives up the copyright of the event known as NABX to the community.

It appears that dean doesn't give a damn about tradition, peoples personal sacrifices in time and money that it takes to attend, the validity of an organized event, or community.

How about giving refunds back to all that got a $100 t-shirt dean?




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[*] posted on 11-25-2013 at 07:07 PM



Not to pop anyone's bubble but Brian and Bobby are not the only two in charge of IBB. There is a large number of people and business owners that make up the committee of IBD. IBB is a non-profit and there are an odd number of members so there is a tie breaker in the event of a decision.

and who are these people and businesses who are making these decisions for the "community"?
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[*] posted on 11-25-2013 at 09:21 PM


Personal use permits for Ivanpah have always been free, you only needed to apply for them. Even during NABX, personal permits were free to those that requested them.

That being said, to hold an actual planned special event or a planned large gathering for any length of time, a special event permit must be obtained and that does cost money to get. NABX and IB2 are/was required to obtain this permit for these types of events. One of the main hurdles of obtaining this permit is to have adequate liability insurance that meets the requirements of the BLM for such event, which also costs quite a bit to obtain.

As for who is on the committee, I was asked to be a member as my business and myself/A Wind Of Change are one of many who are making financial contributions to help support this event and keep the cost to attend at a minimum. We also proudly sponsored NABX for many years, both financially as well as donations to auctions, raffles etc... For others who are also on the board/committee, I will let them announce as they wish.

I love Ivanpah and what it gives to us as a community and as a memorable place to ride. I feel that Ivanpah IS the best buggying location on the earth and hope that we can always continue to enjoy it. I was very disheartened from the fiasco that enveloped last year, not because of the hassle of NABX, but the consequences that many new buggiers had to face on their first trip to this awesome location. Living in Las Vegas, I had the privilege of visiting Ivanpah pretty much every weekend. I felt bad for those that planned for months, if not an entire year, saved up their hard earned cash in this poor economy, took time off work to be there only to find out everything was messed up and what they hoped to see was not going to happen. IB2 emerged part because of these events.

Ivanpah can be enjoyed by anyone pretty much any time of the year. You don't need to come only during IBB, but if you choose to do so, yes it will cost a minimal entry fee but I am pretty sure what you will get out of it will be well worth it.

I look forward to meeting everyone next year on the lake bed. I hope that IBB will be everything that people expect from an event and more.




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[*] posted on 11-25-2013 at 10:30 PM






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[*] posted on 11-25-2013 at 10:50 PM


Quote: Originally posted by xtemekiter  

and who are these people and businesses who are making these decisions for the "community"?


You are, right here, right now. Tell 'em what you want to experience, express your desires, dreams, ambitions, expectations. Ask how you can help. Volunteer your services. Design an challenge or event that you feel is critical to the experience and follow through with it all the way to execution.

This is not FOR you, it's ABOUT you and everyone else who wants to play in Buggy Heaven for a week with friends, new and old. Be a part of that in the fullest sense of the term.




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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 10:31 AM


So let me get this straight, you want me to pay before you let me try your goods that you couldn't sell in your store?

What happen to the common good of the friendship and the bond of like minded kiters? sounds like yall just wanted a place with a large target group to peddle your goods.

As far as trying other gear? I learned quick that this group was like a family who didn't hesitate to let you try their gear, guess that's coming to an end real quick! what a shame!

From sharing to paying! that is fantastic!

Glad permits are still free! :crazy:
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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 11:42 AM


Hmmm... and I thought I was cheap. I don't think anyone is twisting your arm to attend this event. To put on an event of the size is going to cost someone(s) some money. If you don't want to put your hard-earned to cover the cost of being a part of it... don't be a part of it. Easy. I would gladly pay to be there... it is more a matter of fuel costs and time off work for me.



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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 11:44 AM


Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
(sure would be much appreciated with some team riders helping out, hint hint.)



I was wondering what that ringing in my ear was :)




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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 01:04 PM


Xtremekiter, you don't seem to understand what Jeff was talking about.

1. All the dealers, distributors, and manufacturers, have to pay a vendors fee to exhibit and show there goods. This pool of money goes into the funding of this event. Without them an event ticket could cost you $100 or more. Got to pay for tents, food, Porta Johns, trash and cleanup etc.

2. It cost these fellows a lot of money to be there. They also have give-a-ways, stickers and t-shirts and product brochures. Even labor $'s to man the booth.

3. Most of the dealers, etc. are great guys and gals. Some of the best power kiters and kite buggy pilots in the sport! They'll talk to you about any aspect of the sport, educate you to be a better pilot and a safer one as well. They'll be happy to show you all about their "goods that they peddle." THAT'S THEIR JOB!

4. As this sport evolves in the USA and the world, you'll get to see what's "New and Improved." Stuff you might need or want in the future, especially safety gear.

5. When you meet the suppliers to the sport you build relationships and trust with them 'cause you looked them in the eye. So when you need parts or a new buggy, kites or used gear, you'll be assured of getting a good deal and good service from them. They want to meet you.

6. All this gear we see for sale used here on the PKF had to come from dealers, distributors, and manufacturers from somewhere!

7.When dealers, distributors, and manufacturers have Demo gear for people to try, that gear automatically becomes used and can't be sold as new, only used. They lose their profit margins when they have to close them out at a discount. It's their cost to advertise their business along with the vendors fee.

8. The event is also a show. All the parts have to be there to make it a fulling experience for all that come.
Have you ever been to a car show or a NASCAR race? A dog show? Try to buy a car without some sales pressure.
Vendors in our sport have only a few events a year to "peddle" to a large target group of like minded kiters. IBB/NABX is our Super Bowl and I'm glad they'll be there to enhance the bond, the common good, and the friendship.

9. We all have to support this event if we are to maintain the tradition of the best damn place in the world to kite buggy! This is an international event where the World comes to visit US. It's no more just a bunch of hippies living out of a van, gettin dirty and stinky, out on the playa, playing with their kites, singing "cumb by yah" around the camp fire. It has evolved into a major event because of the growth of this sport.

10. And if you pay for nothing then we will change your name to xtremecheapscape!

11. You can always try a friends gear for free. But to use the latest and the greatest you need to pony up the $50 bucks for the event. You just can't come out there, trash out everybody's gear, eat, use the Porta John's, make trash and not support the event. What are you a party/gate crasher? Fence jumper? "What happen to the common good of the friendship and the bond of like minded kiters?" Pleaseeeeeeeee. All that and more will be there with or without you. Pay up your fair share!

12. It takes dealers, distributors, manufacturers and event planners to make this event a "family affair". You in or out?




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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 02:35 PM


I am suggesting that we, as a family start a charity fund for xtemekiter.
It's painfully obvious that he's broke and to keep him from peeing in the bushes, and eating for free,
standing under a tent when it blows so he will have a good time.
I will donate the first $5.00 for his ticket. And I will make him a free t-shirt as well.

Any one else want to donate?

Hey xtremekiter, want some cheese with that whine?




The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.

Zebra Z2 2.5m small stripped horse but WOW!
Zebra Z2 3.2m zippy racer oldie but goodie.
Zebra 3.4m Checka, striped pony with Jaundice.
Zebra Z1 5m It's got the size, it's got the speed!
Ozone Access 4m de-power foil.
Wipika 5m, like new! dean Jordan said it should be in a kite museum. (for sale)
Cabrinha Nitro 12m Recon 2 (for sale)
Ivanpah heavy
NAPKA - US47
OOBE Field Dirt Diver, Toilet Paper ASSassin. I am NKBRA Kite Buggy Police Man Obe Scuddly.
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xtemekiter




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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 03:47 PM


That would be awesome! keep the donations coming, oh by the way I have an RV, so no peeing in the bush or need for your tent or your cheesy t-shirt.

What? are you actually trying to make me feel guilty? like I give a #@%$#! what you or anyone else thinks of my questioning? If memory serves me right it was a certain individual whining about 100 bucks in every forum they had the chance to post in, so who's the whiner?:P pfffft

Lets make one thing clear "THIS IS PUBLIC LAND" I can come and do as I please and I guarantee you I will have a good time, have been for years and will continue every year first week of April.
just because some greedy dudes decided to hijack this from other greedy dudes don't mean squat to me. have fun in your tent and your cheesy t shirt.

Sorry your attempt of public shaming failed miserably, how ever I will still take your donation and use it for new gear.
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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 04:49 PM


Public land is not the issue here.

I don't know how to answer that logic. Greedy dudes? Really!

Peace brother.




The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.

Zebra Z2 2.5m small stripped horse but WOW!
Zebra Z2 3.2m zippy racer oldie but goodie.
Zebra 3.4m Checka, striped pony with Jaundice.
Zebra Z1 5m It's got the size, it's got the speed!
Ozone Access 4m de-power foil.
Wipika 5m, like new! dean Jordan said it should be in a kite museum. (for sale)
Cabrinha Nitro 12m Recon 2 (for sale)
Ivanpah heavy
NAPKA - US47
OOBE Field Dirt Diver, Toilet Paper ASSassin. I am NKBRA Kite Buggy Police Man Obe Scuddly.
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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 04:58 PM


Given that IBB is a non-profit, I can only assume that the "greedy" ones you refer to are business owners that are part of the committee. I could hardly call them greedy for wanting to be a part of what is arguably the "Mecca" of this sport you/I/they enjoy. Maybe some will pad their wallet a bit in the process, but isn't selling kites/gear kind of their whole livelihood. If these "greedy" ones do make money wouldn't it only be because they are selling what we the people are buying? Idk.... maybe I'm just one of those greedy ones because I show up to work in the mornings...



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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 05:13 PM


I am glad to see that some people get it. Individual use permit and an event permit two totally different things. Best of luck to the IBB organizers, it's no easy task pulling off big events, I am still hoping I will be there to share with everyone!







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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 05:34 PM


he seems so humble to accept you $$$. if you give him money I will wish the worst on you all! We pay to play that is the nature to any hobby! Is this hobby exhilarating??/ HELL YES!!! If I gotta talk smack and someone will pay my way well I'll start with Jeff!!!! J/K! I pay more in bottle deposits in a year (beer/soda/water) than I would on1 trip to IBB! In My Opinion its a stael to meet up with peeps that share and have shared my passion for many years! so Please don't feel compelled to bring a 'ddebbie ddowner' to this event when deciding to bring 'a brroke fool' to this event vote 'ME'! the name you Know! Get your own self there the rest of us will meet you!
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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 05:53 PM






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[*] posted on 11-26-2013 at 06:08 PM


Your logic seems pretty xteme to me ?

Can you explain how it is logical to call a new Non-Profit group greedy ? The individuals that I know who are VOLENTEERING their time and efforts to keep this event alive are some of the LEAST greedy people I have ever met ? I feel certain that they are far more likely to come out of this out of pocket ( I know it has happened to one of them at SOBB ) rather than with padded pockets. I applaud them for taking the chance. I think it is completely wrong to be calling them greedy ! They deserve an apology or at least an explanation of how you justify that in your xteme mind.

Not all of us have campers to poop in. If people showed up at Ivanpah in the numbers that NABX had grown to without any special provisions and simply individual use permits the BLM would run us out of there. I believe that BLM have rules about gatherings of this size and those rules include insurance + a few other spendy things , I'm sure. Things that we can't get away from if we choose to hold large gatherings on Ivanpah.

The big tent creates a fantastic place for those who have paid up to share in family style meals and parties etc.. That sharing is what makes the event an event . I would rather do that than hole up in a camper, or tent? It all costs.


If this event was simply a date on the calendar and a free for all I am certain it would fall apart. Is that REALLY your vision on how this event should go ? :crazy:

I see kite companies giving money, meals , swag, donated raffle items, demos and their time. You somehow see them being greedy ? Your cup is sooo half empty ! :rolleyes:





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