I hate the lines on my new kite...
My kite lines twist up and are all screwed up........
Why are some lines orange and others........
One side is 2 feet longer than the other...
my lines are fuzzy about 2 feet up....

Some time ago I ordered a ton of line sets for my team riders and for my test kites. I ordered 400/200 quad line sets.
As soon as I launched my kite with the new line set, one power line broke about 1/3 the distance from the kite. I put on another new set and POW, same thing. Now a team rider comes over and tells me he has broke his new set.
OK, time to make a few phone calls. Not happy with the answers I was getting, I made a few calls to a couple of guys I know in the UK and Germany. With a few questions and answers that were not answering the questions, I started over from square one.

Back to the company I ordered the line sets from.
I started to ask basic questions,
does a knot in the line cause a problem? How? Why? When? Where?
If I over power a line past its rating, what are the signs? How? Why? When? Where?
What are the normal ratings of lines for kites, How? Why? When? Where?
How........?
If...........?
What.......?
I was asking all kinds of questions and taking notes all over the place.
I was not happy with the answers I was getting from any of the questions from any of the people I talked to.

Now, I will fast forward to a number of months ago to a simple test I did to a few line sets from a few manufacturers.
I have a 40' deck with a roof on it and I set up a few hooks on one end at the roof and a few pulleys at the other end at the roof and with a bunch of barbell weights, I made up a few 44' lines(400lb) and connected one end to the hook and the other end through the pulley and with the same lbs of weight on the end of each line started taking notes.
Not sure where to start, so with the basics, line stretch.
Took some notes and measurement a few hours later, 2 days later, and 1 week later.
Now with the results of this little test, I added more lines from a few other companies and began again.
With a few other factors added in for a "more real life test" I added fresh water, salt water, sand and a bit of sand paper for good measure. With 5lbs weight on the ends of the lines for the test, I made up a few more line sets and changed a few of the parameters of the next set of lines.

Now , to make life easy on me and to not point fingers on line manufactures, and get some info on what how, when, and so on, I started to call some of the manufactures again. This time I was asking specific questions and not happy with the answers, started to understand the "the line business".

I am sure at this point you are going crazzy with a bazillion questions of your own, and asking if I am going to say anything worth hearing. Well the answer is YES.
But first I have to set the stage.
First off, when you buy a set of lines that are marked 400/200lb, you are not getting a set of 400/200lb lines. This is a number that is used to designate this manufactures particular line set. Another set will be labeled 500/200lb, 500/300lb, and so on. Some will label the lines at !00% (the real life breaking point), some will rate them at 150%, and one company at 175%. They stretch the line and were it brakes is the number they use to rate the line. Now it is smart to rate the line at 150% or more of the breaking point for good measure but now we are talking about money and profits. So we will not go there.

Now to add to the test of the lines, the first go round was with 5lbs for 2 weeks, then went to 40lbs for 2 weeks, and then went to 75lbs for 2 days.

Out of the bag, and off the winder, and into my deck test area, the best line set I found with the least amount of stretch through out all the parameters, was the, are you ready for the fight? Ready for the loud responses and the arguments to start?
Pansh. The new line sets, not the old stuff.
All lines stretched, some more than others. The part that was interesting was those that had the least amount with the 5lbs was not the same as with the 40 or 75. Life is getting very complicated, and nothing is making life easy as to what how why and so on.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that I need to ask questions when I order lines. And it will still be a crap shoot as to the quality of the lines ordered.
Do I want thick, slippery, orange, yellow, flat, round, kevlar, and on and on and on, etc.
I had 2 line sets that had opposite results that came from the same rating, different lots from the same company.


In the end, I came to the conclusion that as with anything else in this sport, whether kites, buggies, etc, it is all the same and it is as different as day and night. The set of lines you got this week from company X is not the same as the same set you get next week. It may have the same rating, package, label, etc, but not the same.

Can I ask what lines you tested from which companies?

Were these branded lines from companies, or were these lines bought from the people who supply those companies?

I understand manufacturing, and the way that companies can share a plant production floor even though they are different brands, so that say, the company that supplies BEST with their lines also supply Slingshot, etc etc...

I personally have never had an unexpected failure of any lines on my Slingshots/Ozones/Flysurfer, but I LOVE this data.

Man my head is spinning. This would be much more helpful if we could see your data. I think you went through all this just to brag that you have a really big deck. :o:D:P Seriously, I'm interested in who did what. I just use HQ lines that come with their kites and Vector lines on Peter Lynn stuff. I've only broken one line and it was because I had kite killers hooked on without the stopper knot and the loops melted when I released with buggy sliding and fence approaching at OOBE field about 5 years ago. The only lines I've had noticeable stretch in were Climax, which I considered a premium brand. They were very thick as well. With regular knots at the ends, twists and tangles were common since the knots were like grappling hooks. I really appreciate the little pull tabs that many lines come with these days.

Nice work Jeff! It would be great if we could see your data and exactly which lines were tested.

Thanks for sharing this!! There really is an incredible wealth of knowledge here on this forum, and I'm glad you were willing to do a good thorough investigation of this topic and share some of the results. It certainly was not what I expected! I am curious about the rest of the data, and other tests, like the "sticktion" test or a shock loading test.
I feel bad for whining about my lines on that other thread now, sorry!

I suppose one has to be careful about naming companies these days.

It's disappointing to hear that within a batch of similarly branded lines there can be a wide variation of quality. It does point to a lack of quality control,..... but is that indicative of the fact that as a consumer in todays market we want everything cheaply made as possible.

I know you have named a brand you thought did well, but generally is line cost any indication of quality here? ( I don't expect any brand names)

On a further note, I do tend to find with most things, an extensive list of don't do this with our product, for kite lines it would no doubt be things like
1.Don't Expose to UV light. ( read daylight)
2.don't Expose to chemicals..... ( read salt water)
3.don't Expose to abrasive materials ( read sand)
4. don't expose to heat ( read my kites in a bag in the sun)
5. Don't expose to cold..... Forget going ice Buggying .

I've got a spare set of lines in my box in case of emergency, but haven't needed them yet.