I recently started buggying with an Apex III 5m. Last time I was out with it I accidently activated the quick release on the chicken loop. I’m not sure how I did it but the next thing I saw was my kite floating down wind.

The question I have is whether anyone uses a safety leash on their Apex’s? I think you can connect one to the middle of the webbing/strap that crosses the brake lines. One thing I’m not sure off is whether the kite will totally depower when loaded solely by the brake webbing/strap. I’d hate to accidently (or deliberately) deploy the quick release only to find that my kite turned into a drag chute and still had enough power to cause me issues.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Iain

I use to attach my leash to the landing line on my Access in the same manner in which you describe for the reason you mentioned on your Apex. I think if necessary it would have killed the kite enough but it definitely would have done the drag chute thing for a while especially if the kite was in its upper limits. To me, the top hat safety should be an obsolete thing of the past to 1) prevent accidental deployment while reaching for a trimmer or landing strap and 2) because it doesn't offer a 100% kill / depower like a 5th line would.

IMO 5th line safeties should be the standard for open cell foils. I hate when I pop a top hat and the kite starts to die and then reverse launches off the ground with some power and now can 't be effectively controlled.

Thanks B-Roc, maybe I'd be safer without a safety leash.

Most safety leashes have some kind of a release in case the kite doesn't fully depower or at least depower to a manageable state.

ATB,
Sam

Good point, I guess pulling one quick release after the other shouldn't be an issue.

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

IMO 5th line safeties should be the standard for open cell foils. I hate when I pop a top hat and the kite starts to die and then reverse launches off the ground with some power and now can 't be effectively controlled.

I personally feel total opposite. Not saying at all B-roc does not know what he is talking about or is wrong. I think you will see good points from both of us and hopefully with discussions like this there will be something even better to come out of it.
I will start with the top hat safety. I personally like this style of safety for the following reasons. Simplicity, less lines (no 5th line to create drag), bar stays with pilot (still able to steer the kite to the ground after popping the safety), no bar shooting away to get hung up on something or hit something. Un tested .. but I believe will still release with twisted lines. I have first hand seen a 5th line safety fail. Of course it was worst case scenario but that is when you need that safety to work. Here is the story .. I dont remember exactly how it started but a wing tip got hung up on the kite so the kite goes into a slow spin .. pilot tries to save it but unable .. now there is number of twists in the line from the kite spinning .. pilot decides he cant save it so pops the safety .. bar releases and goes just out of pilots reach ... bar gets hung in the twists and will not release all the way .. kite still powered and spinning faster now totally out of control .. pilot cant reach the bar and getting drug .. finally able to release kite completely and watch it float away.
So that brings me to why I dont personally care for the 5th line set up. Basically I answered it above but I will elaborate more. The 5th line .. more drag and just one more line to deal with.. replace, untangle, etc. when you deploy the 5th line the bar goes shooting away from the pilot. 2 negatives here .. bar is gone so you no longer have any kind of control whats so ever ... second maybe you had to release the safety because you were about to run into someone or you were to close. Well when you do there is a good chance they might just take a bar up side the head.

The good points of the 5th line is the ability to kill all power. This has advantage when at the total upper limits of the pilots skills. I hear especially if on a frozen lake or something where you dont have much traction. I personally fly on grass or sand so I have lots of traction and I also weigh 250# so I make a good anchor. I feel this is a probably a big reason why I dont feel the need to personally have the 5th line so I wanted to make sure I mentioned that. The pilot and conditions I know will play a big roll in which style is best for them. I dont say either safety is bad as they are both better than nothing, but I dont feel either is perfect either
stepping of the box now

[rquote]=251350&tid=25789&author=DAKITEZ
I personally feel total opposite.

I dont say either safety is bad as they are both better than nothing, but I dont feel either is perfect either
stepping of the box now [/rquote]

All very valid points that you make, the most valid of which, IMO, is the riding surface. I'm light (145#s) and I ride on smooth sand or slick ice / snow.

I'm going to use my 14m as an example. It uses a rear line safety system. If I fly that kite in its upper limits (11-14 mph for me depending upon how clean the air is) and drop the kite on its safety, it still presents probably 8 or so meters of fully inflated kite to the wind which means it has a lot of power in certain conditions and on certain surfaces almost always means I'm being dragged. Now if that kite had a 5th line (and it will by the end of the summer) I could pop that, taco the kite and let it fall to the ground with zero power. So for me that is the desired outcome.

Tophat safeties are probably fine (and well suited) for smaller kites but in hurricaine conditions even my 4m Access was a pain when dropped on the tophat or landing line as it always relaunched and flapped around violently 12-20' off the ground. Not with a whole ton of power but at too steep an angle to stay secured by most groundstakes (it would slip off or pull them out).

Now I can see the concern of a 5th line becoming bound but mine all have spinning chicken loops and the chicken loop stays attached when the line is deployed so in theory it should unspin itself and not bind but I know not all kites use spinning chicken loops and I do agree that a bound safety with a bar now out of reach and a rider attached is a terrible scenario.

So we both agree that is not where one wants to find oneself we just disagree on what safety system leads one to that scenario with a higher degree of frequency.

Good discussion. I'm glad you shared your point of view.