So I was just thinking to my self, "Self, I wonder how to most easily start a fight on the forums..." Simultaneously, I also wanted to know what the PKF kiting community thought of this relatively sedate question:

What Depower Kite do you think is the best of all time (to date)?

In my painfully limited experience, I'm going to start the discussion with my personal best depower -- The PL Venom I 13m. I want MOAR!

What do you like? Adam? EXtremeBox? F-Arc? Wainman? HQ Montana? Access? FlySurfer? North? Best?

Haha, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

Oh, sorry.

I have no idea. What's depower again?

Looking at it from an industry point of view, I would have to say the Frenzy would be the best of all time. Ozone pretty much wrote the book on depower and since the release of the Frenzy, there has been tons of innovations brought to the market such as the Re-Ride system, leashless system, double pully depower system, crossover bridles, parking loops on the bar/leaders, side load release chicken loops, safety's that can be released and connected with ease, even with gloves on, etc... etc... Ozone has brought quite a bit to our market in both user friendliness and safety.

Most depowerable kites set the Frenzy as their benchmark to measure up against.

As for innovation, the twinskin design is a true work of engineering. The F-Arc would get my vote as the most wicked depower ever.

Rather than a specific kite, I'd like to suggest a couple of technological innovations:

The bow kite patent by Bruno Legaignoux for LEI kites. The leading edge bridle that lets the kite depower hugely, and the swept back tips that keep the trailing edge tensioned thru aerodynamic forces. Brilliant. Think Xbows, Turbo Diesels, and a boatload of kites since then.

Peter Lynn twinksins. The only frameless, self-supporting depower kites I can think of that are auto-stable in both pitch and yaw. Brilliant again.

krumly

The 2 kites that I reach for are the HQ Montana and PL Phantom II. Both are well engineered and designed kites that I can count on to perform. I don't have any time with a Frenzy to compare with but they have always been highly regarded.

I would defiantly say the venom series is the best all round kite ive flown, wickef stabke, user friendly, lifty and awesome for learning tricks. They are so much fun

my personal choice is the 15m phantom. i learnt so much from flying this kite. and its the best looking kite of all time!!!

If we look at the sport over time, many kites have made bigger advances than others. The phantom and frenzy both are definitely close to the top if not the top of this list. However, they have both been surpassed now, the frenzy (IMHO and I'm an owner of one) by the arcs and flysurfer. Peter lynn has outdone itself over and over again.

All good points .

I very much agree with what is said about the Frenzy and Phantom . Not much Frenzy experience but my 18m Phantom just keeps growing on me ! Best graphics for sure!

Probably the kite that changed things the most was Wipika ??? Bruno Legaignoux is the same designer, I believe . With the inflated bladder the sport exploded on water .

My all time favorite is the 15m Synergy but I think that is very much a personal choice.

Open cell, Frenzy. We all started with Frenzies here where I live as the a first depower. Then I won a 13m Venom 1 and never looked back.

Closed cell all rounder for me is a toss up between the Venom 2 and the Phantom 2. Very similar in some ways but very different.

Gin Eskimo III series... any size but the 10m is my all time favorite.

I'd have to say the venom 13m. I had an awesome static jumping session today. The guerilla 15m is a close second because it is amazingly floaty. Though that may change when I try out my brand new F-arcs that arrived today.

Does anyone have back to back experience with a modern Frenzy and Montana? The Montana VI and VII is what I've often called a perfect kite. I just wonder if the Frenzy really is better comparing latest versions. I recently heard of a Mfg. competitor saying the Montana was probably the best open cell foil available right now. Anyone have a Frenzy I can take for a ride at nabx in a few weeks? Or any other time this spring. Probably something in the 7-10m range. Or both. :bigok: I'll post up how they stack up against each other.

Woohoo! My new kite has been endorsed as the best kite evar by The Bullet! (it arrives Wednesday). ;-)

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Originally posted by carltb my personal choice is the 15m phantom. i learnt so much from flying this kite. and its the best looking kite of all time!!!

I'm going to have to change my earlier statement. My new choice for best depower ever is the f-arc 1200. It's a static jumping machine! In 12-16mph winds I was jumping 15 feet easy. If I ran I could go about 20 feet. I could have went higher if I didn't have all my heavy snow gear on and if the ground wasn't slippery from the inch of snow. The float is amazing! On my venom, once I go over about 10-15 feet up, It hurts my feet and knees when I land. Not on the f-arc! It sets you down nice and gentle. I attempted a heli-loop and mistimed it and fell on my back from 15 feet up. I barely felt hitting the ground! It doesn't have as much depower as a modern kites but It has a good 50% depower. It's fast too. It's about the same as my venom. I haven't boarded with it yet but I'm sure it's going to be awesome. I would go so far as to call it the "blade" of arcs, and maybe of depower. :singing:

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Originally posted by Snake I'm going to have to change my earlier statement. My new choice for best depower ever is the f-arc 1200. It's a static jumping machine! In 12-16mph winds I was jumping 15 feet easy. If I ran I could go about 20 feet. I could have went higher if I didn't have all my heavy snow gear on and if the ground wasn't slippery from the inch of snow. The float is amazing! On my venom, once I go over about 10-15 feet up, It hurts my feet and knees when I land. Not on the f-arc! It sets you down nice and gentle. I attempted a heli-loop and mistimed it and fell on my back from 15 feet up. I barely felt hitting the ground! It doesn't have as much depower as a modern kites but It has a good 50% depower. It's fast too. It's about the same as my venom. I haven't boarded with it yet but I'm sure it's going to be awesome. I would go so far as to call it the "blade" of arcs, and maybe of depower. :singing:

really? hmmm I might have to give one of these a try. boosting bigger with more float that then venom? that would be insane. I know Feyd talks really highly of this kite. I guess it's time to test

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Originally posted by flyjump really? hmmm I might have to give one of these a try. boosting bigger with more float that then venom? that would be insane. I know Feyd talks really highly of this kite. I guess it's time to test

Message AWOC about getting some. I haven't flown the 1600 for more than 30 seconds so I can't comment about it much. The 1200 is sweet though. The kite was way ahead of it's time. I bet it would have been way mor popular if launching and relaunching was better. Adding vpc could get rid of the loose rear lines and add some turning speed (but it still turns pretty fast).

The jumps are also more up and down than my venom or guerilla. There is less floating downwind because of the high L/D, which I belive is around 8.

that sounds awesome. My favorite jumping arc was the 16m scorpion because it had more vertical lift than other arcs. Not the best with float, but man would it take you for a ride. I'm in love with my 14m montana for super light wind and for hangtime, and though I have gone big with it, the kite doesn't have a strait vertical lift that I am used to. I won't be giving up the montana, but it might be fun to have a "jumping only" kite in the backseat of the car. If you can get some pictures or video I would much appreciate it. since most people who have the farc don't jump with it, i have never really given it any thought. Now i want to give it a try myself. you have caught my interest

Feyd does a small jump in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLBuJIRwxM
Here is a thread I made about the f-arc:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=24606
Here is a page on AWOC.com that has some old f-arc jumping vids:
http://www.awindofchange.com/photo.html
I will upload the videos of me today later.

holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i've never seen any hangtime equal to that of the 1600 on a pl kite! how have i never seen that F16 jumping video????? That even rivals hangtime and lift on the new depower kites. I want one

There is an interesting ( but sloppy ) move in the F16 video at 2:00. Boy HD is a wonderful thing!

The guy jumps and tries a rotation without holding onto the bar. Not sure I have seen that before?

Careful with that 1200 Snake. Mine so nearly blew out my ACL that I was afraid of it and sold it. ( only to get it back ) It doesn't ALWAYS let you down easy. PAD UP ! :wee:

I know about being dropped Bladerunner. Sometimes I swing the kite back too far and fall a few feet. It hasn't been that kigh that I've falled though. Today when I was attempting that heli-loop(it seemed like a good idea) I over flew the kite and fell a few feet befor the kite caught me. I began to flail around in the air and fell on my back. This alarmed some police officers who were watching me and they approched me and my mother. I talked to them a bit and then they wanted to see some jumps. I did a few good 10-15 foot jumps and they were impressed. Then I timed a jump on a gust and boosted bigger than I ever had before. One of the officers yelled wow and they were in awe. I redirected 3 or 4 times before I had a nice soft landing. They told me I was crazy and then they got a call and had to leave. I've flown the 1200 once and I had more 20+ foot jumps in an hour than I have had in the 40 or so I have had on my venom. This kite is definately a keeper.

As of right now, I only have one F1600 left in stock. I do have 4 F1200's left. First come - first serve. The F-Arc is an amazing machine for sure.

I love how you guys are still talking about getting "some" f-arcs (ie, more than just one. ) It cracks me up. No pun intended...you guys have a problem

i definatly have a big problem buying kites lol

I love how you guys are still talking about getting "some" f-arcs (ie, more than just one. ) It cracks me up. No pun intended...you guys have a problem

Proletariat- you should get an f-arc or two Then you would have a cruzing quiver and an agressive quiver. I love my guerilla's gentleness but sometimes I just want to be agressive with my kites, thats when I would switch to my f-arc's. The venom can go both ways depending on how fast I turn it.