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Author: Subject: Official Info from BLM
Wolfpaklv




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 07:33 PM
Official Info from BLM


As all of you may already know NABX has failed to gain a permit for the event this year. I feel responsible to pass along info that has been given to me. Elaine Downing, with the BLM, has sent the following info:

Quote:
"43 CFR 2932.57 : Prohibited acts and penalties:

(a) Prohibited acts. You must not -
(1) Fail to obtain a Special Recreation Permit (SRP) and pay the fees required by this subpart.
(2) Violate the stipulations or conditions of a permit issued under this subpart;
(3) Knowingly participate in an event or activity subject to the permit requirements of this subpart if BLM has not issued a permit;
(4) Fail to post a copy of any commercial or competitive permit where all participants may read it;
(5) Fail to show a copy of your SRP upon request by either a BLM employee or a participant in your activity;
(6) Obstruct or impede pedestrians or vehicles, or harass visitors or other persons with physical contact while engaged in activities covered under a permit or other authorization; or
(7) Refuse to leave or disperse, when directed to do so by a BLM law enforcement officer or State or local law enforcement officer, whether you have a required SRP or not.

It is a citable offense for people to knowingly participate in an event or activity if BLM has not issued a permit! If all out there have a casual use permit, they will be fine.....the problem will be if they participate in any organized activities that Dean might try and organize. Everyone needs to do their own thing - no competition; no courses; no racing; no prizes; no sales of any merchandise; no advertising; no timing equipment; no filming; nothing left on the dry lake unless someone is camping, no potties; no large event tents! Just folks out having a good time with their wind powered toys." -Elaine Downing, BLM


I'm not trying to incite a riot, just passing on the info. Elaine is a wonderful person and some of you regulars have probably met her. Its a shame it has worked out this way. I know most of you already have tickets to come out. If any of you have any questions feel free to call the BLM @ (760) 326-7000 or call me at (702) 813-6480.

Hope this helps you all gain a little transparency.




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 07:51 PM


Tell them not to worry the goofy one won't be coming around and crashing this year......this is a serious bummer......



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:06 PM


Was the permit rejected? Also would we need to obtain a rec permit and if so how?



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:13 PM


I had plan ahead and got my own permit. I never intended to be part of the event since I don't do the racing thing. I just like to come there to buggy and hang out with friends. I also plan to come back during other time of the year so I'm not really affected by the cancellation.

If anyone shows up, look me up to say HI.




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Wolfpaklv




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:16 PM


No they didn't reject the permit. The paperwork was not filed on time. The BLM's hands were tied. They are a federal organization and must abide by the rules.

As a local and custodian of Ivanpah, I'm here to help. Unfortunately I can't help people without permits. And they will not issue anymore till after the "unofficial gathering". For those of you with permits already its business as usual. Let me know if you need anything.




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van


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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:24 PM


So does that means that for those that already paid, they will get a refund ?



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:41 PM


dean posted that he would get us that paid his fee a permit, is this true? will I have a permit? or will I be going to Alvord. Thanks Brian for letting us know WTH is going on.



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:52 PM


This may be why Elaine called and left a message today re my Permit request.

My guess is that I will be denied until after the "event"

It has been said that all the pre-registered will have a permit. At what point will those Permits be in hand so that we are positive that we are allowed to be there?
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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 08:59 PM


So our path forward has to be to abide by the rules and just ride together. The first week in April will hopefully be a couple hundred passionate kiters instead of our local dozen. We need not mess up the opportunity to have an official event in the future. Nabx might be a little different this year but it doesn't have to end, be cancelled, or go away.

For me, the true joys of what has been nabx has been getting to have the laughs and conversations when the wind isn't blowing and being able to ride with so many friends when the wind does blow.




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:02 PM


I requested a permit also, guess I need to call in the morning.
This really screws things up for me, I have to be in Veges on the 2nd to drop off my grandsons and then pick them up on the 6th to come home. The air fair is paid for and is not refundable for the wife to join us. If no permits are being sent out until after the 7th I guess we could all......maybe I need to sleep on it and call Elaine in the morning. Then I will know what I will do.




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:03 PM


Bobby, sounds fine to me but the question is do I have a permit? I hate to drive 700 miles turn around and go home. sounds fishy



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:04 PM


Irrespective of what goes down I am still on my way.

Pointless wasting 4K staying at home




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:07 PM


Anyone that has a permit can have guests. Anyone can be my guest and I imagine every other permit holder would also allow visitors to be on the lakebed as their guest as well.



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MDK


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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:12 PM


Bobby, may I be your guest? :)



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:27 PM


The more I think about this the hotter I am getting. It is so very hard to bite my tongue and not say things.......ARGGGGGGG

Guess I could go to Harper for the week or stay at the pre event a bit longer. Has to be somewhere I could go to have a bit of dust eating fun. Guess I could put a lot more into the trip to WW and Jibe. At least they got their act together on time.




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:27 PM


wow, there aren't many ppl registered. I thought I had but I guess in my late-2012 life-mess I didn't register. well poop. hope I don't have a to burn a week of vacation. With only a few handfuls of people that are registered is it possible to have that many guests and camp on the playa? I, and assuming like many, need to figure this out pretty quick.



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:38 PM


I think I am figuring this out now, apparently if we paid a NABX fee we are part of a club now and for being a club member we get a permit that would be free if we obtained it ourselves, and I guess a couple other unknown cool things. interesting..... sounds like we are being asked to ride on some faith here. based on the info Bobby has given I will be coming, looking forward.



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:58 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by MDK
I think I am figuring this out now, apparently if we paid a NABX fee we are part of a club now and for being a club member we get a permit that would be free if we obtained it ourselves, and I guess a couple other unknown cool things. interesting..... sounds like we are being asked to ride on some faith here. based on the info Bobby has given I will be coming, looking forward.


I can't imagine there not being plenty of permit holders on hand to keep everyone within good graces with the ranger. Historically there has been a mutual respect between the locals and the ranger. I always enjoy his presence and he knows what ivanpah means to us and how important it's protection is to us. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize that relationship.

I ride there 9 months of the year, not just 1 week.




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Wolfpaklv




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 09:59 PM


Bobby, you may want to clarify this with Elaine. If we say everyone is our guest then we will be putting Elaine in a difficult situation. She made it very clear. "It is a citable offense for people to knowingly participate in an event or activity if BLM has not issued a permit! If all out there have a casual use permit, they will be fine.....the problem will be if they participate in any organized activities that Dean might try and organize. Everyone needs to do their own thing - no competition; no courses; no racing; no prizes; no sales of any merchandise; no advertising; no timing equipment; no filming; nothing left on the dry lake unless someone is camping, no potties; no large event tents! Just folks out having a good time with their wind powered toys." -Elaine Downing, BLM" Yes, we are allowed to have guests. But she was very clear about us supporting the event. If you haven't already purchased air fair, you may want to make other plans.

I'm a huge advocate for growing the sport. But there is something to be said about what is going on here. Lets not mess this up for the future. If you guys are thinking about throwing a gathering still I will not condone it! I will not allow you guys to jeopardize the future of the dry lake. There is a bigger picture to look at here. Even if NABX doesn't survive I will do everything in my power to make sure Ivanpah will be used by kiters for generations to come!!!




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 10:46 PM


I think we just got the what for :) I can understand Brian's concern, we just need to make sure we have permits and not support any event activities.



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 11:05 PM


My goal here would be to stay within the rules and do just what Elaine mentioned. The motivation would be to save the ride for those that have made plans to travel here and ride the wind.

I will speak with Elaine tomorrow and see where we stand on this. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize the possibility of future events and certainly won't condone anything that would jeopardize my ability to kite buggy there in any way.




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 11:17 PM


The way this has been painted to me is that the "event" is taking place in Primm... I'm not sure what that means. What I do know is there hasn't been an over abundance of "organized racing" in the past and I doubt very highly there will be this year either. So, I would suggest we suit up, show up, act like responsible adults and have the most fun a human being can have with clothes on.

I guess, what happens in Primm, NV. stays in Primm, NV... ?




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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 11:30 PM


I agree with Bobby 100%.



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[*] posted on 2-26-2013 at 11:30 PM


I'm sure the promoter knows this now but from my experience as a promoter of some racing events in the past is that you don't take $ until you have permits in hand...rule #1.



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[*] posted on 2-27-2013 at 01:29 AM


Well I guess that means is I will have to.... do my own thing - not compete; not set up a course; not race; not win a prize; not buy any merchandise; not read any advertising; not time any equipmentm(huh?); not take any film for comercial use; leave nothing on the dry lake; not put up a large event tent! Just have a good time with my wind powered toys.

Ya, I can do that. ;)
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[*] posted on 2-27-2013 at 04:44 AM


While some of what Mr. Holgate says is true, most of it is misleading.

There is nothing official about this post, and Mr. Holgate does not speak for us nor for the BLM.

Please refer to the post i've just put up for more information.

Thank you, stay tuned, support us, you will not be disappointed.

Aoxomoxoa soon~




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[*] posted on 2-27-2013 at 04:59 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by van
I had plan ahead and got my own permit. I never intended to be part of the event since I don't do the racing thing. I just like to come there to buggy and hang out with friends.



I attended last year and am from the UK, didnt race, and any of the racing was more fun stuff and nothing serious and was only on for 30mins top.

In fact I would go so far to say that the racing was pretty non existent and it was more about hanging with friends and having a bit of a buggy, I know that's what I did.

Just in regards to phoning up for permits etc. I don't know how it works in the states so forgive me if I am wrong, but in the UK we had a sort of similar situation with one of our beaches. A club was given permission by a council to moderate the beach and have access to it, others didn't want to join the club and bombarded the council with letters asking for permits to fly etc. This had a negative effect and the council actually said that if it were continue then ALL access to the beach would be cancelled. So in my eyes, I would hold back on everyone saying Im gonna phone Im gonna ask, just in case it all goes Pete Tonge (wrong) and its totally screwed for everyone forever.

I think dean has stated in http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=25048 from how I read it that the team are going to sort permits for everyone, so there isnt a need for you all to phone up!

I hope it all gets sorted and am gutted I wont be there this year, I am going to do my best to return in 2014.

Fly safe
:wee:

nudge PKC




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[*] posted on 2-27-2013 at 05:15 AM


So since I already hold a permit, I guess I will be expecting a refund for both me and my son? What the hell did I pay for?
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[*] posted on 2-27-2013 at 09:08 AM


Not sure what is going on but I was able to get my permit 2 weeks ago. I just sent the BLM an email requesting one, free of charge. It could be that they realize that hundreds of request for permits will be coming in so they put a freeze on the permitting.

I am a permit holder so I can host a few folks myself .. I will be at the opposite end of the lake.




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Engines:
8m charger, 10m Scorpion, 15m phantom, 19m venom, 5m npw9, 8m npw-ha, 9m switchblade , 14m Ozone Catalyst



Rides:
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Wolfpaklv




Posts: 176
Registered: 5-1-2008
Location: Las Vegas, Nv
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Mood: Windy

[*] posted on 2-27-2013 at 09:14 AM


Sorry, but my post was copied and pasted directly from an email from Elaine. I didn't right in your name Dean. She has given us specific instructions not to support your event or "club gathering" or we will lose our permits and potentially be cited. But guys, dont take my word for it. Call the BLM your self. The reason I posted this is because you have not been completely honest with people. Elaine is more than willing to speak with anyone who calls, (760) 326-7000.



Brian Holgate
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