So I've noticed that when the winds are high my foil kites don't always like to sit on the ground when fully braked. When I apply the brakes the kite folds as it should and looses power- then eventually settles down to the ground... but once there it doesn't always stay there. Sometimes (esp in higher winds) the trailing edge will sort of flip up and grab some wind, and the kite will start to pull off the ground. It won't fly off, but it will head up in the air and flop (or sometimes flip) around, and it doesn't seem all that secure.

Seems to happen more with my flow and Montana than with the IMP. I remember one time flying the Montana I back-stalled the kite to the ground, and when the kite was down and settled nicely I handed my wife the brake line so I could go an secure the kite. She didn't do anything, but within a few moments of handing it off to her the kite went up and started flopping around for a good bit. I ended up having to walk up the lines with a gloved hand to secure the kite.

Is this a characteristic of open cell foils? Am I doing something wrong? Is there an adjustment needed to the back lines to fix this?

Any help appreciated. Thanks!

Something I've observed with one of my kites. With my 2m Flow; when the brakes are set to the most slack knot setting; the kite will sit parked on the ground just fine. If I am to set it on the next knot up; the kite tends to not behave and won't hardly stay parked on the ground. Tends to hop, bounce around, and attempt to take off all the time.

So there might be such a thing as too much brake... A certain amount of tension will keep it on the ground, but more might send it back up?

Anyone else experienced this?

Never seen this w/ my Frenzy or Access. Definitely need to have brakes staked behind the bar, if you can visualize that.

Yep- check on that thanson2011ok. On my Montana there is a brake handle that goes between the left and right brake lines (I think Frenzy and Access have the same thing), and that's the handle that I stake out fully behind the bar.

Yep, same system on Access and Frenzy.

Yep - too much brake when parked. Next time, try a little experiment with the kite - full brake when parked on the ground, then when it starts to get wind underneath the trailing edge and threaten to go inside out and back up, just add a little more tension to the power lines and it should sit back up properly. Trick is to find that setting when parked.

Because I either fly depower or turbo bar, I always have the brake strap to place behind my rear tire to keep the kite parked but I find it safer to tuck the bar behind the tire too - just keeps a bit of tension on the power lines - not enough so the kite will fly but enough to keep the wind from getting under the trailing edge.

As soon as I park the kite I will always keep one eye on it if I'm just stopping quickly, but if I'm stopping for a few minutes or more I will sand the trailing edge or pull end of the kite into the wind and sand that and if I'm going to leave the kite, I'll wrap the lines up too. I've had parked kites disturbed by others before resulting in uncontrollable spins so now I try to always eliminate any potential trouble from a parked kite.

I've never tried this - but how about a pair of kite stakes to hold the handles at just the right angle when parked? Could be worth an experiment.

I can hear all the arc owners laughing at me while they have a smoke/do a crossword/tie their shoelaces while their well behaved kite bobs peacefully overhead!!!

And don't try and do any of that with your foil overhead - it only takes a split second for the kite to do a downturn when you're not looking and give you a very nasty surprise.

Right- that makes sense- thanks John. So there's a sweet spot where just the right amount of brake relative to front line tension will keep the kite settled nicely down.

Now I just need some wind so I can give it a try

And yes- these arcs are certainly interesting... still waiting for a good day to get out with my little one. The stability is very attractive, but the huge sizes scare me :o

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Originally posted by MikeDobbs And yes- these arcs are certainly interesting... still waiting for a good day to get out with my little one. The stability is very attractive, but the huge sizes scare me :o

Ha ha, I've been flying arc's for so long, flying fixed bridle scares me. :wee:

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So there's a sweet spot where just the right amount of brake relative to front line tension will keep the kite settled nicely down. null

You need front line tension and downwind position. If I have more than about of 1/3 of a foil or my Access down on the the ground the trailing edge might catch stronger wind and flip up. After landing I often walk toward the kite to put most of the kite on the ground. In low winds the kite sits there but in higher winds I have to keep more of the kite inflated and directly downwind or the trailing edge catches the wind and flips up. In stronger winds I try to land at the edge of the window then walk to park it downwind to prevent the upwind tip from folding back and starting a nasty tumble.

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Originally posted by John Holgate I can hear all the arc owners laughing at me while they have a smoke/do a crossword/tie their shoelaces while their well behaved kite bobs peacefully overhead!!!

Yes John but you and i will be well rested from the extra hour sleep we got because they had to get up so early to start setting up their arc :P

The kite flapping around is alot more common when the winds are shifty I have found. So take notice of that next time as well. If the wind tends to change directions a bit it will get under your sail and cause it to flap around.

When I see a foil bouncing on the ground I know it's not happy, it's overpowered.

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Originally posted by MikeDobbs So I've noticed that when the winds are high my foil kites don't always like to sit on the ground when fully braked. When I apply the brakes the kite folds as it should and looses power- then eventually settles down to the ground... but once there it doesn't always stay there. Sometimes (esp in higher winds) the trailing edge will sort of flip up and grab some wind, and the kite will start to pull off the ground. It won't fly off, but it will head up in the air and flop (or sometimes flip) around, and it doesn't seem all that secure. Seems to happen more with my flow and Montana than with the IMP. I remember one time flying the Montana I back-stalled the kite to the ground, and when the kite was down and settled nicely I handed my wife the brake line so I could go an secure the kite. She didn't do anything, but within a few moments of handing it off to her the kite went up and started flopping around for a good bit. I ended up having to walk up the lines with a gloved hand to secure the kite. Is this a characteristic of open cell foils? Am I doing something wrong? Is there an adjustment needed to the back lines to fix this? Any help appreciated. Thanks!

yes

no

why would you need to adjust lines for your kite when its sitting on the ground

all your adjustments is based on when the kite is flying and make corrections as need

solution : sand or sand bag

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Originally posted by ripsessionkites why would you need to adjust lines for your kite when its sitting on the ground all your adjustments is based on when the kite is flying and make corrections as need solution : sand or sand bag

Yeah I know- my question is more about how do I secure the kite safely while I walk/run the 20-30m from the handles/bar to the kite to put the sand on the trailing edge? If the kite is bouncing around I don't feel like it's safe to leave attached to a ground stake because it pulls plenty to rip that stake out.

I guess my question was... if the length of the back lines is such that when I stake the kite off on the brake handle there is too much tension on the back lines and not enough on the front, should make an adjustment to the line length?

Maybe my rear lines are a little too short? Perhaps the kite would even fly better if I lengthened them a bit...

We never staked the handles. After the kite was backed down to the ground, we always just walked the kite up against some object (tree, post, garbage can, or a pitch fork stuck into the ground) until it folded up and deflated. Can't do that with a bar though, way more control with handles.

To launch, we would apply the brakes fully, back away and to the side of the object until all clear downwind before launch.

Old school.

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After the kite was backed down to the ground, we always just walked the kite up against some object (tree, post, garbage can, or a pitch fork stuck into the ground) until it folded up and deflated. Can't do that with a bar though, way more control with handles.

I have occasionally used a non-barbed wire fence at home for this - works very well. And one of our regular flyers - who has been flying these things since they were invented - is very good at judging where his kite is in relation to whatever object he's about to gift wrap!

Can't do it with a bar ?? I'll take that bet...

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Originally posted by John Holgate Quote: After the kite was backed down to the ground, we always just walked the kite up against some object (tree, post, garbage can, or a pitch fork stuck into the ground) until it folded up and deflated. Can't do that with a bar though, way more control with handles. I have occasionally used a non-barbed wire fence at home for this - works very well. And one of our regular flyers - who has been flying these things since they were invented - is very good at judging where his kite is in relation to whatever object he's about to gift wrap! Can't do it with a bar ?? I'll take that bet...

Hmmm... maybe we could add this to the list of possible event activities :wink2: