Awindofchange,

That is an informative post. It seems that you know what you are talking about.

As a Mechanical Engineer by education, Quality Engineer by trade (who worked for a NASA contractor on their next spacesuit), and former manual and CNC machinist, I do take exception to the following statement:

"All threading for the buggy is done on a fully automatic C&C 7 axis machining lathe to .0000001 tolerance and to exact specification for industry standard bolts."

I assume that because you are in Nevada, you are referring to 0.0000001 inch tolerance. When I was in the CNC field, 0.001 inch tolerance was good. for comparison, a standard piece of paper is about 0.004 inches thick. A good lathe with very precise tools could get to 0.00025 inch tolerance, but that would be way more than is needed for industry standard bolts. Even if you were speaking in metric, 0.0000001 meters is 0.0001 mm, which is still crazy.

For instance, for a 7/8" bolt, the tolerance on the diameter is about 0.010".

I guess I'm a bit nerdy if I read a kite forum post and notice a problem with a dimensional tolerance.

-Jason

The precision I was referring to is the precision capability of the CnC lathe, not the thread tolerance. After looking up the actual specs, it is .00059 - I guess I was off a little. The thread tolerance is .01, any closer and you could run into problems with the bolt seizing under temperature differences.

My response is not to at all discredit anything Kent said. Nothing he said was a personal attack on anyone and had a basis of fact. This precision issue is just a technicality that needed to be clarified.

Most machinists will be bragging when they say they can get something to as they call it, "half a thousandth". This would be .0005. The 4th digit can be either a 5 or 0. You pay extra if you want things this tight because they are going to have more throwaways that don't meet the spec. I imagine even aerospace doesn't require something made with a precision of 6 zeros, and if they did, I'm not sure how it could be measured. I've never worked with anything that could do that.

For perspective, I'd be thrilled with my bolts being within .001. Kent uses axle bolts with a fine thread that would be much less likely to back out than course threads. The fine threads would also allow you to get the connection more securely tightened. To my knowledge, he is the only buggy mfr in the industry using the 20mm fine threaded fasteners.

As long as this thread keeps going I want to put 20 bucks on Dieter.

Interesting how some of the facts on both sides are a bit off. Guess you have to see things from another point of view, Yep, sloppy cutting of the fabric, kinked instead of bends, inconsistent fabrication of products, seams that pop open, rust in the worst areas, lousy customer service, know it all attitude, I know I could go on and on. I have heard others ask the same questions, with the same concerns. Sounds like the kite world is no different than the were the rest of us live. :bigok:

While Dieter is more entertaining, my money is on Kent. "Just the facts m'am."

The bottom line is that everyone will make their own decision. I am a cheap guy. That's why I bought a Pansh Ace 6m a few years back. I like it and still fly it, but it is not as nice as my Flexifoil Blade 4m in quality or comfort or carrying bag. You definitely get what you pay for.

Think about this. I hear a lot of guys saying that they don't use the lines or handles from their Pansh kite. If you buy the kite and change the lines and handles and then put it in a better bag, you are essentially just buying the canopy. You may be able to get a nice Kite Only foil that you like more for about the same price. Or just don't order the handles and lines from Pansh if you aren't going to use them. I use my Pansh lines and handles and have had no issues other than the low level of comfort in the handles.

Keep in mind that if you try a Pansh and don't like it, it may be due to the fact that you don't like that particular style of foil. It may have nothing to do with the Pansh brand. You may also try a Flexifoil Bullet and not like that one. There are many variables in kite design and manufacturing. You have to find what you want.

If you can't understand what my advice is on Pansh, it is because I don't have any. Buy what you want, but you may be upgrading later.

-Jason

Exactly!

I am not disputing that Pansh has 7 team riders on here. I just wonder who they are and why they aren't contributing.

I have LOTS of questions about my Aurora but messages to Pansh info are never returned ?

Can one of the Pansh team riders step up and help me with this kite ? Maybe you can hook me up with the guy who designed + tested it ? :smug:

When is Pansh coming out with a bar to sell the Aurora RTF as advertised ?

Because when you mention the P word you are attacked, not all of them can handle the abuse. They were more sponsored to help get new people into the sport, think of them as demo pilots. And yes, I picked all skills, from beginners to old hands.

I cant help with the bar or the aurora as I fly FB kites but send me your questions and I will see what I can get from them

oh and welcome Dodd Gross, he now a team rider

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza Because when you mention the P word you are attacked, not all of them can handle the abuse. They were more sponsored to help get new people into the sport, think of them as demo pilots. And yes, I picked all skills, from beginners to old hands. I cant help with the bar or the aurora as I fly FB kites but send me your questions and I will see what I can get from them oh and welcome Dodd Gross, he now a team rider

Thanks Deiter,

Message on the way.

I hope I was clear that while I think Pansh goes about things in a strange way that I feel they are working to improve their product. The new materials and bridle lines have proven themselves to me. I put my Aurora 30ft up a tree. Myself on one line and an even bigger guy on the 1 other pulling for all we were worth . The tree LOST ! I couldn't believe with all the tugging, not a single broken bridle line or tear !

I have a 2m Pansh Flux and what a fantastic little kite! Honestly cant fault it,after looking at MANY reviews/forums it seems the Flux is one of Pansh's top models,if not their best.

Quote:

Originally posted by cheezycheese Good one macboy !!

No it wasn't.