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Author: Subject: PL Charger 15m in the daily grind(review Pt. 2)
PHREERIDER


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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 12:52 PM
PL Charger 15m in the daily grind(review Pt. 2)


I jumped on a quick session today with the itch to feel out the CH 15 since yesterday's go on the CH12.

@200 lbs. on a 140x42 SK Sprint

conditions where as follows

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.as...

Got on about @4pm and off @ 5pm.

I set up the CH 15 to "half way" on all the kite straps , furtherest from the kite on the front knots and same on the rear bridle settings. fill /launch/ gone.

handling was fast, nice full window of power. power was super solid. Bar pressure was less than my v13 and the "feel" in the bar as feedback for kite position is there but less.

power, jumps and float out in these conditions almost identical to my v13 a bit better with faster turning.

very nimble indeed, feels like the go to kite at this point.

the added chord length is giving these kites tremendous turning speed but might be robbing a fraction from the upwind ability. very sensitive and quick in general.

Spring to summer will give a full range conditions on flat and surf conditions as well as gusty v. steady.

I will be tweaking both 12 and 15 top to bottom and get to loops, unhooked and ATB.

when time and conditions arrive back to back ride/fly to give even tighter comparisons.

with warmer weather coming I should some video at some point.




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PHREERIDER


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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 05:04 PM


just did another quick session to wrap up the tail end of the west moving thru .

12-15mph, super flat, same board

this was the light air run i wanted to check the bottom end and upwind.

Ch 15 as set before 1/2 in all the way around . main trim all the way out .

overtook a huge wind surfer set up on a steep upwind point of sail , so up wind is all good to go!

down loop truns smooth and fast, kiteloops quick and tight.

able load and pop huge airs, even better than my V13! one of the regular crew guys said it look really fast and aslo added it looked smaller, very surprised it was a 15m

total confidence in this one all i need is the top end




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power


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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 05:45 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
the added chord length is giving these kites tremendous turning speed but might be robbing a fraction from the upwind ability. very sensitive and quick in general.

Didn't PL shorten the lines? And aren't longer lines supposed to slow the kite down but keep it in the window for more time?




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mgatc




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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 05:54 PM


Two of my questions just got answered with the follow up. Namely low wind performance and upwind capability. Sounds like both are up to your expectations?
If you have a 10m and 15m do you see any need for a 12m?




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mgatc




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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 06:41 PM


Found a wind range chart for the Chargers at this link. Scroll to the bottom of the page.

Low end is insanely low! Skeptical that these kites get anywhere close to flying at 5 kts on land or 7kts on the water.

http://peterlynn.ee/?page_id=47




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Kamikuza


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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 07:05 PM


The Arc Calculator has been updated too ...
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/wind_range.htm

How do they compare to the Synergys, Phree?




Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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tridude




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[*] posted on 3-15-2010 at 08:11 PM


finally...................................



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tridude




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[*] posted on 3-16-2010 at 04:14 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by power
Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
the added chord length is giving these kites tremendous turning speed but might be robbing a fraction from the upwind ability. very sensitive and quick in general.

Didn't PL shorten the lines? And aren't longer lines supposed to slow the kite down but keep it in the window for more time?


added chord length or mean chord is the width of the sail (leading edge to trailing edge) not line lengths....................




17m Ozone Zephyr (2012)
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12m Ozone Catalyst (2013)
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power


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[*] posted on 3-16-2010 at 04:21 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by tridude
Quote:
Originally posted by power
Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
the added chord length is giving these kites tremendous turning speed but might be robbing a fraction from the upwind ability. very sensitive and quick in general.

Didn't PL shorten the lines? And aren't longer lines supposed to slow the kite down but keep it in the window for more time?


added chord length or mean chord is the width of the sail (leading edge to trailing edge) not line lengths....................

Oops, I wasn't sure if cord was a fancy word for lines:rolleyes:




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PHREERIDER


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[*] posted on 3-16-2010 at 05:12 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikuza
The Arc Calculator has been updated too ...
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/wind_range.htm

How do they compare to the Synergys, Phree?


i briefly flew, SYN 12M , the VPC makes up the lighter bar pressure and that felt about the same, and the syn12 very quick turning as well. the navigator bar is very different. Y-connector, swivel, loop &DD and adjustable width element. the sail itself has some dimensional changes(CH) that adds to the turning speed increase. power is gonna be in the same range with a fraction more with the charger.




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[*] posted on 3-16-2010 at 06:29 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by mgatc
Two of my questions just got answered with the follow up. Namely low wind performance and upwind capability. Sounds like both are up to your expectations?
If you have a 10m and 15m do you see any need for a 12m?



at my weight , the 15 is gonna be the all-around, if i can get more from 12 it would be nice. i really want the 12 to be the go to kite. a high wind session like 30mph for the 15 will help give me a good feel for the top range for the "200" club. i feel at this point the 15 will replace my v13. the 12 has to get me through the break in 15-20 mph then park and ride. i know i can get more from the 12 its just a matter of time.




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PHREERIDER


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[*] posted on 3-16-2010 at 09:12 AM


http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/wind_range.htm

not really even close to reality for the chargers, For scorp/VII and previous very good reference though.

http://peterlynn.ee/?page_id=47

same here not reality. rider weight is a factor, may be the stats for 140lbs. rider?

it seems that projected area might be in the answers folks.

its simple as this :

for every 10 kilos of rider you need about 1 meter of PROJECTED AREA

its a rough estimate and someone "learning" might need 1.3 meters for every 10 kilos of rider

a seasoned rider could get by with .8 meter for every 10 kilos of rider

Projected area is the only thing that remains consistent in the gear i've used. better than the #on the kite. yes speed and agility have some affect but overall confident power output yields ease of use for the average user.




TEAM RIDER for Coastal Wind Sports

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/

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acampbell


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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 10:27 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER

it seems that projected area might be in the answers folks.

its simple as this :

for every 10 kilos of rider you need about 1 meter of PROJECTED AREA

its a rough estimate and someone "learning" might need 1.3 meters for every 10 kilos of rider

a seasoned rider could get by with .8 meter for every 10 kilos of rider

Projected area is the only thing that remains consistent in the gear i've used. better than the #on the kite. yes speed and agility have some affect but overall confident power output yields ease of use for the average user.


Chad's theorem of ARC Relativity?

Assuming projected area of 65% of flat area for an ARC this would suggest a 14m ARC for a 200 lb rider such as yourself. Since you go between the 12m and 15 and seem to gravitate to the 15, that would square off, it seems.

Interesting.




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BeamerBob


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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 11:02 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER

it seems that projected area might be in the answers folks.

its simple as this :

for every 10 kilos of rider you need about 1 meter of PROJECTED AREA

its a rough estimate and someone "learning" might need 1.3 meters for every 10 kilos of rider

a seasoned rider could get by with .8 meter for every 10 kilos of rider

Projected area is the only thing that remains consistent in the gear i've used. better than the #on the kite. yes speed and agility have some affect but overall confident power output yields ease of use for the average user.


Chad's theorem of ARC Relativity?

Assuming projected area of 65% of flat area for an ARC this would suggest a 14m ARC for a 200 lb rider such as yourself. Since you go between the 12m and 15 and seem to gravitate to the 15, that would square off, it seems.

Interesting.


Those numbers work for me as well. 1.3 puts me out on my 19V and the 1m factor puts me on my 15. The tiscali chart says I can ride my 15 on water (considering my weight) at 10 mph. No way except maybe if I'm riding a Jon boat.:shocked2:




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PHREERIDER


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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 11:13 AM


geek brain torque bringing the digits



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