I have heard from the Jekyll Island Authority that they received a complaint from a member of the public about JIBE. Here is the transcript...

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Good day,
Is there anywhere, or anyone I can raise an issue with regarding the use of kite buggy's on our beaches? Today visited Jekyll Island with my family. It was a crowded day so we walked down a little and had to sit where they were kite buggying by blackbeards. Was asked to move once by a person partaking in the activities. I have 2 small children, 6 and 4. I did not feel safe at all with them on this beach. They were going by us within 10 feet going which must have been close to 30mph! With a 200lb man and probably a 30lb cart, if a small child was to get hit or run over it would probably kill them. I am a resident of the the Brunswick area and visit this beach weekly all year. But I was really drawn away today by this. Please let me know who I can raise this with, it would be much appreciated.

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This is a cautionary tale that I hope is noticed by event planners and participants anywhere in the world. When hosting an event on a public beach or other public venue, it is never appropriate to ask a member of the public to move or change their plans in order to accommodate kiting.

This by itself will not put JIBE in peril (so far, I believe), since the state authority knows that we are generally responsible. I have promised them that this will be treated with the gravity it deserves. We have already dodged the Plover bullet, so we do not need something like this to erode our good will. If anyone knows anything about this, please share with me off-line. I have asked for contact info for the individual in order that I can reach out and apologize.

The rule is that if you cannot pass members of the public outside of the length of your kite lines, then you need to raise the kite to de-power such that the lines are not over someone's head. If you cannot do this or do not have the confident skills to do this, then you should not be there.

Responsible JIBE participants know that under most conditions, there is plenty of room for everybody at this event.

Sorry to rant. Reaching for my blood pressure meds now...

I apologize if you feel this comment is not 'the gravity it deserves', but in reading his complaint, it reads to me as : "I chose to go over to where they were buggying, and then there was a buggy close to me! I can't believe it!" I wasn't at JIBE, so I can't be certain to how crowded it was, but from the videos I have watched and the photos I have seen, there appeared to be plenty of room for everyone.

I want to see all spots expand and grow, and I often turn the other cheek, but sometimes people are very unreasonable in their expectations.

If the gentleman had tried to address this with the other kiters at that moment, perhaps he'd have some closure, as it is now, all he has is a complaint.

It doesn't matter to anyone else that they are encroaching on 'the kite area'. They want to see what is happening and they get close and feel they have that right....and they do unless it is marked otherwise. thanks for posting this Angus

its specific and a local being vocal , just like up at the Hatteras spot.

loose animals by far out weigh" the what if maybe" irritation this guy is feeling. bikes are lethal to most things in their path esp. with fat guys on them.

hmmmm...i've even seen video of out of control animals doing just that!..and ..frequency must be high enough to catch on one 10sec clip. think about that . the joe public has much more to be concerned about,seems more about his neighbors dog, not his neighbors kite!

but so noted ...and anyway picking up some trash on the way out was ok by me , it was the carelessness that left it there that concerns me... i'm sure they also drove a car, hope they didn't run over someones dog or kid on the way out. carelessness unbound ! look out!

I did notice a few people this year who decided that out in the middle of the hardpack right on the edge of buggy camp where buggies and boards were in the highest traffic was a PERFECT place to set up for a day of sunbathing. Yes, they have the right. Yes, they can set up anywhere they please. No, we should not ask them to move, but I also believe they should use common sense to think "hmm, that could be dangerous. Maybe we should not sit in the middle of traffic." My apologies, but things like this piss me off. Granted, the buggy pilot should not have passed so close. That sort of behavior is not sending the right message from our community but joe public, just like joe kiter, needs to show some common sense as well.

Point noted though Angus.

Yeah I don't like sharing either - the WHOLE beach is mine, every foot of it, for what I want to do ONLY. Who can I complain to and spoil everyone else's fun with my unbridled selfishness and stupidity?
... if I ever turn up at JIBE, NABX etc be sure to put a leash on or gag me cos I hate this special kind of moron

Kami, please come to JIBE

Angus,
I read the letter from the "local" and have to think the East Coast is not that far from the West Coast. Could have been the same person who went out on the beach in front of their house and set up the recliner and watched the waves come and go, and chewed us up one side an down the other for destroying the beach.
I have to shake my head at the mind of a person who would tell the beach goer to move, and the beach goer for the lack of tolerance, in fact on both sides.

We are a group of individuals who see the world through the gauge of a wind meter. Everyone else doesn't have a clue. It's like we cant buggy on the beach at low tide because of the clam diggers. So we wait an hour or so and 99% are gone, except for the couple out at high tide digging for clams. Whether they have a brain or not means nothing more than we, or I will step out on a limb and say "I" need to take a bit of my buggy time to go chit chat with them and see how they are doing. After they have finished talking about themselves, they ask,"What the Hell are you doing with those buggy things"? After a simple explanation of the sport and some of the safety issues, they say"Oh, that sounds like fun, or Wouldn't catch me doing that". Non the less an invite for a tandem buggy ride and a couple of people now understand the sport and move on.
What the buggier did was not right, and what the "local" did was not right either. Must be why I have been talking lately more with people on the beach than bugging.

Thanks Angus for posting the letter, hope things change for the better. We all need to know the crap that has to be dealt with, Angus has done a lot of work to put on JIBE, more than anyone knows, not just a few weeks work but from the day after Jibe 2012 until the first day of Jibe 2013 he is working on the event.
MY HATS OFF TO YOU ANGUS FOR A JOB WELL DONE, AND FOR NOT LETTING IT SIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR.
Showing up and participating in the event is only part of telling Angus of your appreciation, helping the public know about the sport is also part of the event.
I am done and need to get off the soap box before I fall off.

Are you sure that sending a letter of appoligy is the best move Angus ? This guy doesn't sound like the type to take it and then leave things alone ? More likely to use it as fuel? He is not alone. Far too many times I have seen this exact behaviour.

Is it possible to post signs warning people an event is on ? Seems talking with council about how to deal with this unique personality issue we run into would be best. Others are SURE to do this again and again. That's a lot of groveling ? :puzzled:

GREAT SUBJECT ! As BK says this is not just an East coast issue.

need the fisherman apologize for attracting predators with swimmers in the water ?

his public slice got just a little too small that day and wants to to voice "public safety" covering his own insecurities. he stated it was crowded, with an event! dude its public, maybe he SHOULD have walked a bit more.

i'm a local and may beach is empty alot, but WHEN 3000 people show up ...i WALK A BIT more so they may have effortless passive safety.

the worst is the fishing ...guy catches shark, he hasn't a clue what to do with it, and scared of it....i see it and tell him put it back for it dies. he gives me the WHAT?? look and the "why so concerned about a dead shark". and i enhance his scope by letting him know how one dead fish will attract maybe 5-10 4-5ft sharks that are in the break JUST OVER THERE.. and by the way those your kids? amazed how his family where slowly slipping on the seafood menu he mans up and cut the line and tossed the fish back quickly...and the wife hearing all guarantees a nice rerun at the right moment ...

anyway, crashers on the local scene or just needy locals . thats what you're gonna find in public spots. mindful respect and kindness( and some education) helps us all enjoy WHY WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME SPOT.

Lol opinions aside, stay away from the kids and wave and smile at everyone... They all wave and smile back at me :D

Hard to hate when you're smiling



Purely joking here: but, you suppose thats the same peep that was aptly named "the plover patrol"?

Great advice, Drew, but there are always some folks that just seem to not tolerate others having fun. The guy that dug a trench across the beach at Wildwood comes to mind. This is one of the reasons I am hesitant to attend large events anymore. I had a guy sneak up and lie down behind me, right where I was showing a curious bystander how to fly, and when I nearly stumbled over him, not knowing he was there, he started yelling at me how it was a public beach and all. The bystander and I both exchanged looks, and I apologised profusely for almost breaking my neck avoiding tripping over him. We walked further up the beach, and the bystander says, boy the nerve of some people... :dunno: I'm kind of lucky that our Tug Hill event takes place on privately owned sites that are generally purpose designated, keeping the crazies out.(well, except US of course!)

Angus,

Thanks for letting us know. We need to know what our kiting peers are doing so we can address these things internally and quickly.

The kiter was out of line. Some of the beach goers out there saw us as the entertainment. We might have been able to achieve that with "local" if we gave her family enough room and less input, but that opportunity was clearly missed. All of us became a thorn in her side instead.

We all need to work to preserve the opportunities we get to have the rip-roaring good time we had at JIBE.

Philip

Tried to resist, but can't help myself.

"I visit this beach weekly all year" Wow. So 1 week out of 52 someone suggested that you re-locate, most likely for your own benefit and you cope an attitude? Even after you readily admit that you "did not feel safe at all" with your children on this beach this day?
Surely you noticed that this "weekly trip" to Jekyll was not a typical day at the island.
Surely you noticed that there was an event going on. You certainly noticed that the activities had a element of danger and were concerned for your children's safety. Did you (and others on the forum who suggest otherwise) stop to consider that the individual who suggested you move might also have been concerned for you and your kid's safety??
Surely, if you come to Jekyll EVERY week you are aware that there are other public access points to the beach that could have been used without putting your children at risk?

So apparently, YOUR entitlement to YOUR weekly visit under YOUR expectations and in YOUR spot, trumps everyone else's right to access and enjoy the area under their terms - even if it only occurs once a year.

Oh, and Jekyll Island was "crowded"???????

By the way, I would consider only 1 complaint over 4 days and ~thousands(?) of beachcombers a rousing success

So this person admits they sat with small children in a area obviously being used for Buggying- maybe I should bring my kids to the local Baseball park and sit on 1st base? Or the race track and sit on turn 2?

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Not write and complain since they made a poor decision. They knew what Buggying was and should have kept clear. Don't send a letter, it only admits guilt.

While working on a town planning commity the attorney for the town was explaining something stating , " people don't understand that they don't actualy own the land ,what they own is a bundle of rights." Last year the Jekyll Island Authority took away the "right" to fly kites over plover nesting area because they perceived that kite shadows would be upsetting to plovers. Now picture yourself in a meeting where the mother of toddlers sais to this same Authority "prove that these things won't hit someone and hurt them...PROVE IT!" Unless the economic benefits out weight the risk of a bloody toddler on the beach ,there is only one way they can vote.
Hats off to you Angus for dealing with these issues , designating a section of beach for JIBE in order to protect the general public may be the solution to protecting JIBE.

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Originally posted by snowspider ...Hats off to you Angus for dealing with these issues , designating a section of beach for JIBE in order to protect the general public may be the solution to protecting JIBE.

I like where you are going with this suggestion... However, people often forget to act intelligently. Just because a specific section of beach is designated for something does not mean people will stay where they are supposed to. Even if it was clearly marked, and even borders put in place, people are going to walk around/through them. It is our job to avoid them and keep their safety in mind.

I appreciate people like Angus with the patience and commitment to deal with these kinds of problems - I'm glad for you guys! And, by proxy, thanks for the effort Angus :bigok:

Otherwise I could rant for hours ...

True story Syracuse NY ,at the zoo a kid climbed a fence at night that had barbed wire on top and tangled up with a lepard , his parents tried to sue the city "there were no signs there indicating what the fence was for". A designated area would hopefully reduce the risks and liabilities involved and it also allows the Authority an option for allowing the activity (kiting) to continue. At JIBE last year I saw a big guy on a big buggy hauling a** pass 10 feet behind a mother at the waterline fussing with one kid while her other kid in diapers was playing behind her.
As the late great Pogo once said "we have met the enemy and he is us"

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Originally posted by ragden ... It is our job to avoid them and keep their safety in mind.

I feel like this is the best way for us to have the most freedom and the best PR.

If we pursue a "kite-only zone" it might mean we find ourselves boxed into that zone. That would not work for me. I need my space. Lots of space. I would much rather accept having to drop speed and adjust course where the people are so I can get to where the people aren't.

OTOH, a zone marked "Warning: High kite traffic next 1/4 mile." on each end might be useful to us. I expect some people will ignore it while others will gravitate to it. In either case, we must watch out for those people.

We could write a list of rules for engagement with the public and circulate it among the fliers. I have my own unwritten list of these rules. In discussing them with Dean I found we agreed on a lot of these details. I took me a while to figure some of them out, so I can see where it might be useful to the newer fliers to have them written out in black and white.

Philip

I may be wrong on this, and I wasn't at JIBE to see the actual circumstances, but what struck me about the video was the proximity of pedestrians to kiters, perhaps it was the WAY they were asked to move, I am always real sensitive to non-kiters and especially little kids and pets (because they are unpredictable) around me at my local beaches and take a moment to approach the responsible party (parent) and explain the activity and its potential dangers as well as suggesting good vantage points (upwind, if possible) to watch, always with a smile and a thank you. My concern is first for safety (theirs and mine) and of course access, which takes almost nothing to lose and alot to get back (if at all).

Being a special event, perhaps the ONE WEEK it takes place the authority could post some kind of notice in the immediate area of what is taking place, though it sounds like an isolated occurrence I agree that it makes the access especially sensitive if for any reason a second complaint should come along.

My point is that JIBE is almost unique in the fact that it is an event that shares with the public a popular venue unlike NABX, WBB, SOBB, etc. which some do but I never seem to see the amount of non kiting public in close proximity to the action at those other events. Not everyone commands the perfect kite control skills at all times and a beginner who is shakey in that department could cause an issue to upset the absolutely beautiful access you all enjoy there, maybe like at Pismo Beach in Ca. certain skill levels are restricted to certain areas away from the general public (I dont know, just a thought).

Is blackbeards a location? or was the spectator referring to the kite buggying participants as some sort of pirates :-) I pictured buggies going by with guys in long beards sneering at him :-)

All of this is strictly from a spectator with limited knowledge of the setup there, but with some experience of the issues at hand, I think that in some way that a proactive measure is needed before a interested third party does it.

And by the way I HATE Plovers, those little, F***king useless birds have locked up almost the entire California coastline, as well as Oregon and now I find Georgia is affected as well I'm sorry to hear that. (there I vented a bit)


Just my .02

Quote:

Originally posted by apextech Is blackbeards a location? or was the spectator referring to the kite buggying participants as some sort of pirates :-) I pictured buggies going by with guys in long beards sneering at him :-) Just my .02

It is a restaurant, now renamed "Fins on the Beach" but a lot of people refer to it as Blackbeards out of habit. I is located above the beach area known by many as "Kite beach" . Public access ramps in the area are spaced such that this area is usually not crowded. Even on holiday weekend there is a couple of football fields worth of space to buggy a bit. Plenty of room for water riders to launch, too.

Thanks everybody for the support. I never did hear back from the JIA with the complaintant's address so I guess it will slip into oblivion. The folks at JIA have always said that JIBE participants "are very polite and wonderful to meet". And they know that ya'll spend money locally.

Thanks again

Angus

When I lived on the east coast 40 years ago, there was an issue with surfers walking on the beach to get to the water.
Some woman screamed at me saying"your trespassing, this beach front belongs to me" and I curtiously replied FU
lady no one owns the beach or ocean.
Not much has changed as far as one groups rights trumps another.
I like the idea of #@%$#! signs that say beware of kites and lines and buggys!

I do have signs saying "Please mind the Kite lines" that I post on stakes near beach entrances, just to remind and suggest to people that something is going on. I also encourage JIBE participants to get in early and spread their crap everywhere around the staging area to sort of claim space.

It works and most people stay out of the way pretty much. Most are appreciative of the event, with such a brilliant aerial display of color, or at least curious.

Like Mel said, one complaint out of thousands of beachgoers over 5 years is a good success rate.

We have had one similar instance at WBB. A couple years ago, a guy decided that he did not want us running the buggies anywhere around him and he kept yelling at us for a bit. Then he did the ultimate and started digging a trench. Wonder which of us were creating more of a hazard! We just stayed away from that end for a while till he left!

I think a lot of people have already covered it and it's something we all see whether at kite festivals on a beach or weekends surfing and we try to keep to one area and some people will still set up right in the middle. Sometimes they are trying to make a point for no reason and many times people just don't know what it's all about and any dangers.
I usually go over to talk in a casual and friendly way and I do not mention any real serious dangers otherwise that could get it in their minds they we shouldn't be doing dangerous activities in the first place. I approach it in a way that I let them know we are doing an event and it's really busy and we are putting on a show and we don't want to interfere with their great day on the beach and I'll let people know to watch out for you because this is our main route of travel but we'll accommodate you etc etc and let me know if there is anything we can do and invariably people finally get the idea and they suggest - how about I move and at that point I volunteer or call friends over to lend a hand moving them and thank them. Works most of the time but there are the odd ones that we all know the type .....

This is truly bad news and I hope that nothing negative comes out of it. I love kiting and this concerns me on a few levels.

Primarily this puts the state authority that grants permission to traction kiting at Jekyll Island in a bad position. They have to investigate the complaint and decide if they want to allow the privilege to continue. Having them "sign off" that its OK brings with it liability and the chance of being sued in the case of a mishap. Unfortunately is far easier and safer for them to ban kiting, and a ban at Jekyll Island will set a president which may restrict access at other places.

Secondarily, if what the complaint's author states is accurate, then we have work to do on our conduct. We should never "tell" a member of the general public that they have to move. We should never travel at high rate of speed near bystanders, especially if they are young children. Children are highly unpredictable and will often run strait toward you or into your projected path! You have to slow down and change course to leave a lot of room. Often I will just tack and head back where I came from to avoid the situation altogether.

I attended JIBE last year and it is great event and Jekyll Island is a wonderful venue for kiting; it would be a shame to loose them. I feel that we should use this as a wake-up call and try harder to present ourselves responsively. It would be best if we police ourselves. Please practice safe kiting and if you see a fellow kiter doing something questionable, mention it to him/her. You can do it quietly if you like; they may not be aware of their behavior and will probably be more careful in the future.

Beachrights makes a good point. This guy knew what was happening and went to see it. I also agree with Danny on many things he said. If you see some one with or without kids it's best to avoid them.

I dare say if it ever became an issue a quick print of this thread will give anyone a very good impression of who we are, our values and our love of the sport INCLUDING our respect of all animals and all people.

Wasn't buggying one of the original peace love and happiness sports? Kites in general must have been?

There are two sides to every story.

I can't help but think the member who asked the people to move tried to do so in a polite manor. Might even have just suggested it was a good idea ? It is clear he was more conerned about the persons kids safety than they actually were . I don't think we should be getting all down on the member who spoke up. I would be very interested in hearing his version of events before I did.

This person obviously has issues. I have a feeling you could have approached her with birthday cake and she would have been offended !

I would certianly be interested in reading these guidlines for dealing with the public . Like , what should I have said the other weeked when some kid treated my arc as an an inflatable amusement park ride ?