If I do that with my navi' I have to constantly look at a "wrong way sign" !
Being short armed I rarely trim on the fly. As he mentioned. Set it right and leave it alone.
I tend to start out on the small size kitewise and so launch depowered and then Trim out as I stop for my 1st turn. If I got it right, I leave it. If
not a second adjustment at the second turn usually does the job.
It is different on water and you must trim on the fly ?
Originally posted by shaggs2riches
yeah I noticed that too. Must be an error in where he was holding the bar wrong.
Looks like he has them all set that way and it is his style ? Some thing Red is right not Port? Being on the water I would have expected him to teach
red is left ?
I ride with a guy that likes Red on right, and it's caused me launch and flight issues sometimes on both fixed bridle and depower if I use a kite he
rigged. Multiple companies have the red handle with a "L" marking for left as well as depower bars that say "wrong way with red on the right.
His video helps me confirm I'm using the trim strap the right way. I'd like to try below the bar trim sometime to see if it's all positive. I've
heard some complain that its hard to gain leverage to change the trim down low like that.
that's a great video.
(edit: yes it's a video about the trimmer, but...) nice tip on the shoulder's back...making a more concerted water effort this year, and found myself
in the poo stance a bit too much the other day. Could have been generally overpowered, but I know I need to refine that stance for sure.
on my LEI I sometimes set red to right, just makes sense to me. I wonder how this red on left nonesense started.
You gotta adapt your stance to the conditions ... note in pictures of the speed record chasing guys, they're in a heavy squat stance, holding down so
much power. If you're over-powered, there's no problem getting your weight low and back - especially in big chop.
... it's all very well for under-powered wake-style light-weight's to bang on about perfect stance when they're riding on perfectly flat water
ya, definitely need more practice...not sure my board helps either, it is a freestyle board that I got for cheap so picked it up...heard they are not
so great for the chop, so maybe not making my life any easier.
Hey Beamer Bob,
That's what I always found to be true for me. When the adjustment is below the bar, it's a bit harder to get the leverage on it. But I'm not short
though, so maybe thats why the above ones don't bug me. The extensions they sometimes put on the above trim DOES bug me though. The extensions seem to
get wrapped up around the trim stap in weird ways.
Just my observations..
clam cleat below the bar is harder to adjust..............perfer the above bar cleat ..............nice tutotral on shoulder / hip positions and edge
control
17m Ozone Zephyr (2012)
15m Flysurfer Silver Arrow 2
12m Ozone Catalyst (2013)
10m Ozone Catalyst (2012)
4m (Mac Para Bego 400 & Flexifoil Blade IV for sale)
142 Wainman Joke/135 Dimitri Pro Skywalker
11'6 Naish Nalu
6' Davo Fish
I am not a Phoenix however,
I am Don Leech
I'm with you Kami . Give me full power so I have to squat it out and lean back all of the way to hold it down. Ill switch to a smaller kite size when
I can no longer hold ground
Sounds like you may as well just fly fixed bridals.
I've always believed kite placement and counter weighting are your first forms of power managment and the trim/sheeting secondary.
But the whole point for me to have trim is so I don't have to swap kites and I get a broader power range out of one wing. Also so I can go out in
conditions where I am mostly overpowered and be able to trip out to fight my way back up wind, to my anchor etc. If I'm 10 miles out I may not have
access to a wing swap.
I'm with Bob on the "red right" expirience. I had a friend ask me to test his 12m Syn and for whatever reason he likes to run red on right. The bar
and lines had been spun when he handed it over so I didn't realize they were reversed until I launched it and immediately whipped it in. Thought for
sure I killed it.
red on right? Some people say you should use the kite's left for red instead of your left.
S
Kite companies seem to be moving in opposite directions: Peter Lynn is making 24m kites, while Sky Country is making 8m speed wings.
Ozone Samurai 3m
Sky Country Reflex 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10m new 6m!
Sky Country Alasca 10m - sold
Rhombus Firebee 3m
Libre Vampir Race Pro 2.6m
Jojo Rage 8m
Originally posted by Flyfish
That's what I always found to be true for me. When the adjustment is below the bar, it's a bit harder to get the leverage on it.
And I find the exact opposite for me. I ride with most of my bars below the bar and find it extremely easy to reach down and pull in - above the bar I
find some set-up twist all over the place and i need to untangle them or they are a long reach and getting them unlcleated in some cases is even a
long reach for me and I have long arms. On newer lines when cleats bite a little more on the line i also find above the bar annoying in light wind
when i go to uncleat and it's a little stuck and I end up just pulling the whole front line assembly forward instead of it uncleating - with it at the
chicken loop it doesn't draw forward in the same way. Definitely a personal preference thing - at no time have I ever had a leverage problem adjusting
and almost all the guys in this area that had built their own arc bars all prefer below the bar - there are some other trim straps on LEIs that work
absolutely perfect above and below. For me it's the reach and the twisting up on some above the bar that I dislike - more chance of needing to depower
quickly and I cant grab it because it's twisted or turned or out of reach when I know the other is right there.
Mark Groshens
WindSpeed kites & design - Canada
Peter Lynn: Charger2 18, Scorp 16, Charger2 15, Phantom II 12, Scorp 10, Phantom II 9, Phantom 9, Charger2 8, Syn 8, Charger 6, F 1200, 840
Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17.5, Rise 13, 10, 7 Razor 6
Foils: Full set of PL Lynx, Airea Raptors, PL Reactor IIs, PL Cores, Libre Spirits, Ozone Flow
buggies: PL XR+, Cameleon Pagona, custom bigfoot, PL Bigfoot, custom ice buggy
Boards: 2 custom directionals, O.R Surf series 5-11, Mako Skinny, Mako 140 Wide, Mako 150 Wide, Mako King, Brunotti
lots of old school skis, snowboard
I might be mistaken but I think the video applies to LEI bow, C-kites, arcs, and others that do not have pulleys up near the kite leading into the
bridals. Depowering my Apex's does not let the bar sag down for easier reach it just limits the amount of "angle of attack" that I can get when I pull
the bar down.
If the bar is lowering when pulling the adjuster strap/rope then the depower adjustment that Jeff A. describes realisticly adjusts "how much bar
throw is left to hog this thing in for more lift or pull"
If someone wanted to setup their bars for comfort/easy reach (on nonpullied kites) they could eliminate depower staps/ropes but they may be giving up
the full range of angle of attack that a kite is capable of.
2.6 , 3.9 , 5.3 , 6.8 PL Vipers
10 , 13 , PL Scorpions
5 , 7.5 HQ Apex II
14m HQ Montana VII
5m naish element
7m ss turbo diesel
10m pansh blaze
5m beamer dearly departed into a tree
3 "snowspider" homebuilt kite sleds
3 homebuilt buggies
1 skate board with seat on wheels or blades (the c0ckroach)
I think it changes the AoA like you said. That in turn means that you have to pull the bar in further before you hit the ideal powerband.
ie: higher winds pull in some trim and you have more depower in the throw, meaning you bring the bar closer to you to achieve the ideal park n ride.
If you let the trim out you don't need to pull the bar in as much before the kite is powered up.
what I fly/ride:
19m Flysurfer Speed 2 SA
12m Flysurfer Speed2
6m Ozone access xt
1.5m Ozone imp trainer
144cm Airush Switch
152cm lib tech skate banana
MBS Pro 90
Jereme Leafe Pro 95
Folks probably run red on right because they started flying kites, not sailing boats. Kites didn't start on the water, and the convention of Red on
Right (notice the Rs) was adapted way back when. Flier didn't want to switch over the convention used by sailors.
A lot of the dual line guys I fly with do the Red on right thing, I always need to think when I pick up one of their kites.
One of the "most confusing" is a gentleman who claims to have learned it while sailing ["when sailing into the harbor keep the Red on the Right [the
Port marker when leaving harbor]] and he served in the US Coast Guard .
As for me I always do Red on the right/ Port side, it helps to remember that Port is a color of Red [but then I retire from the Navy this year ]
2.5m, 4.8m, 6.5m NPW5; 1, 3, 6, 9, & 12m KM4 NPW9
2.4 m Flexifoil Sting; 2.8 m Prism Stylus P3
3m, 5m PL Hornet; 6.8m PL Viper; 8.6 m Reactor II
Rev PowerBlast 4-8
PL XR+; VTT Stinger on Midis
a couple of Revs, a bag of dual lines and a bag of single lines
I didn't find much useful info in the video and in fact he basically reinforced using bad posture and not sheeting thru the hips. From what I can
tell the message was "you should trim your kite once each session"; not a bad message in itself but lost in the other 5minutes of cruft.
Different kites depower differently. there's a great video from flysurfer on the tech of the depower. I'm sure there's a link around here
somewhere
US503 - Manzanita, Oregon
Fixed Bridal: Flexifoil Sting 1.2, 1.7; Rage Acid 2.5m, 3.5m, 4.7m, 6m | Peter Lynn Vapor 11.2m, 16.1m | NPW 7m
Depower : Peter Lynn Venom 2 13m | Peter Lynn Phantom 15m | Flysurfer 2.5 SA 19m
LEI : Flexifoil Atom 7m, 9m, 12m
Land rides : Libre Hardcore; Libre v-max; Peter Lynn XR+W | Rollerblade Coyotes! | Ground Industries AK Pro
Water rides : Slingshot Misfit 134; Ocean Rodeo Mako 150; North WAM! 5\'10
But red on right is when going upstream. If the kite is pulling you downwind (or trying to) you should have red on left. All kinds of questions and
ideas about origin but several companies have locked in red left with their control gear. I'm going with that. If you set up your equipment red on
right, you should make it a point to inform someone flying your gear that you are set up on red/right.
On fixed BRIDLE (does anyone spell it correctly anymore?) once you have the handles in your hand correctly, you won't get messed up much. But if I do
a downturn or upwind turn with a depower and have a twist in the lines, I always just give the bar a spin and make sure I grab red on the left. It
would mess with me every time and I'd be 50/50 or diving the kite into the ground. Multiple twists would really be critical to have it correct.
As for me I always do Red on the right/ Port side, it helps to remember that Port is a color of Red [but then I retire from the Navy this year ]
AFIK port is the left side, starboard is right, but then I was never in the navy.
S
Kite companies seem to be moving in opposite directions: Peter Lynn is making 24m kites, while Sky Country is making 8m speed wings.
Ozone Samurai 3m
Sky Country Reflex 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10m new 6m!
Sky Country Alasca 10m - sold
Rhombus Firebee 3m
Libre Vampir Race Pro 2.6m
Jojo Rage 8m
I started out flying my fixed bridles and stunt kites with red on the right ... thanks, Nick Cave ... but swapped to nautical correctness when I got
on the water. No biggee now.
Below the bar trim - I like the idea that it's super-clean up there and, in theory, a clean QR system; but ... if you DO trim out a lot, you get a big
tangly mess dangling around your knees.
The one time I had a kite with below the bar trim (Airush Flow in 2009 ... or was it 2010?) I couldn't get the leverage to depower when I wanted. I'd
like to try it again though ...
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