Sumanitu
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-9-2013
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Is there any reason to use FB over DP kites?
Is there any reason, besides cost, to use a fixed bridle kite over a depower kite for ATB/buggy/snow?
I'm still new to traction kiting, but I've used 3 kite surfing kites, a couple depower foils, a 2 line, 3 line, and 4 line FB kites with bar, handles,
and a turbo bar.
It seems that flying a depower kite all the time would be much easier if price isn't the issue. The added complication of dealing with the bridles and
parts is also a non issue if you are ignoring price and just focusing on performance while the kite is in the air. Are there other benefits to a FB?
Low end, turning speed, airspeed of kite, etc?
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Houston AirHead
Posts: 1165
Registered: 6-10-2009
Location: Houston
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Mood: Smooth winds
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easier to set up, carry... only has two modes.... full power and stop! cheaper.....
2011 17 Best Taboo
2008 Caution Mayhem 9m
Flysurfer Speed 5 15m
Legend 3
Ace II 8 - for sale rarely used....
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Sumanitu
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-9-2013
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" easier to set up, carry... only has two modes.... full power and stop! cheaper..... "
My 10m ozone access is just as easy to set up and carry as my 5m ozone octane with handles or turbo bar. I'm debating selling the octane and bar, and
getting a 6m access for when the wind actually manages to get much over 10mph where I live. But I JUST got the access, so haven't done comparisons
between the kites in the same wind conditions, etc. I hear FB is more fun for static flying, which I still do more often then ATB. I also plan on
keeping my 3 line 3m Slingshot B3 for teaching friends.
My goals are ATB and eventually snow. It just seems that a FB on the turbo bar is near impossible to control and learn well on an ATB without a
reliable way to turn off power. And with handles, you tire out extremely quickly and have a pull very high on your center of gravity. Strops are
unsafe without a QR so I haven't tried one yet.
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abkayak
Posts: 2271
Registered: 1-7-2012
Location: a.b. NY
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Mood: loving life and becoming wise in simplicity
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you go w/ what you like and feel most comfy about flying....I feel more in my element fb but now that I’m looking to boost (atb)will break out the
depower....I always fb in a bug/static.....I think my set up pak up fb is way easier cause I parapak........they both rock..thank God for ripstop
US-31...Cquad set/ 2.5 Bullet/ 2.6 Viper/ 2.9m Reactor/ 2- 3.5m Bullet/ 3.6 Beamer/ 4m Buster/ 4m Toxic/ 4m Ikon dp/ 4.5 Bullet/ 4.9m Blade/ 5.6
Twister/ 6.6m Blade/ 7.5 Apex/ 9m Fuel/ Phantom I 9,12,15,18/ 2 Flexibugs/ PL Big Foot/ landboards
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Bladerunner
Posts: 9679
Registered: 10-17-2006
Location: Vancouver
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Low end is a good question.
Very few depower kites perform well in extremely low winds. Those that do are very spendy like large speed and some newer LIE race kites. For very low
end on land FB foils have an advantage.
I used a FB quiver my 1st winter on snow and it was troublesome. Often the wind changed as you moved about the lake. A kite that would get me out
there was overpowered once I did... Depower offers more range for those conditions.
I feel much more comfortable jumping with my depower kites.
I have a small foil that doesn't give me any real trouble in crazy strong winds so go to it when I am survival kiting. SO, in my world FB have a place
at both ends to make the most out of the winds but my depower kites are my " go to " kites.
There is no reason you can't also use LEI on land ( since it sounds like you aren't crashing a lot anymore ). They are very popular on snow and work
great with ATB. Less buggy folks use them but ????? It all really comes down to what YOU enjoy flying most !
Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.
Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .
Ken (K2)
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loftywinds
Posts: 85
Registered: 7-22-2013
Location: Queensland, Australia
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I have to say my FB Octane is frustrating, but then again I am kiting in under 10knots. However, I think I am really kiting in 6knots as the winds
here in the tropics is not the same as you guys most likely get in Northern Europe or England, where the wind is heavier and stronger. I wish there is
a universal "speed in knots" that I can see in wind finder, wind alert, seabreeze, etc that is the same knots here as it is in colder climates.
Anyway, to get back to the point, my FB kite I think really would be better off in 15knots or more. Some scoff at flying a fixed bridle at those
speeds, but I really think it the only way I can just dive the kite and park it more easily. But then again maybe I am comparing or trying to land
kite like I do on water with my LEIs and I am noticing nah.... land kiting is really a different style altogether. Hard to say either way at this
stage, but I can assure you flying a LEI in under 15 knots here is like trying to kite with a lead balloon! LEIs here in Australia's tropics needs at
least 18knots consistent and non gusty E to SE. And for the FBs I would say around 15 knots.
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djinnzfree
Posts: 166
Registered: 1-24-2011
Location: east-side Montreal
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Mood: straw-blower-paper!
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I prefer depower. Here near Montreal the wind most of the time is gusty. Most of my buggy buddy ride F-B.
It's a question of preference... like why you prefer g-string intsead of panties or boxer... 
I recently got a new high aspect depower kite... ConceptAir Bull 3.4m²... very happy of the power!! My F-B buddy are jalous!
IKO certified °°°°° snow°°°°°.
ConceptAir Bull 3.4m² depower
Flying Wing SilverFox 2.5
Handmade buggy SS / bigfoot wheel /std wheel / ski for snow & ice
Jest Of Eve Talon UL
Level one Genesis STD
Mystic battle belt seat harness + a waist one from Mystic.
Ozone Flow 2m², Access 6m², Frenzy 9m²
Pansh black&red 4m² / handle Ozone
HQ invento FazerXXL ºSpeedº
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Sier_Pinski
Posts: 189
Registered: 4-27-2013
Location: Missouri City, Texas
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Sumanitu  |
My 10m ozone access is just as easy to set up and carry as my 5m ozone octane with handles or turbo bar. I'm debating selling the octane and bar, and
getting a 6m access for when the wind actually manages to get much over 10mph where I live. But I JUST got the access, so haven't done comparisons
between the kites in the same wind conditions, etc. |
I hope you compare those kites soon. I own the same Octane and plan on getting either a 10m or 8m Access in a year or two.
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bobsalinas
Posts: 100
Registered: 1-11-2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Member Is Offline
Mood: ready to eat dust
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I have bugged with all sizes of FB and have now switched to DP and LEIs however there is a draw back.
Smaller FBs do not pull me up and out of the buggy and relaunch with a LEI standing up can rip you off your feet in a gust as happened to me yesterday
with my 10M. Another thing I noticed was rear end slide
out in part I think due to lots of lift. I like them all and have tons of fun no matter what, experience should tell you what you can get away with
under the conditions your flying in.
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lives2fly
Posts: 580
Registered: 12-17-2009
Location: Outer Hebrides UK
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+1 for what Bladerunner said.
On land i prefer FB for low end and very high end. In very low wind speed you can use the speed and efficiency of the kite to generate power and at
very high windspeeds (30kt+) you can use a very small foil - i find it easir to manage in those sort of winds.
I don't have a traction kite smaller than 3.5m at the noment though and prefer to head on to the water if its 30kt.
Static flying is definately also more fun with a fixed bridle and i prefer to buggy with them because i like to use handles buggying.
I would would recommend open or closed cell depower foils for landboarding or snow kiting. LEI are also good. I started on snow with them but mostly
use my foils now. Unless you also want to kitesurf I would stick with foils.
15m Naish Fly,12m & 7.5m Naish Cults, 10m & 12m Naish Parks, 9m Naish Bolt, 6m & 14m Naish X3's, 13m PL Venom, 10m & 6m Ozone
Access,
1.5m flexi Buzz, 3.5m Flexifoil Bullet, 4.7m flexi Rage, 5.6m PL Twister II, 6.6m flexi Blade, 8.0m HQ Toxic
Flexdeck Landboard, Nobile Flying Carpet 160, Airush Switch 142, Slingshot Misfit 136, Naish Monarch 134, North Whip 5'8", Fischer Skis,
Palmer & Drake Snowboards.
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g-force junkie
Posts: 258
Registered: 11-21-2009
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No reason to use fb over depower!!! If you want lots of hassle and very little kiting then go fb. If you want epic sessions over and over then go
depower. check all the injuries due to fb vs depower. depower = pain free sessions. if you think you are faster on fb you are wrong, lei's win hands
down on course racing every time with foils and fb's coming in last.
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lives2fly
Posts: 580
Registered: 12-17-2009
Location: Outer Hebrides UK
Member Is Offline
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If fixed bridle kites did not have their place nobody would make them and nobody would buy them. They ARE the best kites for static flying.
Not sure what G-force means by "course racing" but I have not seen FB's, Depower foils and LEI competing in the same races before so it would be cool
if he or someone else could link a video????
Snow races are usually a bunch of LEI with the odd flysurfer Speed thrown in. same on the water.
15m Naish Fly,12m & 7.5m Naish Cults, 10m & 12m Naish Parks, 9m Naish Bolt, 6m & 14m Naish X3's, 13m PL Venom, 10m & 6m Ozone
Access,
1.5m flexi Buzz, 3.5m Flexifoil Bullet, 4.7m flexi Rage, 5.6m PL Twister II, 6.6m flexi Blade, 8.0m HQ Toxic
Flexdeck Landboard, Nobile Flying Carpet 160, Airush Switch 142, Slingshot Misfit 136, Naish Monarch 134, North Whip 5'8", Fischer Skis,
Palmer & Drake Snowboards.
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kitingdodo
Posts: 4
Registered: 2-7-2013
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
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Many arguments were given already: price depower >> Fixed briddle (also add the non-optional harness costs !), Wind range depower > Fixed
briddle, and an incidental power DP << FB
With 1-2 bft you are better off with a 8-11 m2 FB than with a 15m2 Speed III DLX, simply because the Speed does fly, but gives no power. The Blade 8.5
is much easier to control then, as the Speed will collaps every now and then, especially inland where conditions are less constant (more gusty, but
more important more power drops) than at sea. ALternatively I will take my Libre Vampir Race Pro's or similar kites. The power issue is clearly
demonstrated by the buggy-racers. Close to 100% use FB, simply because of power.
But I also fly very large deltas for ATB and snow like e.g. Space kites Matador or S-Kites. These are 2-liners with a very high power/m2, but not for
the inexperienced kiter. Breaking the rods is off course the largest disadvantage when flying these kites, apart from restart when kite is on its
belly. They do not perform like the best race kites, but do outperform many DP and FB kites. 50km/h at 4 bft can easily be achieved at the beach with
an ATB. These large deltas may even be parked (no sinussing required) while flying. When sinussing, mind not to cross the power zone completely, the
lift and drop is quite different from a DP kite :-)
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lives2fly
Posts: 580
Registered: 12-17-2009
Location: Outer Hebrides UK
Member Is Offline
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Those deltas look awesome! I want one.
15m Naish Fly,12m & 7.5m Naish Cults, 10m & 12m Naish Parks, 9m Naish Bolt, 6m & 14m Naish X3's, 13m PL Venom, 10m & 6m Ozone
Access,
1.5m flexi Buzz, 3.5m Flexifoil Bullet, 4.7m flexi Rage, 5.6m PL Twister II, 6.6m flexi Blade, 8.0m HQ Toxic
Flexdeck Landboard, Nobile Flying Carpet 160, Airush Switch 142, Slingshot Misfit 136, Naish Monarch 134, North Whip 5'8", Fischer Skis,
Palmer & Drake Snowboards.
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kitingdodo
Posts: 4
Registered: 2-7-2013
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
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A problem to think of: A folded S-Kite 3.1 has a length of about 2.20m, which is a problem for nearly all shipping companies. The Spacekites Matador,
when folded, does about 1.70m, which is easier wrt shipping and taking in your car. You can find more info on Their site or see some flying at Youtube
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