Power Kite Forum

Any Paraski Flex experts here?

Randy - 11-11-2018 at 09:00 PM

Hi

I just got a f10-60 on Ebay. Seemed like a very good deal - never used and looks new, but apparently a fairly old vintage. Anyway, I am hoping there are some her who have used this kite in the past who may help me understand it better. I downloaded some instructions which seem to be for the 2009 - 2010 vintage, but mine might be older. It does look like it works the same way, but the is only one long rod not 3 pieces which seem to have been used in later models. The bag it came in says #192 on it if that means anything.

B-Roc - 11-11-2018 at 10:56 PM

I was really interested in those and kitewings as i learned about the sport of kite skiing (my entrance to power kiting) but I wound up with foils. Congratulations on your purchase and let us know how you get along.

Randy - 11-12-2018 at 05:48 AM

Thanks. It looks simple enough and I seem to have what I need to get started. I'll keep you posted. While we normally don't have any snow in Georgia (and when do, it is impossible to go anywhere) I have seen videos where it is used with buggy''s, landboards and even kitesurfing in shallow water.

shehatesmyhobbies - 11-12-2018 at 06:07 PM

I've watched a couple YouTube videos of those things. Pretty cool. Good luck with it. Seems pretty simple to use

skimtwashington - 11-12-2018 at 09:05 PM

Single Skin!...with rod stiffened leading edge..

I have a different model Paraski Flex that was my very first powerkite(2006). It was 13.5meters . I used it on ice skates with one short lesson in only 3-5mph winds that day!

Mine had a zipper to shrink it's size by zippering some of the fabric up. and it had adjustment knots on bridal that you also used to change it and fly in 4 different modes, depending on the wind speed and giving it a wildly big wind range of 3mph to 35+mph to fly in....a kind of one kite quiver! This kite with the zipper is no longer made.


The kite you bought should have 3 modes for flying in different speed winds.

Important:
Did your purchase include the harness made specifically for these kites ?
The Paraski flex harness is a somewhat 'primitive' leg looped and waist wrap that uses a swivel PANIC SNAP as a SAFETY RELEASE. This panic snap is what you use to hook onto a metal ring that hangs off the control bar.

Also the panic slap slides from hip to hip on a line on the front of the harness....


If a Paraski Flex harness was not included in your purchase you will either need to buy it's special harness..... or... you can rig your present harness to accommodate a panic snap( these are cheap).. but you will have a fixed position of 'pull'(belly button), instead of it sliding from hip to hip(when turning). This is okay, though, but not preferred .

You may have seen these instructions but if not... .Instruction booklet on website ( not fully detailed but) .. go here:http://www.paraskiflex.com/media/uploads/products/document-en/GuideSerieF09EN.pdf


Also accessories like the harness are available...but, again, you may be able to rig a regular kite harness. You will at least need a swivel panic snap for a safety release.

A PKF member had set up the Paraski flex harness to be used with a depowerbar and foils in this video, but just view this to get a close up of the harness set up:.


These kites are great for snow(as all SS kites are as they shed snow) and...... they don't need staking out:o, nor a LEASH:o(When you hit safety release as they lay flat when grounded.


Also of note....the fly lines are relatively short at about 30 feet long. Good for tighter spaces.


Curious how much you paid for it...?

Randy - 11-13-2018 at 05:37 AM

Wow! Thanks for the info. I have an old windsurf harness that I think can easily be modified to work like the one in the video. That should be easy. I do have those instructions. I have found places to order the panic snap online but I am looking to see if there is a local supplier. It seems they are used for horse riders (??).

First questions that comes to mind - mine also has the zipper in it. It seems from some older instruction I found (written in French) that you zip it up for "storm mode". Is that the case?

Also I don't seem to have any line that could be used to put the kite in "half storm" mode. I guess that is just something I could make, but wasn't sure about the lengths of the line. It seems from the instructions you can vary the width to about anything you want. Does that sound right?

tsteigs - 11-13-2018 at 07:13 AM

Randy - Cool looking kite. I look forward to reading your review and impressions.

eric67m - 11-13-2018 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
I have found places to order the panic snap online but I am looking to see if there is a local supplier. It seems they are used for horse riders (??).


I have seen snap clips like that at my local farm supply / co-op store.

skimtwashington - 11-13-2018 at 08:38 AM

Actually the zipper mode is NOT storm mode but for 'moderate' winds in my booklet. Storm mode is unzipped with end tips tethered to each other.

The Pdf instructions on line do not show a ZIPPED mode diagram ...so you may have an older version of that model. None of the present model kites seems to show any kite with a zipper( looked at a few's instructions). You might contact them by e-mail or phone for instructions on your older model explaining you have a zipper and no available directions.

You may now have 4 modes and not 3 as I first thought.
You must make sure you have made the correct bridal point attachment variation for each mode or it wont fly right. Most of these are fairly simple though...


Also make sure the Panic Snap(yes, most common to horse husbandry) has the swivel end(360 degree spin) and is not fixed.


You can use any line to tie ends together in SEMI-STORM mode. Your model is different size than mine (which used a 30 inch piece) unfortunately, and the diagram is undefined(what length) in the on-line pdf booklet...so... that is another important thing to ask if you contact them by phone or e-mail. It seems you need two carabiners to attach it. Also, there is are several loop on this line to vary how much you 'taco' your kite(and pull ends together) . The more you bring the tips together the less powerl to compensate higher winds. This actually adds in addition 'sub-modes' to deal with high wind conditions. Also the piece is not available under 'accessories'..nor is harness for that matter... but they may be out of stock. Still you could make the line piece or several of different lengths.


So, you have a little work ahead of you... but they are fun kites.

Ideally you fly with just one hand on the bar.

You have to work this kite to jump as it's not a lifty kite. and with the safety release, together, you have a kite that is safer than many others.

It's an odd looking site when flying in 'taco' shape!


...good luck

Randy - 11-13-2018 at 10:15 AM

Thanks. I do hope to get this going soon and the harness project is underway. I should have a panic snap (with swivel) soon.

Upon reading the translation again it appear the zipper is way for a partial "depower' w/o having to go to storm mode.

The 2003 vintage instructions I found say:

Use in strong winds: Zipper the zipper or put in storm mode if the wind is too strong. Install the leash: attach one end to the front of the sail and pass the other to your harness belt.

Storm mode: Connect the flanges in "1" and "2" by buttoning on itself the cord that is there (see drawing on the bottom right). Move the lines of direction towards the rope on the third flange in "3". Connect the tips in "4". Do not forget to put the leash: the sail deflates less easily in storm mode and you can lose it if you escape.


@skinwashington - the model I have came in a big flat bag with a rounded top about 3ft by 4 ft. The spar has to be folded up to get into the bag if that gives any clue to the vintage.



skimtwashington - 11-13-2018 at 02:51 PM




My kite fit in a long ~ 5-6ft by 6-8 inch tube of a bag....slid in from one end. Don't know about others.


I forgot when it's in storm mode it wont really lie flat and so it may blow away without a leash in taco shape. Don't ask where you would attach the leash to kite's bridal..? Maybe one more question for the maker...?


I used my kite 95+ % of the time in full or zipped mode where it would lay flat and need no stake or leash. I seem to get a lot of wind range in just those two modes. Most videos show flying in these two modes. You'd remember the flying taco shape!


Your most important task after getting harness set up is to remember the bridal point adjustments( carry a copy of different mode diagrams with you). Make sure you're on the right 'knot' for that mode. The simplest adjustment are for these two modes ...going from one to the other...after zipping or unzipping.


Curious to see your final harness set up..


Randy - 11-13-2018 at 06:19 PM

Here is a picture of the harness and kite. Once I get the panic snap should be done.

I think the newer models have three piece spars while mine is one piece.

I appreciate your comment about using it mainly in regular or zip setup - I'll concentrate on that for now.

20181113_201344_resized.jpg - 129kB

skimtwashington - 11-13-2018 at 07:43 PM

hmnn...that's not bad.

But...barely leg loops ! Primative. but if it keeps it from rising up the waist, that's good.


The bag looks more like a plastic bag 'cause you can see through it...?


Are you sure it's one spar and not a sectioned shock corded joining of several pieces. Did you slide it out of it'd sleeve(or can you) and look at it? that would be a long spar, and not typical(especially from manufacturing logics).
Mine is 5 sections that I slid into leading edge sleeve... for about 20 ft together.

Your set- as sitting- is pop it out and go then, regardless if it's one long spar or not. That's a plus.

Hope to hear how it goes..(video?)


Randy - 11-14-2018 at 07:32 AM

The bag is actually a sort of translucent tarp type material. It has strands of fiber's woven through it. It has a zipper to close the bag. I have not been able to find any place on the kite to allow the spar to be removed. Feeling alone the spar sleeve I have not found anything that feels like a joint or ferrule. Considering that they made this size and style bag for it, I suspect it is only one piece. I'm going to send an email to Parskiflex to see if they can tell me the vintage, etc. Who knows - considering its perfect condition perhaps will want put it in a museum and give me new model. ;)

B-Roc - 11-14-2018 at 10:01 PM

How do those horse shackles hold up / release under extreme load. They look nice and this is the first time I've seen them. Usually the ones you find at west marine are what's posted here.

B-Roc - 11-14-2018 at 10:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
The bag is actually a sort of translucent tarp type material. It has strands of fiber's woven through it. It has a zipper to close the bag. I have not been able to find any place on the kite to allow the spar to be removed. Feeling alone the spar sleeve I have not found anything that feels like a joint or ferrule. Considering that they made this size and style bag for it, I suspect it is only one piece. I'm going to send an email to Parskiflex to see if they can tell me the vintage, etc. Who knows - considering its perfect condition perhaps will want put it in a museum and give me new model. ;)


As an old time dual line / framed kite flier, I can tell you that you can probably find ferrules for that tube if you want to cut it down to make it easier to pack. As them what tube it is (mm) and see if they have ferrules or check online. Probably a pretty beefy tube that would work with an external ferrule and then some tube inserts for reinforcement. Tape the tube before you cut to prevent splintering.

skimtwashington - 11-15-2018 at 09:01 AM


Quote:

How do those horse shackles hold up / release under extreme load


The Panic Snap is reliable. Last quite a while before wearing out I would think.

I have always thought of adding a panic snap into Fixed Bridal flying as there is no safety release and might make things...well...safer!

Theres the AQR exception for my statement- for buggy riders -but relatively few are using them.(and I know AQR is even safer than manual quick releases as it takes pilot thought and action out of equation). But what about those riding on ATB ,in-lines, ice skates...?


The panic snap could be added in for all types of riders using FB kites with a STROP LINE. Just add panic snap on harness at spreader bar's hook , either replacing hook or an extension off the hook. Attaching it as close to belt will keep the arm reach and positioning the same.

This said, again, it's not an AQR and relies on pilot quick thinking, Some times you just won't have the time to think or be in a bad position, but other times you might free yourself from harm. So still better than nothing.

So far I have not tried this. On high wind / gusty days I will often fly off-stop.... and that(my hands) are my safety release(and my anxiety release) ! Other than that... I have just always relied on safe piloting choices... but I think about it(panic snap)...

BTW...I'm thinking releasing a FB kite with handles tethered by a strop line, creates more of a run away kite problem than un-stroped handles.... And I don't think a leash for this set-up is safe either... What'ya think?

Buy the quick release from paraskifex

doneski - 11-15-2018 at 06:27 PM


doneski - 11-15-2018 at 06:28 PM

Paraskiflex.com sells the quick release so give them a call. They are cheap compared to a chickenloop and safer than hardware store stuff.

doneski - 11-15-2018 at 06:40 PM

Call them. They answere the phone whenever I called and have never answered an email. People on the phone speak English.

Randy - 11-16-2018 at 08:04 AM

It flies!! Flew it this morning in pretty light winds (5-10?) at a nearby park. Shortest lines (5 ft?) w/o harness but got the idea. When there was enough wind to keep it flying it was not hard to control. Lots of power and it seemed to have a pretty big window. It came with 30ft extensions should that cover a lot of wind range. Started out half zipped - wouldn't fly that way, but once I spotted that and fixed it it took right off.

skimtwashington - 11-16-2018 at 11:44 AM

Any Video?:bisou:


The standard fly line length is 30 ft -so those aren't extensions....them's the real fly lines!!

Don(doneski) has bought and used 'extension lines but they were more than 5ft.
5 feet is nothing. Maybe they were 15 ft... at least. He might chime in to say.


I forgot and left this out previously but:

You really need to be attached to harness to fly and control properly...and easily. When you hook the control bar's hanging ring into the panic snap it holds the kite in position so all you have to do is turn bar with one hand.

Yes, You CAN fly unattached(I have accidently forgot to clip in and I felt the awkwardness/less control right away and clipped in immediately!) but it's actually harder and even awkward( in strong winds especially)... it's MUCH easier to control with your body holding the kite and hand controlling bar/turning . It can be as subtle as turning a door knob...the input from just a small degree of twist.




**Please note: the small cord holding the RING you clip into is attached to bar is placed at a precise balance point .Make a mental note.. do not loosen and slide this any anywhere else along the bar.You will loose almost all real control if so.


(When the bar is balanced and kite 'inflated' both ends should be equal distance from you or under same pressure.... and NOT one bar end pulling dramatically more forward)



This bar is not related to a depower bar in any way!


I suggest, obviously, trying again with 30 ft fly lines and clipped ( by panic snap) into harness.

Didn't get one yet? ....Get it quick!



You'll see..



Randy - 11-16-2018 at 02:54 PM

No video yet. Just got the panic snap today. So I'm ready to fly harnessed. Unfortunately it came after I got back from buggy riding. I did manage a few buggy runs (the best one was going uphill ;)) but I realised that the kite really needs to be hooked in to get the balance right. Winds were reported as only 5-10 at the time, so it just wasn't enough and I think the imbalance was probably causing backstalls. (I tried 3 other kites along the way including a 5.5 NS2 - none worked very well.)

So now all I need is wind - which doesn't seem like it is coming very soon. Stay tuned to this channel and thanks for the suggestions.

Randy - 11-18-2018 at 10:45 AM

@skimtwashington - BTW - to understand the sizing. I have NPW 21 - 2.5, 3.75 and 5.0 along with NS2 5.5 and 7.0. Where does the wind range/power of the F10-60 fit with these NPW's.

skimtwashington - 11-18-2018 at 11:47 AM

I never flew your model. But..

The listing on the website said present incarnation of your model is 8.68 meters. Your old model..? Probably close to that.


Remember these fly with a curl shape- say like an arc- so less power per meter than a 'flatter' profile like a FB foil...or even probably most SS like NPW or the Borns.


Been so long...hard to compare -and never did... but I would only guess to say my 13+meter Paraski Flex flew equivalent to something like 6-7m in FB size fully open(unzipped)..and maybe even a meter less. Tough to say. Your Paraski Flex might be equivalent to your 5. or 5.5m or even a bit smaller...

Don't forget, with all your modes for that kite (zipped, unzipped, storm, semi-storm) you'll have a WIDE range of wind speed this kite will work well in...if you like it.


You'll find out...

Randy - 11-18-2018 at 12:27 PM

Thanks. I thought maybe it would be somewhere around a 5 NPW. 8.68 M sounds right - I could measure it next time I unfold. It did seem the other day that as soon as there was enough wind to fly it, it had plenty of pull for my buggy. I had already tried my 3.75 NPW and 4.5 g-kite, which were underpowered. From the little I have seen so far - I think I will like it a lot. Might have some wind in a few days now.

BTW - I registered the kite with Paraski and sent them a few questions but haven not heard back yet.

skimtwashington - 11-18-2018 at 04:12 PM

You likely won't hear from them based on Don's experience.
From donski's earlier post:


Quote:

Call them. They answere the phone whenever I called and (they) have NEVER ANSWERED AN EMAIL. People on the phone speak English.






Randy - 11-18-2018 at 04:27 PM

Thanks. Was worried they would not speak English. BTW - found a video of the Paraski Flex used with kite buggy.






Randy - 11-20-2018 at 07:57 PM

A quick video of my Paraski flex with proper harness today at the lake. Mostly just launching, back forth flying, walking with the kite and landing. Nothing exciting but have to start somewhere. Did manage a scud across the beach. Only did that once before. This was the first time I did it intentionally. The video shows both the zipped (at the start) and unzipped flying. Zipping does seem to make it less powerful and needs more win to launch. It also has a reverse effect on the wind - zip it up and wind drops, unzip it and wind suddenly gets stronger. ;)




skimtwashington - 11-20-2018 at 10:53 PM

I noticed it zipped at the end .

Though it looked like it was flying okay...
Did you remember/know to move Line 'A' onto the next knot when you flew in zipped mode?

Make sure you have the 'A' line on the right knot , or it will not fly well.


Present on-line 'guide' on the F10-60 Does NOT SHOW ZIPPED MODE DIAGRAM.

So...What knot? I don't see your year model on-line or it's GUIDEBOOK DIAGRAM for MODE SETTINGS.

This may help:
On my different but also zip-able model(F5-30) ,:
* for ZIPPED mode I move line 'A' to longest or last knot from bar.
**Fully open in UNZIPPED mode, LINE 'A" I put on middle or second knot.

Might work same with yours...likely.

Always trial and error if not(not the knot). If it doesn't seem to fly right....move it one knot(up or down) and try again. This is for these two modes (unzipped and zipped)

Those two modes are easy..... the 3rd mode to try(not as simple)......in high winds..is Half-Storm mode,:
Move line 'A' to shortes knot(closest to control bar). Then add line of cord across wing tips....where you attach a varying length(single length w/ 3 loops on one end at different length points) attach by 'biners to kite edgetips(or you might find another way to attach?). Might be trial and error because on my diagram and the 2009 guide for Half-Storm or SEMI-Storm is different . (If you DON'T have an unknown short piece of cord that hangs from leading edge (Rod sleeve) a foot or two from tips on your model??...Then that is all you do for Half storm. If you DO have this line you have to move Directional line to it )

Try a piece of cord from a 5 feet to 8 feet long to connect tips in Half Storm ..According to website diagram /pdf guide ... see how that works. The shorter the piece the more power you'll lose .This is how you can adjust it to fly not overpowered in different high(er) wind speeds.


If I am not right and to save too much trial and error I would THEN try and get your older model guide book for correct adjustment diagrams....page copies- by mail or e-mail. Call them.


Also...
Try flying using one hand. Hand should be balanced around the middle of bar.

Bonne Chance..

Randy - 11-21-2018 at 10:42 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. I called their customer service number (stated to be good for US and Canada) but kept getting a message saying it wasn't available in my area. (Do you suppose they didn't think there would be many snow kiters in Georgia?;)) but I will take another look at their web page.

The kite was set up with only two knot for the A line and the one in use was the closest to the bar. It would seem to me moving the a line to the upper knot makes sense to try.

The most useful thing would be to get info on how to keep the bridle lines from tangling when folding the kite up into the bag. I've decided to remove the lines from the bar completely and partially wrap the power lines on a little winder. The steering lines tend to get tangled in the power lines and the bar seems to get wrapped around everything. This should make it easier.

I did try one handed a bit - seemed pretty easy. Using the harness does make it a lot easier to fly. Biggest problem I have is that the normal way one uses a bar - pull in the direction the kite is supposed to go is just wrong - it is more like "steer the steering wheel" (which we are taught is the wrong was to use a kite bar) but I was getting used to it. I'm going to practice a bit more with the longer lines and then give it a go on the buggy.

skimtwashington - 11-21-2018 at 11:13 AM

Sounds like you made no knot adjustment between flying zipped and unzipped...and sounds like your models a bit different w/ just 2 knots. Try it on each position to see which works best.



Quote:

I've decided to remove the lines from the bar completely and partially wrap the power lines on a little winder
Uh.ohhh...:o

I would never do that...undo any lines. Why?

Because I hope you remember which end of bar had bridal 'bunch'("Here's the story of a kite named Brady:smilegrin:..Oops wrong bunch!)... and which had directional lines..because it matters.

Should be like mine so , the directional lines (they connect to tips)- go on bar end farthest from hanging ring. Bridal buch on other end nearest ring. If you don't undo it you'll never have to remember.

***remember... Never move cord w/ metal clip in ring on it. it's on the balance point of bar.


Your getting there...:)

Randy - 11-21-2018 at 12:30 PM

Speaking of experiments - I wonder if there is any reason this wouldn't work with a conventional 3 line bar? (Probably save that one for later.)

skimtwashington - 11-21-2018 at 12:31 PM

double post

Randy - 11-21-2018 at 12:35 PM

I was removing at least 2 of them every time to untangle anyway. They just connect to the bar with larks head and are color coded. (Of course none of this means I can't get it wrong.);) Agree on the harness line/ring.

Randy - 11-21-2018 at 06:46 PM

I have looked more closely at the kite I have and the diagrams in the manual. The differences I have noticed are mainly in the bridle attachment. In the 2009 manual there are 4 extension lines of 7, 15, or 30 feet discussed and a diagram showing how to install. Mine came with only 3 lines. The bridle connection point has two lines with two knots each for the A lines (one on each side) and then there is a loop for the rest of the bridles. It does not appear that it was intended to split up the B and C lines between right and left (as shown for storm mode in the manual). So what I think is that in my kite they intended for the longer lines are to be attached to the bar and connected to the steering lines and the power line on the kite (they even have the same color coding - 2 orange,1 blue.) I suspect they changed the line setup at some point from the model I have. (Perhaps when they also eliminated the zipper.)

I found another phone number for them and I'll see what they can tell me.

skimtwashington - 11-22-2018 at 08:39 AM

Odd you have only 3 of 4 needed extensions. Do you have more than one set/length of these, and also missing 4th line also?



Apparently original fly lines were as little length as 18 feet, BTW...according to 2009

You could make missing extension line I suppose.

For now I would forget flying with extensions until you get some many hours regular flying, and controls and adjustments in your back pocket.


And forget Storm mode for now too. it's most complicated. although later it would be good for real high winds.

Half-storm or Semi-Storm is okay to try now. You'll need cord.

Did you find out if you have that hanging extra Directional cord?




Again, it would help if you had exact directions for your year/model kite. A call for diagram copies by e-mail or regular mail?

Randy - 11-22-2018 at 09:59 AM

I'm going to stick with the current lines and setup and with full or zipper mode for now. Full storm mode does look more complicated than one would want to try in the field. (And I have plenty of kites for higher winds anyway.) But half storm seems pretty simple. Looking at the 2009 manual it seems the measurement are in feet. So I can easily make the required cord. I have plenty of lines so making a 4th line would not be a problem if it is needed. I do have the directional cords.

I plan to call them tomorrow after the holiday.


skimtwashington - 11-22-2018 at 01:28 PM


Quote:

I do have the directional cords (Semi-storm and Storm mode directional line attachment cord)
:D

..Not really named cord in diagram, just that you attach directional line there for Storm or Semi/Half Storm mode...on my guidebook anyway.

If you have that on yours I think it's for the same storm and half-storm mode for your model.

** When you set up kite in Half/Semi-Storm( and also Storm) mode, the zipper should be open...or again... is on mine. Definitely try this mode.


I am assuming with zipper you have 4 modes.

You'll have to learn wind range of each mode by trial... but using at least 3 modes, you should have an overall good range.

The 2009 guide says 9-31mph total wind range(15-50kph), but that includes storm mode. You might comfortably max out at anywhere between 21-25mph in half storm..?

The (Full) Storm Mode is just a pain. I failed trying to do it once. Little too involved and confusing. Better labeled and explained in guidebook might have helped. Thought I had it right but wouldn't fly.


wating for next video...:smilegrin:




Randy - 11-23-2018 at 02:24 PM

Called Paraski Flex today and they said they think there is some form of instruction for my kite - but the gentleman wasn't sure which one. So when their vintage Paraski Flexpert gets in on Monday they will find out and email it to me if possible, or call back and let me know what they have.

B-Roc - 11-25-2018 at 07:45 PM

Cleaning up around the house today and look what I found. I got this from Ross who ran Newwindsports.com in NH back in the day when he imported for MAC Para, ParaskiFlex and DirtSurfer. DVD is mostly skiing but also has some water riding. Pretty good considering it was produced over a decade ago. Maybe its on Youtube?

PSF.jpg - 246kB

Randy - 11-25-2018 at 08:46 PM

I've heard about the DVD, but haven't been able to locate one. I have found a lot of video on youtube, mostly snow, but I have found water, buggy and ATB riding. Haven't really found much that is instructional though. I really doesn't look like the basic kite has changed much but some of the features (such as the zipper, spars, and bridle changes for storm mode) have changed some. Hopefully whatever documentation I get will answer my remaining questions.


Randy - 12-4-2018 at 07:43 PM



First buggy rides today. I have a ways to go, but starting to get it. I have trouble with turns, but this kite is quite a bit different from anything else I've used. Closest thing to it would be flying the NPW and my single skin foil (g-kites) on a one handed bar and short lines. Tried it with the "half storm mode" which flew but was clearly not enough. Then went to zipper mode and finally unzipped. I was surprised how much of a difference the zipper makes. (Or did the wind just pick up?) Not a great day for wind. When flying the P-flex the reported winds were 9 mph (but obviously not so steady where I was.) Flew my 3.75 M NPW 21 after the Parasksi - and while it was fine in the gusts, rest of the time it preferred sitting on the ground.

soliver - 12-5-2018 at 09:14 AM

Good on you Randy!... I've been pining to get out to the Fairgrounds but been too busy... Its been nice and blustery 'round these N. Atlanta parts hasn't it!

Windstruck - 12-5-2018 at 10:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  


First buggy rides today. I have a ways to go, but starting to get it. I have trouble with turns, but this kite is quite a bit different from anything else I've used. Closest thing to it would be flying the NPW and my single skin foil (g-kites) on a one handed bar and short lines. Tried it with the "half storm mode" which flew but was clearly not enough. Then went to zipper mode and finally unzipped. I was surprised how much of a difference the zipper makes. (Or did the wind just pick up?) Not a great day for wind. When flying the P-flex the reported winds were 9 mph (but obviously not so steady where I was.) Flew my 3.75 M NPW 21 after the Parasksi - and while it was fine in the gusts, rest of the time it preferred sitting on the ground.


Nicely played sir, nicely played. At the 1:15 mark it is possible to clearly see how this kite is strung and it's pretty wild. The whole nose coming off the left side of the bar and the two trailing edge lines coming off the right side. Must be funky to fly compared to other more traditional bridling.

One other (off the mark) question. It is possible to see carabiners on your foot peg bar ends. What are they for? I had three possible ideas: 1) walk of shame strap attachment points; 2) points of attachment for a rack or storage device of some sort; or, 3) attachment point for a tandem buggy setup. Maybe something entirely other than any of those. Enquiring minds want to know!

Randy - 12-5-2018 at 02:16 PM

Thanks guys!

Spencer - if you look close you can see some changes at the fairgrounds. The "road" has been repaved so it is smoother, wider and a bit faster. We lost a little space as they put in a new booth, and some parking spaces closing off our old parking spaces on the bridge over WIndy Hill Rd. On the other side of Windy Hill Rd. they built a new building but it is about the same height and behind the building already there so I don't think it hurts the wind much.

Steve - The 1:15 mark is also when I started riding with the zipper unzipped. You can see the zipper in the sail.

Those carabiners are for towing the buggy out of the car to the launching pad (or for the highly unlikely event of a walk of shame. :D ) Those were on the buggy when I bought it so they must be a good idea.One problem with this field is that it slopes downward from North to South so going upwind with the prevailing NW wind is fairly hard and slow, while riding downwind is fast and easy. The P-flex seems to handle that better than any kite I've used so far.



skimtwashington - 12-6-2018 at 04:20 PM

Weeeee!

Did you adjust bridal setting to right knot when you unzipped?

You should have setting memorized at some point if not already.


Wait for stronger winds to try half storm mode again...but good efforts.:thumbup:

Randy - 12-6-2018 at 05:27 PM

Yes - I did remember to make the bridle adjustments. The half storm mode was interesting. It did fly pretty much the same, but needed more wind to keep going. The adjustments are pretty simple - only two possible knot positions for the A-lines. hoping a suitable day will appear by middle of next week. Until then - rain.

soliver - 12-7-2018 at 10:16 PM

Drove by the fairgrounds today, Randy... you're right!... its a different now! But it doesn't look like they took any of the field.

alf - 12-8-2018 at 04:47 AM

very nice randy
it will be perfect on the sup or kayak

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29746473@N04/32355952808/in/da...

i can still kitewing the tent but i dont know how to attach lines without dammaging the cloth

Randy - 12-8-2018 at 04:26 PM

Some have used the kite on liquid water. I think it needs to be shallow water.












zero gee - 12-8-2018 at 06:19 PM

Local kite buddy used them for years on the water with strapless surfboards 7 to 10 feet. In deep water and waves having fun like everyone else. These kites worked well for him.

Heres a tutorial for making small, light weight high pressure bladders that might improve this type of kites (Paraski Flex, C-quads or other single skins, maybe even open face ram airs too?? ) sea worthiness.

Randy - 12-8-2018 at 06:30 PM

Thanks. What would be really interesting would be a bladder like that instead of the spar.......

Randy - 12-18-2018 at 08:58 AM

Another day for riding the Flex. I'm getting better with completing turns but still miss more than I make. I do fly it one handed a lot with the harness providing the grunt. Once I bailed on the kite but forgot to let go with the hand holding the bar. Thought about reattaching but decided that would be stupid.

I'm learning the problem is you can get it to fly and even pull you without much wind, but directional control requires a certain amount of wind. Below that, once you jibe and apparent wind drops steering control is just not there. So - got to keep it rolling to make a turn.





alf - 12-20-2018 at 06:41 AM

add a boom and kitewing it !
i hav tried with mt tent
stiff enough to add a boom , i can also kite it if i add lines
less than 1 kg

https://www.decathlon.fr/arpenaz-2-pers-verte-id_8293539.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcyZnZZdHKY

Randy - 12-20-2018 at 10:09 AM

Good one alf .:) For some reason, I can't find those tents in the US. I was looking for them for my round kayak sail.


alf - 12-21-2018 at 12:56 PM

i use the double roof and one mast

https://www.decathlon.fr/arpenaz-2-pers-verte-id_8293539.htm...

maybe i make a biplan if i buy another one
should not weights 2 kilo
mast is 385 cm long

Randy - 1-6-2019 at 04:27 PM

I've gotten so interested in the flex concept that I started building a some kites inspired by the Paraskit Flex concept. This kite is only about 1.7 meters, and uses a flexible spar in the leading edge, but is much simpler than the Paraski Flex. First, the shape is simple semi-circle rather than (what appears to be) an elliptical shape in the original. I also used Ian's trick of using a tension line instead of darts to put some shape into the leading edge. Finally, the bridles are completely different. Instead of several cascade bridles (about 24 in total) I used 8 single bridles each at equal angles from the center. The plan is shown in the fist slide in the video, and the bridles all converge to the point on the line below the kite. (Which magically seems to be about right.)

It's very stable, has a nice wind window and flies well either on a 4 line bar or on a simple bar following the original steering method.

Now I think I will build a bigger version of this prototype.



https://vimeo.com/309780824


B-Roc - 1-6-2019 at 05:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
I've gotten so interested in the flex concept that I started building a some kites inspired by the Paraskit Flex concept.
https://vimeo.com/309780824



Impressive :thumbup: :thumbup:

alf - 1-7-2019 at 02:39 PM

what spar do you use ?
i would like to make a big one with tarp , it would spare me buying a peak ...

Randy - 1-7-2019 at 02:58 PM

alf, I just used fiberglass spars about .157 inch (4mm) spars I got from a kitemaking supply shot, but this is a very small kite (1.8 M). I plan to use .19 to .25 inch spars (6 to 8mm) for bigger kites. It takes 4 or 5 depending on the kite size. They are held together with a ferrule. I guess that one could change spars depending on wind strength. I haven't tested the depower capability yet so don't know effective it will be. On short lines I don't think it is needed.

Also, check your u2u.


skimtwashington - 1-7-2019 at 06:09 PM



How is the packing/breakdown...? removeable spars..or it's it's pieces jammed together and sleeve sewn close?


nice work

Randy - 1-7-2019 at 07:26 PM

On the prototype I just put in 3.5 spars held together with ferrules and hot glue, sleeve open on one end but it fits into a closed pocket. Spar can slide in an out, but it is easier to curl it up into a reasonably sized package though. For the 4-5 M I plan to use a better system which will break down into a nice package.

skimtwashington - 1-7-2019 at 08:16 PM

This must be one of the easiest to construct kites...?

As a contrast I would think sewing in bridals throughout interior points/seams -either on a FOIL or SS would require much more finesse in the sewing and more bridaing...I would say.


You could probably loop bridal line around the spar and use the spar to take the load instead of just the SLEEVE's fabric that spar sits in...making it easier sewing and more sturdy( or did you) ?



alf - 1-8-2019 at 04:06 AM

that s what i thought too
for me 7 sqm would be fine it s very powerful and adding a boom i can kitewing it
also i would double skin it like the tent wing the biggest problem it the shape , you hav to cut the tarp and sew ?
simplier a bigger tent but for kw use only , i wouldn t make holes in the double roof

Randy - 1-8-2019 at 08:20 PM

Mine was made into pieces but I think a bigger kite would require more

alf - 1-9-2019 at 03:05 PM

https://www.opapashop.xyz/index.php?main_page=product_info&a...


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uQcAAOSw5EBa6xhS/s-l1600.jpg

much bigger maybe worth a fly

this one is expensive but you can kite is so easely
https://www.outdoorxl.fr/eureka-mosquito-tent-2-persoons.htm...



https://www.amazon.fr/Easy-Camp-Auvent-tente-Orange/dp/B00B8...


https://fr.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-uv-protection-tent-l...


https://fr.eurekaeurope.com/media/catalog/product/cache/13/t...


a strange kitewing....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcmyYOqzYUI


Randy - 1-14-2019 at 06:38 PM

Trying a couple more versions of the flex kite at my asphalt beach over the weekend. These are a bit less than 3.0 M. Already starting on 4.2M This setup with short lines is sort of the thrift store version of a land sailor.


https://vimeo.com/311243091




skimtwashington - 1-14-2019 at 08:08 PM

Good stuff
:thumbup:

One hand control and works well for small area( parking lot strip). These seem to work as good (or better) than the Paraski Flex you modeled it after...!

Keep the quiver coming.


How long to make that kite?

Randy - 1-15-2019 at 06:45 AM

Thanks!

The smaller kites are quite easy to fly one handed, esp. on a low friction surface. I figure they will work quite well on the beach too. The big ones of course provide more power, and are necessary for a grass field. The wind at the lake where I was flying is much smoother than the fairgrounds which probably makes for easier flying as well.

These are very simple kites. Build time for any of these kites is about the same as an NPW. The round kite is maybe only about 2/3 the build time of an NPW because the bridling is so limited. The only complicated part of the build is making the sleeve for the spar.

B-Roc - 1-15-2019 at 07:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Randy  
Thanks!

These are very simple kites. Build time for any of these kites is about the same as an NPW. The round kite is maybe only about 2/3 the build time of an NPW because the bridling is so limited. The only complicated part of the build is making the sleeve for the spar.


I'm impressed :thumbup: :thumbup: :cool:

Pretty cool concept.

I can't even hem a pant leg :(

Randy - 1-15-2019 at 08:32 AM

I've hemmed pant legs a number of times at my wife's insistence - it's harder than anything you do making a kite. :)

alf - 1-15-2019 at 01:00 PM

fantastic
can you boom it for kitewing video ? I use two poles with bungee at both ends

https://www.facebook.com/windwingsports/photos/a.10152512384...

Randy - 1-15-2019 at 02:28 PM

Seems like you could do that, though I don't know how well it would work.

Randy - 1-24-2019 at 11:32 AM

My latest instalment came a few days ago. I used my 3 M first because I thought it was too windy for my now completed "Half Round" 4 M. After the wind dropped I used the 4 but by then it dropped a bit more than I would have liked. Anyway, I'm feeling like the simplified version works well. I got rid of the tension line and instead used seam shaping to put a little curve into the leading edge.

Around the 2:30 mark I completed my first upwind tack (call it a bounce tack - it was no worse than some of my jibes I guess). The only problem is asphalt is really tough on kites. Going to have to figure our what material to use on the leading edge. Until then I need to make sure the kite stays high all the time......

Did I mention it was cold there was ice on the parking lot early in the day.

https://vimeo.com/313079318


alf - 1-25-2019 at 02:45 AM

no more backstall mayebe due to stronger winds ?
why do you have those sins on leading edge ?
upwind tack is more lossing wing shape with nasawing in low winds
is it possible to do a paraskiflex with no sewing ? with 2 tarps with predrilled holes for example

Randy - 1-25-2019 at 05:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by alf  
no more backstall mayebe due to stronger winds ?
why do you have those sins on leading edge ?
upwind tack is more lossing wing shape with nasawing in low winds
is it possible to do a paraskiflex with no sewing ? with 2 tarps with predrilled holes for example


Backstall doesn't seem to be a problem with this kite once there is enough wind to fly and start creating apparent wind.

Not sure what you mean "sins on leading edge" - I reinforced the leading edge with extra fabric because of damage that could happen on asphalt.

No sewing - My first NPW was made with tarp and duct tape instead of sewing. It flew pretty well. It might be possible to make a flex kite, but it would be heavy. You need to use very light tarp. I usually just use tarp for prototypes because it is not very durable. It is very cheap and easy to sew. If the kite flies well, I make a proper version with fabric. Here is a picture of my first prototype - lots of wear on the leading edge.





photow.JPG - 75kB

alf - 1-25-2019 at 12:32 PM

i meant the leading edge has some curves on the 4m wing
maybe on grass the tarp will suffer less
i bought a 2nd hand peak 3 9 m i will street kite it

Randy - 1-25-2019 at 02:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by alf  
i meant the leading edge has some curves on the 4m wing
maybe on grass the tarp will suffer less


I think the curves are because the spars I was using were a bit too thin so the leading edge will pop out some between the bridles. I am getting some thicker spars. I expect the size of the spar will depend on wind strength. I can quickly change spars on this kite.

I think grass is softer, but takes a lot more power so I would probably use the Paraski Flex f10-60 when conditions are right.