Got my first real skiing session in on a PL ARC, a 19m Venom from Mel.

Man, it was sweet. I am a Frenzy/Access guy to date and I have to say, the Venom was a blast. The 19 was a perfect low wind engine, so gentle and easy to handle. Upwind performance was excellent. Seemed to really munch the gusts in a way I had never experienced.

I shared the kite with another Ozone fanatic. He loved the Venom. Also taught a newbie how to fly. First put him static with a 3m Bullet and then a 5m and then a 9m Frenzy. He was underpowered but got some decent downwind runs. Put him on the Venom and away he went, learning how to keep up wind. He wants to buy the kite!

So, for you ARC fanatics, I am looking at a 18m Phantom. I know it is higher aspect ratio. But how will it compare? I am a 185 pound intermediate flyer. Flying on skis and Coyotes in the gusty, low wind state of WI. Want to try the water this summer. Not jumping yet. May do a little in time.

Thanks in advance.

I know I love my 15m phantom..gotta let you know how the synergy compares when I get it in

:wee:

synergie 10 is fan-tas-tic !! my high-wind kite - 18 - max 30 knots - sweeet !
never flew a phantom - but heard only good things..

I've never flown one, but I can tell you off the bat that they are probably very stable, probably a bit of a pain to launch, and probably will take you to the moon. Due to the high AR it will have a lot of depower; at 185 lbs. you'd probably top out at 25 mph or so. It will turn faster than your Venom. Although you can park and ride a Phanny, they do like to be maneuvered too. I would honestly love to own a Phantom... I think you'd thoroughly enjoy it.

did you score the 18m? the 18 will be a fine low wind bug mottor for you...............nice controlled turns, park n ride in 6 to 8 mph..................I would invest in an aluminium set of spars from CWS...................

Quote:

Originally posted by Seanny at 185 lbs. you'd probably top out at 25 mph or so. It will turn faster than your Venom.

i dont want to sound rude here, but this info is just not correct... even on water you will want a different kite right at 20mph, 25 is way top end for an 18 phantom... ive been spanked by my 15m phantom in 25 mph winds and i weigh 200

also, the 18m phantom will not turn anywhere near as fast as your venom... thats the reason i dont own a big phantom anymore... my 15m couldnt even do a loop it turned so slow, so an 18 will turn slower than that...

my 19m venom busts a loop easy-peasy

... please dont give advice on kites that you dont have personal experience with... people spend lots of money on these things... bad advice can also get you hurt in the kite game...

18m phantom in 25 mph winds... real bad idea, friend

Hmmm. I did not mean to give bad advice; my Venom 13 is REALLY slow. I can't loop it either, unless I want to kill myself. And my thinking for the 25 mph wind was, the Dutch landboarders at NABX were flying 19m Chargers in that kind of wind while riding... I figured the Phantom would have a higher top end?

Told ya I've never flown one before.

the dutch guys are crazy, remember... with hooj ones... also, if your venom isnt turning fast, something may be amiss in your setup... those little buggers turn really quick if they are tuned right and flying in the right winds... maybe tighten the straps or something??? power up the kite???? hard to say from here

the average rider will not be wanting to be attached to an 18m kite in 25 mph winds... all i wanted to convey was that that bit of advice might get someone hurt and it may be best to offer up your own experience... which does not include flying an 18m phantom in 25 mph winds...

again, not trying to be rude, but i just wanted to speak up because if someone acts on that advice and gets hurt and/ or feels like they were misled on a kite purchase, i would feel partially responsible if i didnt say something...

thats what i feel a community like this is about...

It's no problem. I didn't mean for the message to say go fly an 18m Phantom in 25 mph winds. More along the lines of, 25 mph is the LIMIT. But what do I know.

The Venom turns quite fast in a good breeze, but it pulls too much for me to loop it quickly. The front straps have been tightened and tied, and I ride fully powered with the bar sheeted in 3/4ths most of the time. But that's off topic.

Comparatively speaking of course, lighter winds taken into account - I found that there was little difference at my end of the kite lines between my 15 and 18. I still remember the first flight of the 18 and was stunned how similar to the 15 it was. Slower turning yes, but only marginally and expectedly so given the wind difference.

Thanks for the thread Todd.....my recent uncertainty in the Arcs has always had an asterisk in my mind that I need to remember that I fly in gusty inland crap and maybe all my time under an Arc has made me forget how amazingly well they munch up the gusts for me. Thinking about it now there were quite a few "ridden out gusts" that fateful day with the Frenzy.......

Interested to see how you Arcumcision progresses knowing where you're coming from here. Keep us in the loop.

15phantom on coyotes is fun for sure , super stable . mountain of power for sure. pics in gallery
(actually kite is for sale with venom 10) http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=17294

my phantom 15 in 25mph on the water/land is a monster. at 200# and a mountain range of experience on venomI/II/phantom/syn/charger ...they all loop, any size. and the venom will keep up with all of them. the dutch where on 19ch and i was on stock venom 13 and out weigh them by 75#, same airs, same speed and by far more back loops. light air, heavy air whatever. "kite is SLOW", "a pain to launch"...ok young jedi , check your light sabre at the door or someone, including yourself could get hurt AND be misinformed about a great series of kites. perhaps your V13 needs some phree time?

they all have unique advantages and turn speed has increased through the newer series. skill and kite tuning knowledge, practically makes them all very much alike .

Aspect ratio, projected area and drag/efficiency tell the story and relate the limits of any unit. pilot skill is what can nearly equalize performance output.

Thanson, working a seat harness with a big arc (15-19+) will help balance high window power without fatigue. if you have advanced transition skills a smaller unit P12-15 will make for more action friendly flow.

I didn't say they were slow, but wouldn't a Phantom of about the same size as a 19m Venom be a little tougher to launch if you've never done it before? It's much longer and thinner, and would probably be difficult to fill all the way in light wind... I'm still learning, too. Not intending to get anyone killed.

A good seat harness would be the most comfortable, especially in a buggy. I have a waist harness and I really like it, but it will ride up, so I can't keep the kite at the zenith very long. When it rides up it constricts breathing, making you twice as tired as a seat harness would... So I try to stay on the board as much as possible.

This forum is awesome....

you guys are really an oddity in the internet world. MOST other sites, these comments would have turned into a pissing contest, but here it seems they are taken with a respect and consideration for others.

you are right seanny john and jeroen were on 19s in 25mph, they said they do that at home when they can.......we were boosting hooj! It is possible to take a big kite in big winds, but if you are not a jumper, then stay away! A kite that big in those winds is not meant for a buggier though, its a lot easier for a boarder to ride on the edge, but that is because we can lean back or sit down, and even spin our legs quick to change directions.

Marijn took some photos of us boosting big out there, i can't wait to see our photos and video! i'm selling my 15m charger in may so I can upgrade to a 19m. 15 feet is okay, but why only go that high when john was going close to 30!

dayum.......so how bout those Braves?:duh::duh:

No bad blood my brothers! i'm just saying that i've rode severly overpowered on a big kite before. then again im not a buggier and we can ride a little over powered since we can bend our knees to absorb the gusts. i love you all, except dino...he owes me tacos! jk jk