Welcome to Colorado. So, let's pretend for a moment that common sense does NOT prevail and I wanted to fly in this wind. What do you guys think would be the "best" kite for this crap? (Let's pretend its direction changey, too)


Arc?
Tiny depower foil?
LEI/SLE?

All those suggestions would be ok.

High level of depower needed if gusts are double the wind speed. I personally would rule out tiny depower foils although capable they would need a lot of attention to keep flying in those conditions. Basically lull, powerup, lull, powerup etc.

Arc's scare me. I don't have much experience with Arc's or the skills to launch and land in those gusts.

I'd vote LEI Bow kite, 7 - 9m depending on experience, but that's just me. I like the high level of depower and the fact that the kite holds it's shape gives me confidence.

Your ideal kite is one that is going to come bundled with the best health insurance.

That's some challenging wind. I'm not claiming that it cannot be done (on snow, I presume?), but there's a marked difference between 18 knots and 35 knots. At least 2 or 3 kite sizes, I'd venture.

Depending on your weight, common sense in knowing when to quit while you're ahead, and location conditions, I'd say something like an 6-8m depower foil.

-joedy

You could buggy with a 1.7m Sting.

we flew in those winds 20 gusting into the lower 40 mph black friday. the only kites were a 1.2 sting, 3m scout, and 9m flysurfer unity.

it was a huge pain the the butt

There is some variation with weight but if you weigh about 200lbs I would say a 2-3m stable, not aggressive foil. No blades, twisters or aces. A 5-7m depower might do well. I am looking for one for those days. my 8m is too much. my friend's 7m cabrinaha LEI can handle those winds just fine. on land it would be ok, water would be tough.

A 10m Venom or Guerilla could work for you depending on your weight and surface conditions. I have to pay a lot more attention to what the tips are doing if the wind is changing direction and dropping speed - had a few bow ties and inverts.

I have chance to put my kite up in conditions like this few times ..... If its constantly gusting foil kites loose their shape and twist , collapse or pass overhead ....
I would vote for LEI ..... Done it with wind 30-55 mph and it was way easier then flying foil with no above issues ....
Last Tug Hill we have crazy gusty wind too... LEI users have way more fun the guys trying to fight with theirs foils .... except one Arc that stay in air way longer before giving up ...

Ditto RedSky and Kobers view. An lei does hold some advantage in those winds. I'm 150# and even my tame 5m Element is extemely dangerous in those winds. Beware the listed top end of any kite may be fine in smooth winds, but in gusty, rolling , twisting wind , other factors dominate.

This is why I bought a 5m LEI....need the rigid shape to handle the gusts, foils luff & power up too often...seems the right wind for a smallish twinskin, but don't have one so can't compare....

Overall in this wind on ATB it's just no fun, you are moving barely powered in lulls and rocketing too fast on the gusts... possible fun in the buggy though...

Have taken my Slingshot Octane 5m out on ATB in these exact winds and lived to tell the tale...crazy rides, not necessarily fun

While I just simply don't enjoy flying in those conditions after trying Arkay's 1.7m Sting at NABX IT is the kite I would choose .

So safe it's almost boring ! :dunno:

Those are rather typically our conditions.
my tactic is to size for the gusts and do not be afraid to let the kite go and chase it down if you get the size wrong.
this is when I bring out the small tame beginner kites.
As others have said a lot depends on vehicle and conditions -I am in a big buggy on grass, a setup that can handle a lot of overpower.

2.2m PKD Buster soulfly.maybe a 3.3 if I'm hotwired. http://vimeo.com/53914152 We had 15-25 with gusts to 30+ Chris was flyin a 1.5m Buster,and I had the 2.2m.

This is a great discussion!! Thanks for all the input, everyone.

I'm left to ponder these questions as I recover from a non-kite-related surgery, and you should all take a shot at responding to my next thread, "How to Respond When Your Ladyfriend asks what Constitutes a 'Full' Quiver?"

Anywhoo, just before my ear surgery, I was out with my noobness on my 13m LEI and it was about 8(gusting 15+) mph and tons of direction change and really more than I can handle for ATB. Im just not ready for 15+ unless it's steady and im surrounded by pillows, so i had to put away the board.

However, I noticed that once I put away the board, I had no problem at all just flying the kite and sliding around the field and letting the gusts have their way with me (so to speak). It was fun, kinda challenging, and I never felt like I was in real danger like I did while I was trying to decide whether or not to keep boarding (I wear mostly repurposed motorcycle kit for pro, so I don't mind a bit of abuse)

The reason I mention this is because if my kite were flipping around and bowtying and flipping inside out and such, I think I probably would have just packed up. That's a good point about foils being a bit less desirable in changing directions (which we have, like cerebite was saying). Solid argument for LEI.

I would like to say that I really like this forum and that I know this is not the place to day this but would prefer an LEI in those conditions. the foils can collapse and then yank when the wind is changing a lot. Today I was out in gusty 25-40 knots (airport readings) on my landboard and a 6m lei and was having a blast, my 3.6m beamer would have been Dangerous in those gusts.

Those are not unusual conditions for flying here and typically for my tastes, those are 12m Arc winds. Slightly underpowered on the 18mph range and nice powered/OP'd on the high end with lots of depower if needed. Our gust factor is double the base windspeed 90% of the time, no exaggeration, and as s result Arcs are the kite of choice for a lot of us here. I've seen LEIs perform in these winds and they invert and do crazy stuff just like anything else just less prone to it than a bridled foil.

An Arc kite will flex and do all kinds of things but for me that's what I like. It does the contorting so my body doesn't have too and while it does it's crazy things she still flies solidly most of the time. I've seen Molly out in winds like that on the 10m Charger and it looks terrible. The kite is flexing like crazy and it looks nasty as anything but when you look at Molly she's smooth and barely feeling it. You can't see all that flex from the kiter's perspective. The first time I saw it I was amazed and couldn't believe that the kite moves so much.

Any kite in sweeping wind ranges like that is going to be flukey. The real test is when the windspeed doubles while changing direction 90-180 degrees. Which is usually the case here and is why we inflate our Arcs artificially. Gust frequency is also a key factor and why we like our Arcs so much.

Whatever kite you ride in those conditions, a lot of pilot input and anticipation goes a long way to keeping it fun. And a lot depends on how much room you have to manuever. If it's tight like a soccer field, I'll pass.

That's really helpful, Feyd. Like you, I've found that gusts aren't that bad, but the direction changes really give me fits with the arcs (primarily during setup). I was actually just about to contact you to see if you had any used arcs laying around, but I think I found a killer 13m venom for a good price and it'll be the last kite in the quiver for a while. So now I'm at:
LEIs:
6m
8m
13m

Arcs
13m
18m

And I think I've decided I prefer the arcs for gusty, but prefer the LEIs for direction-changy. As long as you're on your game and can keep the lines taut, the LEI's seem to do okay, but yes, I prefer tofly the arcs overall. Wish I could try a new phantom 2 and bar sometime, but that might create a real problem that I'd have trouble shaking.