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Author: Subject: heeling free power kite rig
ingovoegler


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[*] posted on 5-23-2012 at 10:01 PM
heeling free power kite rig


:wee:
look at this incredible kite rig on a sit-on-top kayak with 21 sqm speed 3

Ingo
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PHREERIDER


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Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!

[*] posted on 5-24-2012 at 11:12 AM


ALL the lines thru the ring ???is there a realease system? line wear issues?

can u really point the combination, seems fixed to either port or starboard no real tiller action, anything in between is kite dependent, right ? did not see a tack in there. pointed windward, fins flat , no real tiller for control except the kite...could pull everything back wards and over.

inovative for sure, would not want to be snatched into that fin thing!

how about a centered dagger board (that you can control the depth) and pedal operated sizeable rudder? you would have full control of vessel in the seated positon and everything is underwater and NOTHING is attached to the kite(except rider harness). perhaps a bit safer and the whopper chopper thing is off the front.

looks fun for sure, thanks for posting




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ingovoegler


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[*] posted on 5-27-2012 at 04:08 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
ALL the lines thru the ring ???is there a realease system? line wear issues?

can u really point the combination, seems fixed to either port or starboard no real tiller action, anything in between is kite dependent, right ? did not see a tack in there. pointed windward, fins flat , no real tiller for control except the kite...could pull everything back wards and over.

inovative for sure, would not want to be snatched into that fin thing!

how about a centered dagger board (that you can control the depth) and pedal operated sizeable rudder? you would have full control of vessel in the seated positon and everything is underwater and NOTHING is attached to the kite(except rider harness). perhaps a bit safer and the whopper chopper thing is off the front.

looks fun for sure, thanks for posting



-release system is there, seems to work perfectly, ring will be released when drawbar moves towards front(which it does by design when I go over board or trigger the kites safety system)
-line wear is there as well, but acceptable even with the SS-ring though aluminium would be better; after about 10hrs of riding it's clearly visible, where the lines touched the ring and soon I will have to do something about it(will remove just 50cm and splice them, which is very easy on dyneema lines)
-pointing quite good, much better than (at least me on) a kiteboard, I have GPS-Plot showing about 60deg off the wind, could do little better but getting slower(and bored) the higher I point
-tiller is not required which I see as a big advantage, steering only through the kite, boat always keeps a predetermined(by the V-drawbar's adjustable position)angle towards kite pull direction(kite depowered: close hauled, kite fully powered: ~beam reach, kite sinussing or figure eighting: broad reach, downwind run: keeping the foils out of the water=less friction and stalling the kite)

On the kayak I only managed to jibe, no tacking, on another boat and with a smaller kite I have been able to tack as well(even without tiller)
Jibing on a much smaller radius than sailboats though and without risk of being hit by the boom, so I don't miss the ability to tack and with a tiller I certainly could
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snowspider




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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 06:38 AM


Soak your lines in liquid parafin (not too hot) see if that extends their life.



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snowspider




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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 07:05 AM


So the front fins are at a fixed setting to resist the sidepull of the kite , and you set these to a comfortable upwind setting? I understand why no centerboard or tiller is needed , the front fin is center and at the end of a run the kite is used to whip the load arround. On smooth ice I turn my sled around in the same manner. Do you plan on a steerable front fin or would it be too complicated?



2.6 , 3.9 , 5.3 , 6.8 PL Vipers
5 , 7.5 HQ Apex II
14m HQ Montana VII
5m naish element
7m ss turbo diesel
10m pansh blaze

5m beamer dearly departed into a tree
3 "snowspider" homebuilt kite sleds
3 homebuilt buggies
1 skate board with seat on wheels or blades (the c0ckroach)
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mougl


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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 07:39 AM


Pretty cool looking rig!



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stetson05




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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 09:46 AM


I don't know if the newest flysurfer lines are this way but my speed 2 lines are in three different sections. If you use a 1 or 2 m section where the lines go through the rings you can easily replace them and not have a lot of cost involved.

The danger is definately there with the keel above the water like that but I see a safety feature there too. During a jibe is probably the most likely time to capsize but because the keel gets removed from the water the boat will pivot easily and freely. I see both sides of it.
The other problem is if the wind gusts too much with the kite at 12 o'clock the kite could pick up the whole front end of the kayak and dump you off. I got picked up completely out of the water (from chest deep) yesterday while depowered.
Cool idea.




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bigkid


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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 10:02 AM


interesting for sure. get rid of the ring and use a 3 or 4 wheel pulley set up.

need to swim to the thing to start? no hot launch off the beach?

you use the QR on the chicken loop, then what? everything stops at the ring?:puzzled:




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ingovoegler


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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 10:26 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bigkid
interesting for sure. get rid of the ring and use a 3 or 4 wheel pulley set up.

need to swim to the thing to start? no hot launch off the beach?

you use the QR on the chicken loop, then what? everything stops at the ring?:puzzled:


I tried pulleys on my first prototype( http://youtu.be/yVwZRZYkzzE and even a winch to easier start the kite), but unnecessarily complicates the matter, I think.
Hot launch of the beach could easily be done in sideshore/offshorewinds and less surf, to risky usually where I live, capsize and the rig might be broken.
When I trigger the QR or go over board the bar(& me) will get pulled towards the ring, this will pivot the V-drawbar towards front, which will trigger release of the ring. Haven't tried it out often enough to guarantee that it would function always, but since my last adjustments it hasn't failed
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ingovoegler


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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 10:48 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by stetson05
I don't know if the newest flysurfer lines are this way but my speed 2 lines are in three different sections. If you use a 1 or 2 m section where the lines go through the rings you can easily replace them and not have a lot of cost involved.

The danger is definately there with the keel above the water like that but I see a safety feature there too. During a jibe is probably the most likely time to capsize but because the keel gets removed from the water the boat will pivot easily and freely. I see both sides of it.
The other problem is if the wind gusts too much with the kite at 12 o'clock the kite could pick up the whole front end of the kayak and dump you off. I got picked up completely out of the water (from chest deep) yesterday while depowered.
Cool idea.


Dyneema lines can very easily be spliced, it's being explained somewhere on flysurfers website. They are obviously getting thicker though, but this doesn't affect the safety system at least in the infinity bar, so far I'd estimate to have to splice after appr. 15-20hrs of use.
In a gust strong enough to lift the front of or even the whole boat out of the water, I should get pulled towards the ring which should immediately get released, haven't tried it out yet, though and am not very keen to do so, to be honest.
During the few times that I have capsized the (latest) release system has worked flawlessly, pulling me towards the ring and releasing the same
I don't see danger by the above water foil, as kite pull is always sideways or upwards(during jibe), never towards bow except on a downwind run when the foils are horizontally above waterline anyway.

Ingo
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ingovoegler


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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 11:06 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by snowspider
So the front fins are at a fixed setting to resist the sidepull of the kite , and you set these to a comfortable upwind setting? I understand why no centerboard or tiller is needed , the front fin is center and at the end of a run the kite is used to whip the load arround. On smooth ice I turn my sled around in the same manner. Do you plan on a steerable front fin or would it be too complicated?


The front fin/foil in the prototype is adjustable(from the #@%$#!pit during operation), as I wanted to be able to try different angles of attack. However, I am not sure if this is a big enough advantage to justify the additional constructional effort. I can probably get a few extra% of performance out of the boat by adjusting the foil to different payloads, wind strengths or sea conditions, but it's working very well without this feature.
The second way to change the AoA of foil & boat is by changing the position/angle of the v-drawbar, which I do through a 8:1 pulley system. Different angles would be appropriate for different points of sail , I guess, haven't experimented enough to be an expert about this either though(too painfully often lacking wind here)
I would, by the way, love to try this ice sled thing myself, should get incredibly fast, unfortunately unlikely to ever get the chance in the climate I live at present.
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ingovoegler


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[*] posted on 5-29-2012 at 11:09 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by snowspider
Soak your lines in liquid parafin (not too hot) see if that extends their life.


While the lifespan is already absolutely acceptable, this is definitely worth a try, thanks for the advice.
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