crazyherb
Posts: 462
Registered: 7-13-2005
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Member Is Offline
Mood: Where's the water?
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Forward and Reverse Rotations...
Ok guys...I'm having a hard time getting forward/reverse rotations down....I can jump, and land under control...but the body just isn't letting me
rotate...
I've had a couple suggestions:
1. Body armor up, and go play in the deep sand and just start hucking around.
2. Wetsuit up, and go play in the water and fling myself around out there...It hurts less when you mess up.
3. Find a tree and rope up to it...and fling yourself around (avoid the trunk and wife's car).
Other tips:
- Go off single handed, center of bar...to keep the kite steady
- Load and pop - edge hard right as your bringing it back up
- Reverse is easier than forward
I've watched a bunch of youtube vids...but maybe I'm over-thinking it.
This video seems to make it look so easy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oObz49pxBTw
Any tips would help....need some stylie points...
Thanks.
NAPKA US70
Switch Element 2 15M, Element 3 11M, Helium 18M
Liquid Force Proof 161, MTH Custom (Water)
Flexboardz Haize (Land)
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erratic winds
Posts: 2081
Registered: 1-3-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: ATGATT! Armor up!
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tip 1 is how I'm doing it, except it's 'soccer field' instead of 'deep sand'. Wish I had a tree handy for tip 3.
I decided to just go for it one day until I felt it clicked. so I was doing short rides with transition jumps. I would just send the kite and pop,
frontside spin, eventually I got comfortable with doing frontside rotations in both directions. I then did the same thing working on backside
rotations and I'm not quite as comfortable yet.
Honestly, with pop and load, I was consistently surprising myself at how fast I was rotating, and had some accidental 720 and 540 spins that resulted
in entertaining failures.
And LOL that's on water, that's a different animal! A backroll is that easy on water or good deep snow. It's a lot tougher to hold down the amount of
edge necessary for that "easy backroll" on ATB! 
Tide? What's a tide? Man, it's 1000 miles to any ocean.
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
Member Is Offline
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Water is easiest cos like you said - minimal spankings! 
Back-rolls I started with. First one was at the end of a tack... I let the kite go up to 12 slowly, then carved upwind like I was going to stop but
instead of weighting the edge hard to stop, I let it keep carving and just spun around under the kite. Splashed down with the board in the right
direction and thought "Oh, it's possible".
Starting off, you don't want to use the kite at all or you'll end up doing too many rotations like EW up there 
I'm sure the video said it... park the kite just at 10:30 or 11 so you get lift but the kite is still flying forwards. Carve upwind (like for a jump)
but instead of loading and popping, just keep turning. As you leave the water, look over your shoulder and rotate your shoulders. You'll spin under
the kite without getting any height... helps if you're well-powered - it's MUCH harder when you're under-powered! And lift your knees to your chest or
you'll catch an edge...
I actually reckon it's pretty hard to control those - accidental sheeting in will see you lofted, over-rotate etc. Once you get used to it and can
divert brain processing time to thinking about it, you can sheet in or out to control the height. Good for transitions
What I do now (when showing off!) is just a regular jump, but with my head I aim to look dead upwind. Cos you've already carved for a jump, it's only
about a 90˚ rotation you make, so you sail up to the apex of the jump backwards As you start to drop, redirect the kite like you would for a normal jump but gently - sooner with a slow kite, later with a fast one. The
change in direction of pull from the kite, and looking over your shoulder, will pull you around the rest of the way! I think that's key to a
controlled rotation and clean landing… Land with the board in the direction of your travel and ride away  you only rotate about 180˚ in the air so it's pretty easy… and believe it or not, as big as you can boost a
regular jump, you can do big phat lazy back-rolls!
Intentional multiple rotations I'm still working on 
Front-rolls I found a tad more tricky. I was doing them fine when I first learned them, went through a spell of being unable to land any but now am
back to doing them ok… ish
I find front-rolls more lower-body oriented - you have to use your back leg to really take off, lift your front leg properly (and whip your head &
shoulder around) and bring your knees up - to get the same control as back-rolls. Again, the goal is to use the kite to get the lift and redirection
to get you up, around and then spotting your landing, with the board in the right direction ready for landing.
Haven't got the cajones to try really big front-rolls yet, but can do front-roll down-loop transitions easily, and am coming close to landing - and
the important bit, riding away from doubles.
Both of these 'tricks' really open a whole new way of playing around on the water - transitions have more options, there's something to do when you're
not boosting big, and if you have the talent to include grabs… mercy! 
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
Member Is Offline
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Jeez look at all those words 
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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PHREERIDER
Posts: 5781
Registered: 2-13-2008
Location: SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilled....but ready to SAIL!
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ok herb stopping thinking and throw the trick. here are the elements before you commit.
back roll land board,
power and speed. the more you have the less you have to do.
medium speed, somewhat standing on top of the board so you can make the kite pop as throw the trick when kick hard up wind
kite- over your head with running speed with decent tension through the harness
board-kick a hard edge upwind (its quick and lift the board leading with the front knee)
AS YOU KICK (AT THE SAME TIME) THROW YOUR HEAD AROUND AND LOOK. it'll be quick and over in a flash
the sudden edge up wind, the board swing, the head turn ALL make the pop. WITH rotation built- in.
and element to help make you look is to place something on the ground as point of focus ...so when you come around YOU SEE it.
on water its more controlled with the board and faster truly less effort.
front rolls - more height ! and dropping the leading shoulder and staying balled up (for stiff old guy knees IN!) the pop itself kind chokes the
kite if speed is weak, so aggressive kite action on the finish is a must or you drop. on the land board it is faster then most will commit to or
loop the kite ...i loop the kite, the counter looping adds the power to finish.
and as KK adds transitions are the place to do this to start...the flow just is easier
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carltb
Posts: 1610
Registered: 10-27-2008
Location: preston
Member Is Offline
Mood: slick as a leopard!!
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i think youre got all the advice you need posted above. a front roll is more a 450 and a backroll is more a 270 so rotating under the bar is easier
and the only thing you need to remember is, turn your head in the direction you want to rotate. your head turns your shoulders turns your body
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thanson2001ok
Posts: 829
Registered: 3-19-2010
Location: Appleton, WI
Member Is Offline
Mood: SAD! Moving and kites are in a box.
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Holy buckets, Phree is back! Welcome home big guy.
End of veer...
Todd... NAPKA US59 \"Have you taught a kid to fly lately?\"
Ozone 4m, 10m AccessXC
PL 19m, 16m Venom | 10m, 13m Venom II | 17m Vortex | 2.6m Viper | 2.3m Vapor | 6m, 9m, 15m Phantom | 22m Guerilla
Flysurfer 8m, 12m DLX Unity |8m Outlaw| 19m Speed 2.5 SA | 2.5m, 6m Viron
Action Vortex 6.6m Foil (FOR SALE) | Mac Bego 600
Flexifoil 1.2m, 2.4m Sting | 6.6m Blade III
The Original Flexifoil and Hawaiian Team Kite
Snow: Volant Alpine Skis | SnowBlades | PL Ice Buggy | PL KiteSled Land: Coyote Skates | Ivanpah Buggy
Water: Peter Lynn KiteCat
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crazyherb
Posts: 462
Registered: 7-13-2005
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Member Is Offline
Mood: Where's the water?
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Did you guys learn while rolling or static (running)?
NAPKA US70
Switch Element 2 15M, Element 3 11M, Helium 18M
Liquid Force Proof 161, MTH Custom (Water)
Flexboardz Haize (Land)
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Snake
Posts: 480
Registered: 7-5-2012
Location: Midwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Boost to the moon
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Definitely use a board. The board protects your feet and ankles if you screw up. I broke my foot by trying to learn spins static. The board makes it
possible to roll of it. If you land slightly sideways your foot bones can snap like a twig from the shearing force of landing. The board will roll
when you land sideways reducing the pressure.
Arcs - Charger I 8m, 10m, 12m, Venom I 13m - F-Arc 1200, 1600
Single Skin - Born-Kite LongStar2
Fixed Bridles - Pansh Legend 4.5m - Peter Lynn Voltage 3m
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Flyfish
Posts: 390
Registered: 12-26-2011
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Hey Crazy,
All good advise above. It's truely in your head! LOL. But seriously, it's ALL head and shoulders. turn your head, make sure your shoulders follow and
the rest of your body comes along for the ride. Just like the guys above say, if you throw your head, you'll rotate rediculusly fast.
I get to fly airplanes for a living, so I wanted to give an airplane analogy...
The first time someone was teaching me how to do a roll, He said "take the controls and move them to the stops and when your upside down - DON'T COME
OFF THE STOPS!"
It's all just commitment. really nothing more than that. When you throw your head and shoulders, do it like you mean it!
Have fun bro!
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Kamikuza
Posts: 6415
Registered: 1-9-2005
Location: Shiga, JAPAN
Member Is Offline
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Yeah good point - forward-roll needs much more commitment that a back-roll...
Yeah... I got a kite. Or two...
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